Talking in Tongues:

H. Richard · May 5, 2017

It was necessary that speaking in tongues at the beginning was meant to help spread the word to those of different nations. But when time brought about the ability of men to translate languages and to put things in print it is no longer needed.

1 Cor 13:8
8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away.
NKJV

Webers_Home · May 5, 2017

-

Sword said:
you are in danger of hell for calling me a fool.

There was a time when what you accuse me of may have been true, but due
to Christ's resurrection that's true of me no more.

● Rom 4:25 . . He was handed over for our transgressions, and was raised
for our justification.

The koiné Greek word for "justification" is dikaioo (dik-ah-yo'-o) which
essentially means to regard as innocent.

In other words; Christ's crucifixion was sufficient to obtain a pardon for
people's sins; but his resurrection was required in order to make it possible
for God to expunge people's records; otherwise the history of their sins
would hang over people's heads like a sword of Damocles poised to fall on
them at the great white throne event depicted at Rev 20:11-15.

An acquittal can be defined as exoneration; viz: an adjudication of
innocence, which is normally granted when there is insufficient evidence to
convict. In other words: by means of Christ's resurrection, God is able to
clear the books so that it appears people never did anything bad. On the
surface; God's accounting system appears very unethical, but from His
perspective it's all on the up and up.

NOTE: The innocence that I'm talking about isn't a personal innocence, no,
it's an accounted innocence, i.e. an innocence on the books which, in
regards to Rev 20:11-15, is where it matters the most.

Now, the advantage of the kind of acquittal I'm talking about is that
offenders need obtain it only once because from thence, God stops keeping
records on them.

● 2Cor 5:19 . .God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not
counting their trespasses against them

The koiné Greek word translated "counting" is logizomai (log-id'-zom-ahee)
which means to take an inventory.

● Rom 4:8 . . Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord does not record.

Seeing as how every bad thing I ever did in life and/or ever will do is kept
off the record by means of Christ's resurrection; then there will be nothing
left on the books to use as evidence prove beyond a sensible doubt that I
have ever been anything less than 100% perfect in thought, word, and
deed.

● Rom 8:33 . .Who will bring a charge against God’s chosen ones? It is God
who acquits us.

/

Sword · May 5, 2017

Webers_Home said:
-

There was a time when what you accuse me of may have been true, but due
to Christ's resurrection that's true of me no more.

● Rom 4:25 . . He was handed over for our transgressions, and was raised
for our justification.

The koiné Greek word for "justification" is dikaioo (dik-ah-yo'-o) which
essentially means to regard as innocent.

In other words; Christ's crucifixion was sufficient to obtain a pardon for
people's sins; but his resurrection was required in order to make it possible
for God to expunge people's records; otherwise the history of their sins
would hang over people's heads like a sword of Damocles poised to fall on
them at the great white throne event depicted at Rev 20:11-15.

An acquittal can be defined as exoneration; viz: an adjudication of
innocence, which is normally granted when there is insufficient evidence to
convict. In other words: by means of Christ's resurrection, God is able to
clear the books so that it appears people never did anything bad. On the
surface; God's accounting system appears very unethical, but from His
perspective it's all on the up and up.

NOTE: The innocence that I'm talking about isn't a personal innocence, no,
it's an accounted innocence, i.e. an innocence on the books which, in
regards to Rev 20:11-15, is where it matters the most.

Now, the advantage of the kind of acquittal I'm talking about is that
offenders need obtain it only once because from thence, God stops keeping
records on them.

● 2Cor 5:19 . .God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not
counting their trespasses against them

The koiné Greek word translated "counting" is logizomai (log-id'-zom-ahee)
which means to take an inventory.

● Rom 4:8 . . Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord does not record.

Seeing as how every bad thing I ever did in life and/or ever will do is kept
off the record by means of Christ's resurrection; then there will be nothing
left on the books to use as evidence prove beyond a sensible doubt that I
have ever been anything less than 100% perfect in thought, word, and
deed.

● Rom 8:33 . .Who will bring a charge against God’s chosen ones? It is God
who acquits us.

/

Are you allowed to call another man a fool?

