Must Separate.

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Stranger

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I guess you missed it. The answer is, God did not create America to be a godly nation, any more than he created Israel to receive him when he came. The point being...he did just the opposite. A reality you don't seem to be grasping.

There is no mistake in God making America the way he has. Nor is there a mistake in keeping it Christian. The mistake is, to think that we need to do any such thing to fulfill God's will.

A Christian favoring nation would be nice.

As for your instincts, I am not against what you are saying, but for it. I'm just being honest. But you are wrong about your idea of us needing a Christian nation being any need of God's - it's not. He has already overcome the world. All we are seeing now, is just what he said: "nation rising up against nation."

No, I didn't miss it. You never said it.

God did create America for a Godly nation. A Christian nation. And, God did create Israel as a Godly nation. He did not do just the opposite as you claim. The reality you describe is false.

Well, if God made America the way He has, then it is as a Christian nation. If you don't want to do nothing, then don't. Why are you here then posting your opinions? Such hypocrisy.

Yes, a Christian favoring nation would be nice. But, with no help from you. You and others just want to bask in the sacrifice of others who paid the price for such a nation.

Please. You are against what I am saying, because I am against what you are saying. The rest of what you said, makes no sense. What you are saying is, do nothing. Because God will take care of it.

Remember the goat and sheep nations? God will judge them on their faith and actions. God will judge them on what they have done.

Stranger
 

Stranger

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My words are clear and my posts speak for themselves. We simply disagree.

I ceased getting upset about errors a long time ago.

Thanks for the conversation

Well, no kidding we disagree. And you now provide nothing to prove your argument,.

Why do you cease to get upset about errors? Because you make so many of them.

I'm not interested in your thanks.

Stranger
 

ScottA

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No, I didn't miss it. You never said it.

God did create America for a Godly nation. A Christian nation. And, God did create Israel as a Godly nation. He did not do just the opposite as you claim. The reality you describe is false.

Well, if God made America the way He has, then it is as a Christian nation. If you don't want to do nothing, then don't. Why are you here then posting your opinions? Such hypocrisy.

Yes, a Christian favoring nation would be nice. But, with no help from you. You and others just want to bask in the sacrifice of others who paid the price for such a nation.

Please. You are against what I am saying, because I am against what you are saying. The rest of what you said, makes no sense. What you are saying is, do nothing. Because God will take care of it.

Remember the goat and sheep nations? God will judge them on their faith and actions. God will judge them on what they have done.

Stranger
What I am saying is that if you reconcile what you are saying about what God designed America to be (as well as Israel) with the reality of history, then you could begin to understand what God is actually doing, instead of tearing off on some divisive tangent. What you are doing is like Peter speaking to Jesus: Far be it from You, Lord; this shall not happen to America! But, hey, it's not my job to rebuke you (although I do)...so have at it.
 

aspen

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Sorry, I have not been following along with your part of the thread, and that's a big "if"...

We didn't live in a perfect relationship with God. We only need to know the difference between good and evil if we intend to change.

What was missing from our relationship with God in the Garden? What did we need to change?
 

ScottA

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What was missing from our relationship with God in the Garden? What did we need to change?
Well...a lot. But, help me out here. What is the point you wish to make?
 

aspen

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Well...a lot. But, help me out here. What is the point you wish to make?

I believe humanity and God had a perfect relationship in the Garden and reconciliation through Jesus is a call back to a Garden relationship. It seems that you disagree so I asking for specific problems that you see with the Garden relationship.
 

ScottA

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I believe humanity and God had a perfect relationship in the Garden and reconciliation through Jesus is a call back to a Garden relationship. It seems that you disagree so I asking for specific problems that you see with the Garden relationship.
Okay. So...to play devil's advocate, just as Satan pointed out, their/our eyes were not opened, and they/we were not like God, knowing good and evil. I would not now put it as he put it, but I guess we lacked the "fullness" that was/is shared by the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

PS, But, hey, better tell me how this relates to the topic (or we will be hijacking it).
 

aspen

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Okay. So...to play devil's advocate, just as Satan pointed out, their/our eyes were not opened, and they/we were not like God, knowing good and evil. I would not now put it as he put it, but I guess we lacked the "fullness" that was/is shared by the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

PS, But, hey, better tell me how this relates to the topic (or we will be hijacking it).

