Jesus Before His Incarnation

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JesusIsFaithful

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John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.......46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

The above references is Jesus saying that He was the Lord that was seen by men in the O.T. .

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

This reference above is referring to man not having seen God the Father but the Son has. Again below;

John 6:46Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

No man has seen the Father, and so when the Lord appeared to men in the O.T., this was the Son of God appearing unto men.

He appeared unto Abraham.

Genesis 12:7And the Lord appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto the Lord, who appeared unto him.

Genesis 17:1And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

Genesis 18:1And the Lord appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;

He appeared unto Isaac.

Genesis 26:1 And there was a famine in the land, beside the first famine that was in the days of Abraham. And Isaac went unto Abimelech king of the Philistines unto Gerar. 2 And the Lord appeared unto him, and said, Go not down into Egypt; dwell in the land which I shall tell thee of: 3 Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father;

He appeared unto Jacob;

Genesis 32:24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.26 And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me. 27 And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob. 28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. 29 And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

He appeared unto Moses;

Exodus 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you. 15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, the Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.16 Go, and gather the elders of Israel together, and say unto them, The Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob, appeared unto me, saying, I have surely visited you, and seen that which is done to you in Egypt:

So before His incarnation, Jesus was the God that men had seen in the Old Testament that Moses had written about as led by the Holy Ghost.

2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

The Word of God is the Creator by Whom all things were made by.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.....10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

This is the testimony of Jesus before His incarnation as the God men had seen. Amen.

 
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101G

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GINOLJC, to JesusIsFaithfu.
So before His incarnation, Jesus was the God that men had seen in the Old Testament that Moses had written about as led by the Holy Ghost.
this is correct, in appearance ONLY, then in flesh and bone "MANIFESTED". for appearance is not the same as a MANIFESTATION. so I agree. and may I add this scripture for support, 1 Peter 1:10 & 11 "Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: 11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow". all OT prophets made a similar statement like this "The WORD of the LORD came unto me", or in like Manner. and the WORD is the Lord Jesus, (John 1:1). so the apostle Peter made it clear that the Lord Jesus, (the Spirit) was IN, IN, IN, them and no flesh and bone is "IN" someone else, it was the Spirit in them the Lord Jesus before his incarnation.
 

JesusIsFaithful

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GINOLJC, to JesusIsFaithfu.

this is correct, in appearance ONLY, then in flesh and bone "MANIFESTED". for appearance is not the same as a MANIFESTATION. so I agree. and may I add this scripture for support, 1 Peter 1:10 & 11 "Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: 11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow". all OT prophets made a similar statement like this "The WORD of the LORD came unto me", or in like Manner. and the WORD is the Lord Jesus, (John 1:1). so the apostle Peter made it clear that the Lord Jesus, (the Spirit) was IN, IN, IN, them and no flesh and bone is "IN" someone else, it was the Spirit in them the Lord Jesus before his incarnation.

Jacob wrestled with a man; thus flesh and blood Whom happened to be the Lord before His incarnation.

Abraham & Sarah prepared a meal for Him and the other two that were with Him and they had eaten in Genesis 18th chapter.

We were created in the image of God; and so therefore His incarnation was for becoming as a regular but perfect man that can give His life as a ransom for many by taking on our sins on the cross and die in our place.

Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

2 Corinthians 5: 21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
 

101G

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Jacob wrestled with a man; thus flesh and blood Whom happened to be the Lord before His incarnation.

Abraham & Sarah prepared a meal for Him and the other two that were with Him and they had eaten in Genesis 18th chapter.
first, thanks for the reply, Yes, and also the Spirit, (which is abstract) lifted Ezekiel, 3:12 "Then the spirit took me up, and I heard behind me a voice of a great rushing, saying, Blessed be the glory of the LORD from his place". and this was in vision(s). God spoke to moses in the burning bush. and in the NT, our Lord after his resurrection "appeared" unto his disciples in bodily form, and did eat. so without any detail, I'll make the difference clear as possible. in an appearance it is done in second person, meaning through another entity, object, or thing. a Manifestation is FIRST person without another entity, object, or thing, but the source of the manifestation itself.

hope that helped.
 

101G

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Now for the second half of your question,
We were created in the image of God; and so therefore His incarnation was for becoming as a regular but perfect man that can give His life as a ransom for many by taking on our sins on the cross and die in our place.

Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
The IMAGE of God is another in figure, meaning God in flesh. using your scripture, there are two state to the Lord Jesus, but one nature. "Form" here in Phil 2:6 is NATURE, which is G3444 μορφή morphe. I ask you what is the NATURE of God? that's right Spirit, but he TOOK PART in, and was not a PARTAKER in, flesh and bone, (see verse 7 & 8)
 

VictoryinJesus

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Love (Joshua 5: 13-15) "And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries?
And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the Lord am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my Lord unto his servant?
And the captain of the Lord's host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so."
 