H. Richard · May 6, 2017

Sword said:
Are you allowed to call another man a fool?

The Religious mind will always find something in which to burden the hearts of others. But grace is not rule keeping.

The religious simply will not accept that all the sins of people were (past tense) atoned for on the cross when Jesus shed His blood to pay for them. They want others to follow them into unbelief.

worthy · May 6, 2017

Angelina said:
I have been talking with a few friends on-line and they have had some wonderful breakthrough's with the gift of tongues. One situation comes to mind. A friend was on a Christian chat forum and was speaking to a group of people in English about Jesus and his powerful work on the cross. There were many people in the chat room that night and lot's of folks from around the world are able to access it.

This particular night there was a guy there who did not speak English and he listened to this conversation. That night he asked Jesus into his life and the following day he spoke to my friend using an on-line translator. He thanked him for the testimony he shared about Jesus. My friend could not understand how he was able to interpret what had been said but the guy heard this testimony spoken in his own language which is the kind of thing that God does....just because.

Another testimony came up was a story of a woman who was speaking in tongues in her church when a gentleman got up in the pew in front of her and knelt down at the altar. Something that is not done often in that church. When asked later why he felt compelled to do that, he said that the woman behind him [who was speaking in tongues] spoke in ancient Arabic a language which he was familiar with. He knew God was speaking directly to him saying something like "come to the altar and repent of your sins and I will wash you clean. When asked about it, she said she had no idea what she was saying, she just felt moved to speak and out of her mouth came tongues.... :happy0141:

God is so Good!

That's wonderful.

Webers_Home · May 6, 2017

-

grace is not rule keeping.

One thing is for sure about rule-keeping: it's the acid test of one's loyalty.

● 1Cor 14:37 . . If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let
him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the
commandments of The Lord.

● John 14:15 . . If you love me, you will comply with what I command.

● John 14:21 . .Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one
who loves me.

● John 14:23-24 . . If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching . . He who
does not love me will not obey my teaching.

● John 15:14 . .You are my friends if you do as I wish.

/

Sword · May 6, 2017

Webers_Home said:
-

One thing is for sure about rule-keeping: it's the acid test of one's loyalty.

● 1Cor 14:37 . . If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let
him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the
commandments of The Lord.

● John 14:15 . . If you love me, you will comply with what I command.

● John 14:21 . .Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one
who loves me.

● John 14:23-24 . . If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching . . He who
does not love me will not obey my teaching.

● John 15:14 . .You are my friends if you do as I wish.

/

Did you miss my question ?

Are you allowed to call another man a fool?

Webers_Home · May 7, 2017

-
According to Acts 2:4-11, the gift of tongues is supposed to enable the
giftees to be heard in a variety of honest to gosh, real-life languages.

/

H. Richard · May 7, 2017

Webers_Home said:
-

One thing is for sure about rule-keeping: it's the acid test of one's loyalty.

● 1Cor 14:37 . . If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let
him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the
commandments of The Lord.

● John 14:15 . . If you love me, you will comply with what I command.

● John 14:21 . .Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one
who loves me.

● John 14:23-24 . . If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching . . He who
does not love me will not obey my teaching.

● John 15:14 . .You are my friends if you do as I wish.

/

***
When a person places their faith in Jesus work on the cross they are following the commandment given to Paul, for us, under grace. The question is this, are we saved today by law keeping or by faith in the one that kept it for us?

The book of John is still law keeping. It is a record of Jesus' life and what he said TO THE JEWS who were under the law. Why is it that people will not see that there was a time period under the law of Moses and that time period has been set aside so that salvation is for all that will place their faith in what Jesus did on the cross. Under grace it is not law keeping that saves but faith in the work of Jesus on the cross.

ALL, ALL, ALL glory goes to Jesus for salvation. None of it will be shared by men.

Sword · May 7, 2017

Sword said:
Did you miss my question ?

Are you allowed to call another man a fool?

Webers_Home
I asked you a question twice and this is now the third time. Is there a reason you are ignoring it? I am well aware of what Christ has done and who we are in Christ.