Let's start a new thread.
 

Stranger

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What I am saying is that if you reconcile what you are saying about what God designed America to be (as well as Israel) with the reality of history, then you could begin to understand what God is actually doing, instead of tearing off on some divisive tangent. What you are doing is like Peter speaking to Jesus: Far be it from You, Lord; this shall not happen to America! But, hey, it's not my job to rebuke you (although I do)...so have at it.

I do understand what God is actually doing. Do you?

Division is of God. Always has been. For the purpose of protecting His people and curbing wickedness in the world.

Who divided the earth? (Gen.10:25)

Who brought about Babel to divide the people? And for what purpose? (Gen.11:1-9)

Who divided the tribes of Israel? (2Chron. 11:3-4)

Who divided families? (Matt. 10:34-36)

Your rebuke has no weight unless you can prove it in the Scripture.

Stranger
 

ScottA

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I do understand what God is actually doing. Do you?

Division is of God. Always has been. For the purpose of protecting His people and curbing wickedness in the world.

Who divided the earth? (Gen.10:25)

Who brought about Babel to divide the people? And for what purpose? (Gen.11:1-9)

Who divided the tribes of Israel? (2Chron. 11:3-4)

Who divided families? (Matt. 10:34-36)

Your rebuke has no weight unless you can prove it in the Scripture.

Stranger
Matthew 19:6
"Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.
 

Wormwood

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Well, my political beliefs do not supersede my religious beliefs or values either. But I have them, just like you have them. And, I am not 'ranting' or 'raving'. Simply stating my opinion. See, it's only a rant or rave because you disagree politically.

Concerning my grammar...you understood what I was saying. Therefore it accomplished it's purpose. Yes you offer your vote and opinion because the government gives you that freedom. And, guess what, the government gives me the right to give my opinions also, at least for now. But that can change, and is changing now. People who voted for Trump and conservative values are now seen as 'deplorables' . You see. It is not that they are just against the candidate, they are against the voter also. This voter is full of hate and doesn't represent the 'American values'. The attempt of the media and left is to intimidate the conservative voter through media bullying and violence.

You say if you were under a government that didn't have that freedom you would not seek to shed blood to change it. I believe what I said was that we need to separate to allow both sides to live under the type of rule they want.

Maybe you should realize that everyone that is in the military serves the military towards it's objective, irregardless if you are infantry or non-combatant. And, no one forced you into the military to do that. You chose. Meaning again, you answer directly to the President of the U.S, because he is your Commander in Chief. And you have an American flag in front of your church. That flag represents freedom to abortions. Freedom for homosexuals to be in your military. Freedom to remove Christian symbols from State and Federal courthouses and schools. Do these things dishonor God? Yet you speak of me as allowing politics to supersede my Christianity.

I didn't ask if you would be shooting people in the American Revolution. I asked whose side you would have been on? As I have said before, it's a good thing the early Christians who made up this country, knew what they were about.

Stranger

I don't know how you can say I am arguing only because I disagree politically. I didn't even know what your political views are or what political parties you support until your last post.

Clearly I didn't understand what you were saying or there wouldn't have been the confusion to begin with.

Well, if the civil war taught us anything, its that this country is not going to simply allow states to secede due to disagreements between political parties.

Well, many of the founding fathers were Deists. And again, I am not going to point my finger at the Christian forefathers either. I am just saying that which side I would have been pulling for is irrelevant. You are discussing active "must separate" agendas and not passive observances. I think there is a big difference.
 

Stranger

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Matthew 19:6
"Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.

Good verse concerning divorce and sex between a husband and a wife. Has nothing to do with a people dividing or being divided in order to be free from the wickedness of the world.

Stranger
 

ScottA

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Good verse concerning divorce and sex between a husband and a wife. Has nothing to do with a people dividing or being divided in order to be free from the wickedness of the world.

Stranger
Luke 16:10
10 “Whoever can be trusted with very little can also be trusted with much, and whoever is dishonest with very little will also be dishonest with much.

Godly principles are godly principles, and in this case, a union is a union and United is united. Applying the principle is a choice.
 

Stranger

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Luke 16:10
10 “Whoever can be trusted with very little can also be trusted with much, and whoever is dishonest with very little will also be dishonest with much.

Godly principles are godly principles, and in this case, a union is a union and United is united. Applying the principle is a choice.