JesusIsFaithful

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Now for the second half of your question,

The IMAGE of God is another in figure, meaning God in flesh. using your scripture, there are two state to the Lord Jesus, but one nature. "Form" here in Phil 2:6 is NATURE, which is G3444 μορφή morphe. I ask you what is the NATURE of God? that's right Spirit, but he TOOK PART in, and was not a PARTAKER in, flesh and bone, (see verse 7 & 8)

Jesus was a celestial man before He became a terrestrial man to die for us.

When the Word of God had asked the other Two Witnesses of God to create man in "their" image", it does testify that the Father has a celestial image too by which the One God created man in His image.

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

By having 3 Divine Witnesses within the One God, that was how man was created in the image of God by the Word of God just as it is required of man to have two or three other witnesses to establish a word or a testimony and that is what God basically did in creation.

The testimony in John 4:24 was not about saying that God is Spirit only, but to testify in context that God is not confined no longer to a place on earth to go to in order to worship the Father.

John 4:19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Now that we have been saved, our bodies are the temples of the Holy Spirit and we can come to God the Father anywhere on earth by way of the Son in honoring the Son in worship & thereby honoring the Father which is what the indwelling Holy Spirit & scripture will lead believers to do the Father's will.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

So "God is Spirit" is just a testimony to His Omnipresence; because the Father does have an image from which man was also created after, and one day, we will not need Jesus as our Mediator in being inbetween us and the Father for when we are perfect by the Son, we can go directly to the Father.

John 16:25 These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father.26 At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.
 
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101G

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When the Word of God had asked the other Two Witnesses of God to create man in "their" image", it does testify that the Father has a celestial image too by which the One God created man in His image.
the Father have a celestial image too?, have you read Jeremiah 23:23 & 24, if not you should.

The testimony in John 4:24 was not about saying that God is Spirit only, but to testify in context that God is not confined no longer to a place on earth to go to in order to worship the Father.
ok, please tell us what "form" God have, Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God". please tell us what is the FORM of God is. I'll be waiting for that answer.
 

JesusIsFaithful

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the Father have a celestial image too?, have you read Jeremiah 23:23 & 24, if not you should.

Jeremiah 23:23 Am I a God at hand, saith the Lord, and not a God afar off? 24 Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the Lord. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the Lord.

In context of that chapter, it hardly testifies to God being without a celestial image. He can be omnipresence and still have a celestial image.

Did not Jesus knew there was Nathanael under the fig tree before He saw him?

John 1:48 Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee. 49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel. 50 Jesus answered and said unto him, Because I said unto thee, I saw thee under the fig tree, believest thou? thou shalt see greater things than these.

ok, please tell us what "form" God have, Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God". please tell us what is the FORM of God is. I'll be waiting for that answer.

The form of God is man since we were created in the image of God. Discern this with His help: when did He thought it not robbery to be equal with God? When He was in the likeness of men. Otherwise, where is the robbery if Paul was referring to His former celestial state before His incarnation?

Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

And Jesus prophesied that one day we will see the Father when we will not need Jesus to pray for us or intercede for us because the Father loves us as well.

John 16:25 These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father.26 At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.
 

101G

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n context of that chapter, it hardly testifies to God being without a celestial image. He can be omnipresence and still have a celestial image.

Did not Jesus knew there was Nathanael under the fig tree before He saw him?
GINOLJC, first thanks for your reply. and to it hogwash. omnipresent is just what I said in Jeremiah 23:23 & 24 God is Spirit, do you know what that means?. 1 John 4:12 "No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us". and please don't use the "when you have seen Jesus you have see the FATHER bid". because when you see the sun you see the father, when you see the sky you see the father, the earth itself, for he's the Creator of it all. for when you see the "WORKS" yes you see the FATHER, and he was standing right in front of them when he made that statement. scripture, John 1:10 "He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not". what a shame. ... oh well
scripture, Romans 1:19 "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse". so you are reproved.
The form of God is man since we were created in the image of God
another ERROR on your part, let's correct this error quickly. you used Philippians 2:6. "form" here is G3444 μορφή morphe (mor-fee') which means, fundamental nature, and the nature of God is Spirit. let the scriptures correct you, 1 Corinthians 15:46 "Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven". get that JesusIsFaithful. understand, natural life can only produce temporary life, only the Spirit can give ETERNAL LIFE. that's why Isaiah said in 9:6 that son that child is the "EVERLASTING" and get this FATHER. only "SHARED" is he called Son.
now let diversified Oneness tell you what the NATURE of our Lord Jesus have. using the same scripture, Philippians 2:6 the scripture says "BEING" present tense in the FORM. so we KNOW that our Lord Jesus nature is Spirit, because God is a Spirit, but how? the answer is found in the root of G3444 μορφή morphe) which is G3313 μέρος meros (me'-ros) and G3313 μέρος meros means a 1. portion. 2. share. 3. division. this definition gives us the nature of our Lord Jesus. see he the "SHARE" as definition #2 states, as well as definition #1, for another word for portion is "share. our Lord Jesus is the EQUAL "SHARE" of the Spirit veiled in flesh and blood. meaning exactly what G243 allos states, a numerical difference "with" the same NATURE. how easy was that, only if we ask will God give us the answers. so that's two strikes already, again don't let it be a third. well lets see, because you also said,
And Jesus prophesied that one day we will see the Father when we will not need Jesus to pray for us or intercede for us because the Father loves us as well.
How true can you get, but no cigar. listen, Revelation 22:3 "And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: {now listen to verse 4 real good} 4 "And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads". did you hear that, just in case you didn't the scripture states see "HIS" face, not "THEIR" faces. not "THEIR" names will be in our foreheads, but "HIS" name. now lets see who NAME will be in our fore heads. Revelation 3:12 "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