Webers_Home · May 7, 2017

-

The question is this, are we saved today by law keeping or by faith in the
one that kept it for us?

Post #46 has nothing to do with getting "saved". It's talking about Christ's
edicts, which are the pathway of fellowship with him and his Father rather
than a path to heaven.

FYI: Some years ago I set out to tally as many of Christ's commandments that I
could find in the New Testament-- beginning in the book of Acts and
concluding in the book of Revelation --stipulating the Lord's rules of conduct
for each and every Christian in the whole world regardless of their
denominational affiliation. To date, I've located upwards of 500; but in this
thread, we only need to be concerned with the ones related to the gift of
tongues.

/

tabletalk · May 7, 2017

Sword said:
Webers_Home
I asked you a question twice and this is now the third time. Is there a reason you are ignoring it? I am well aware of what Christ has done and who we are in Christ.

Is this verse appropriate for your situation?

From Matthew 18:15 "15 “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother."

Try sending a private message to him.

Peace, Brother

Sword · May 7, 2017

tabletalk said:
Is this verse appropriate for your situation?

From Matthew 18:15 "15 “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother."

Try sending a private message to him.

Peace, Brother

He wont asnswer it becuse he knows full well he is wrong. Clearly you are told to call no man a fool. well everyomne but him obviously. PM him? Why He saw it.
He never sinned against me. Hes lying to God and God alone.

Webers_Home · May 8, 2017

-
● 1Cor 13:8-10 . .Whether there be tongues, they shall cease; yada, yada,
yada, yada.

God introduced tongues during the Tower Of Babel incident recorded in Gen
11:1-9. He did that to break up world unification. Apparently it was God's
judgment that world unification in those days was not a good thing. Well;
the language barrier remains in place today; so I'm assuming that world
unification in our day is still not a good thing.

In other words: today's world is an imperfect world. But according to 2Pet
3:1-13 and the 21st chapter of Revelation, a new world order is on its way;
a perfect world that can be trusted with global unification so there will be no
need for a control measure to thwart an all-out proliferation of evil.

But until that perfect world is up and running, there will continue to be a
need for the gift of tongues so that Jesus' followers can fulfill his edict to "Go
into all the world and preach the gospel to everyone everywhere." and to
"Teach them all things whatsoever I have commanded you."

/

Wormwood · May 8, 2017

Webers_Home said:
-
● 1Cor 13:8-10 . .Whether there be tongues, they shall cease; yada, yada,
yada, yada.

God introduced tongues during the Tower Of Babel incident recorded in Gen
11:1-9. He did that to break up world unification. Apparently it was God's
judgment that world unification in those days was not a good thing. Well;
the language barrier remains in place today; so I'm assuming that world
unification in our day is still not a good thing.

In other words: today's world is an imperfect world. But according to 2Pet
3:1-13 and the 21st chapter of Revelation, a new world order is on its way;
a perfect world that can be trusted with global unification so there will be no
need for a control measure to thwart an all-out proliferation of evil.

But until that perfect world is up and running, there will continue to be a
need for the gift of tongues so that Jesus' followers can fulfill his edict to "Go
into all the world and preach the gospel to everyone everywhere." and to
"Teach them all things whatsoever I have commanded you."

/

By that rationale, there are still dead people, so does that mean we should still expect Christians to be able to raise the dead? There are lame and blind people, should Christians be healing the blind and pulling people out of wheelchairs?

These miraculous gifts were "signs." The purpose of the gift was to point to something greater. Jesus' "signs" had a purpose of validating his message. IMO, the early Christians were given the power to perform signs and wonders to validate the message they shared. Once that message had been validated, the need for "signs" no longer existed. Just as the signs and wonders God performed in Egypt and in the desert didn't need to be repeated each year once Israel occupied the land, so the signs validating the message of the resurrection do not need to be continually performed. God calls us to be people of faith, not people that rely on signs perpetually. Paul tells us that tongues is a "sign to unbelievers." Thus, Imo, this miraculous gift that acted as a sign (similar to other miraculous gifts) are no longer needed now that the message of the resurrection has been firmly established.