One can misapply a Godly principle also. Usually done in two ways. 1.) A wrong interpretation of Scripture verses can only lead to wrong application of the verses. 2.) Having a correct interpretation of the verse but then misapplying it. So, misapplying a Scriptural principle is also a choice.

I have showed in post #69 that division is of God. Just because people and nations are united at times, in no way indicates any perpetual unity by God. And the union between a man and a woman has nothing to do with it.

Stranger
 

ScottA

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One can misapply a Godly principle also. Usually done in two ways. 1.) A wrong interpretation of Scripture verses can only lead to wrong application of the verses. 2.) Having a correct interpretation of the verse but then misapplying it. So, misapplying a Scriptural principle is also a choice.

I have showed in post #69 that division is of God. Just because people and nations are united at times, in no way indicates any perpetual unity by God. And the union between a man and a woman has nothing to do with it.

Stranger
I have tried to express my agreement in the basic principle of separation as it applies to the end goal, as the dividing of light and darkness and good form evil, telling you that that is God's part not ours. Also, that history is full of examples where men have taken it upon themselves, with and without regard for God...and that Christ has not sent us out in peace, but a sword. But using your own justification that it was God who formed this a godly/Christian nation, under those circumstances I recommend yielding to God to separate, rather than men. For if God has formed it, it is his place and not ours.

If you disagree, you take what God has formed on as the domain of men...and if you do so, then history is on you.

On the other hand, if you have heard from God to "go out"...then go out. If not...well, it would not be advised.
 

Stranger

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I have tried to express my agreement in the basic principle of separation as it applies to the end goal, as the dividing of light and darkness and good form evil, telling you that that is God's part not ours. Also, that history is full of examples where men have taken it upon themselves, with and without regard for God...and that Christ has not sent us out in peace, but a sword. But using your own justification that it was God who formed this a godly/Christian nation, under those circumstances I recommend yielding to God to separate, rather than men. For if God has formed it, it is his place and not ours.

If you disagree, you take what God has formed on as the domain of men...and if you do so, then history is on you.

On the other hand, if you have heard from God to "go out"...then go out. If not...well, it would not be advised.

Understand, we do not agree. You have tried to say you and I agree. But, we do not agree, on this subject, and more than likely any other.

You said before that God has not created America as a Godly nation, because I used it as an example of how at times it is necessary to separate from the wicked world. And now you say we should let division come from God and not man. This means at the least, you now recognize God divides.

In my examples given in post #69, the first two were by God alone. The last two were by God and man. You want to play the role of a pacifist. Wash your hands. Let others do it. All the while, posturing yourself as 'yielding to god'.

God did form America. And He used believing men to do it. But not with men like you. He formed it with men who were willing to play the role of men as believers. Men who knew their God. Who knew there is a price to be paid. And if the nation is to be saved, it will take men like that again.

Stranger
 

bbyrd009

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Understand, we do not agree. You have tried to say you and I agree. But, we do not agree, on this subject, and more than likely any other.

You said before that God has not created America as a Godly nation, because I used it as an example of how at times it is necessary to separate from the wicked world. And now you say we should let division come from God and not man. This means at the least, you now recognize God divides.

In my examples given in post #69, the first two were by God alone. The last two were by God and man. You want to play the role of a pacifist. Wash your hands. Let others do it. All the while, posturing yourself as 'yielding to god'.

God did form America. And He used believing men to do it. But not with men like you. He formed it with men who were willing to play the role of men as believers. Men who knew their God. Who knew there is a price to be paid. And if the nation is to be saved, it will take men like that again.

Stranger
unfortunately imo you have conflated "nation" with "country"--or of course they do that, and you just bought it--and so now of course "service" becomes to your "country" somehow, along with all of the other distortions that will cause.

You characterize that as "washing your hands," which i was going to dispute too, but actually that is an apt metaphor for "leave the world" i guess.
 

bbyrd009

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I do understand what God is actually doing. Do you?
ha cmon, pray it with me, Stranger, i know it by heart myself;

"Dearest lord, we, Me and Stranger--and possibly a couple others, but maybe not--thank you that we are not like all these other Catholic tax collector types, no, but we are your Special Snowflakes--but Me first of course--Whom you have chosen to impart your wisdom to...

:lol
 

bbyrd009

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