Sword · May 9, 2017

Wormwood said:
By that rationale, there are still dead people, so does that mean we should still expect Christians to be able to raise the dead? There are lame and blind people, should Christians be healing the blind and pulling people out of wheelchairs?

These miraculous gifts were "signs." The purpose of the gift was to point to something greater. Jesus' "signs" had a purpose of validating his message. IMO, the early Christians were given the power to perform signs and wonders to validate the message they shared. Once that message had been validated, the need for "signs" no longer existed. Just as the signs and wonders God performed in Egypt and in the desert didn't need to be repeated each year once Israel occupied the land, so the signs validating the message of the resurrection do not need to be continually performed. God calls us to be people of faith, not people that rely on signs perpetually. Paul tells us that tongues is a "sign to unbelievers." Thus, Imo, this miraculous gift that acted as a sign (similar to other miraculous gifts) are no longer needed now that the message of the resurrection has been firmly established.

So how do you validate the messgae today. How is it working out for you?

And is this message of the gospel firmly established today?

The churches are dying. Becuase of unbelief

H. Richard · May 9, 2017

Sword said:
So how do you validate the messgae today. How is it working out for you?

And is this message of the gospel firmly established today?

The churches are dying. Becuase of unbelief

***
The churches today are dying because of unbelief in the message of grace. All people are hearing is a message of rule keeping (the Law).

Grace sets people free from the law of sin and death but the religious only burden them to the law. It should be noticed that the world is getting more violent and Jesus said "as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be when I return". If you read about the time of Noah you see that the world was full of violence" as it is today.

As Jesus said, only a few will find the way.

Matt 7:13-14
13 "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.
14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
NKJV

It is very difficult for men/women to place their belief, faith, trust, and confidence in Jesus' shed blood on the cross when the religious mind keeps telling them to place it in something they think they can do.

Sword · May 9, 2017

The chuirches are dying because they have NO power they have NO signs following. its because of unbelief. Theyt are all thinking they are right 45,000 denominations cant be right.

H. Richard · May 9, 2017

Sword said:
The chuirches are dying because they have NO power they have NO signs following. its because of unbelief. Theyt are all thinking they are right 45,000 denominations cant be right.

***
So it is not by faith but by seeing??? There is no need to place faith in what you see.

It is said that faith is not faith unless it has works as a result. Many use the statement “you have to reach out and take it” as an example of having to do the work of taking the free gift of salvation. --- That is the way a man might see it. However;

“Faith is the substance of things not seen:” Heb 11:1-2
1. Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2. For by it the elders obtained a good testimony. NKJV

How can you reach out, with human hands,, and take something that is not seen with the human eye? A child of God does not reach out and take the free gift of salvation, by God’s grace, by physical human actions (works).

An example: ----- A friend of mine knows I need a car to get me to the store and back so he puts his car in my driveway with gas and keys in it. He then calls me to tell me about it. --- I don’t have to look in the driveway to see if there is a car there because I trust in my friend. He wouldn’t tell me it was there if it wasn’t. In other words I have faith, trust, and confidence in my friend. --- The car is a gift, given to me by a friend. It is there ready for me to use. But I don’t need to use it right now. My friend has been a wonderful friend and now I am going to tell everyone I know about him.

----- My friend is Jesus. The car is His salvation and salvation is not a physical thing that can be obtained physically. ---

Two important things to think about:
1. What if my wife tells me “how can I be sure the car is there unless I go and see.” If I listen to her, and go see, then I have lost my faith, trust, confidence in what my friend told me. My efforts to go and see has not proved my faith, “”It has proven my lack of faith.””

2. What if my wife tells me I need to go and pay my friend some money for the rental of his car and I do as she asks? Now I have replaced my friends offer of a gift with a payment and that makes his gift a paid for item. It is no longer a gift. I have put him in the car rental business.

Sword · May 9, 2017

The signs are for unbelivers the seeing is proof for unbelivers. It worked in the begining for Christ and still works today.

Belivers need faith unbelivers need to see something of God.

What your trying to teach me here is for children

And it would be nice if you would let wormwood who i quoted answer for himself.

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