did you hear that, his NAME, not THEIR name, but HIS name will he write upon our foreheads.

My God how clear can one get. did you see how he used the phrase "my God" for HIMSELF. listen he's saying "my Spirit", for God is a Spirit.... (smile). oh the beauty of diversity.

JesusIsFaithful, I don't mean to be rude here, but you need to come to the table better informed, ok.
 

JesusIsFaithful

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GINOLJC, first thanks for your reply. and to it hogwash. omnipresent is just what I said in Jeremiah 23:23 & 24 God is Spirit, do you know what that means?. 1 John 4:12 "No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us". and please don't use the "when you have seen Jesus you have see the FATHER bid". because when you see the sun you see the father, when you see the sky you see the father, the earth itself, for he's the Creator of it all. for when you see the "WORKS" yes you see the FATHER, and he was standing right in front of them when he made that statement. scripture, John 1:10 "He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not". what a shame. ... oh well

John 1st chapter testifies to the Word of God as the Creator of the universe and reality we live in. I believe your anti-Trinitarian doctrine is preventing you from seeing that.

scripture, Romans 1:19 "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse". so you are reproved.

When Jesus was hanging on the cross and had experienced that separation from the Father, there was an unexplainable darkness over the land. As the Passover was approaching and it was common knowledge that the full moon always accompanies the time of the Passover, there was no light from the full moon either, albeit a secular historian, Thallus, made that errant assumption regarding the cause of the darkness whereas another but christian historian testified that Thallus was in error and this highly unlikely because of the full moon at Passover. In ANY event, I testify that the light from the stars were also not shining during that unexplainable darkness because our Creator had taken our sins upon Himself on the cross from which He not only experienced the separation from the Father, but creation as well because the lights from the heavens went out.

Only our Creator can be our Redeemer. He Whom has created us can be the only One that can fix us. He Who began a good work in us.....

another ERROR on your part, let's correct this error quickly. you used Philippians 2:6. "form" here is G3444 μορφή morphe (mor-fee') which means, fundamental nature, and the nature of God is Spirit. let the scriptures correct you, 1 Corinthians 15:46 "Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven". get that JesusIsFaithful. understand, natural life can only produce temporary life, only the Spirit can give ETERNAL LIFE. that's why Isaiah said in 9:6 that son that child is the "EVERLASTING" and get this FATHER. only "SHARED" is he called Son.

It is the Son that gives life.

John 6:32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. 34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread. 35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

If you use John 6:63 & 2 Corinthians 3:6, as a testimony that the Spirit gives life, then you are using the wrong version which is in error. The KJV and a few other modern Bibles has kept the correct testimony of the non-capitalized spirit because those verses were not about the Holy Spirit, but a vital principle or a mental disposition.

now let diversified Oneness tell you what the NATURE of our Lord Jesus have. using the same scripture, Philippians 2:6 the scripture says "BEING" present tense in the FORM. so we KNOW that our Lord Jesus nature is Spirit, because God is a Spirit, but how? the answer is found in the root of G3444 μορφή morphe) which is G3313 μέρος meros (me'-ros) and G3313 μέρος meros means a 1. portion. 2. share. 3. division. this definition gives us the nature of our Lord Jesus. see he the "SHARE" as definition #2 states, as well as definition #1, for another word for portion is "share. our Lord Jesus is the EQUAL "SHARE" of the Spirit veiled in flesh and blood. meaning exactly what G243 allos states, a numerical difference "with" the same NATURE. how easy was that, only if we ask will God give us the answers. so that's two strikes already, again don't let it be a third. well lets see, because you also said,

1 John 5:7 regarding the three Witnesses in Heaven as the three are one has been confirmed by earlier extra biblical writing as having been part of original scripture as far back as 200 - 258 A.D. Scroll down 3/4 of the page to see the list of evidence of extrabiblical writings citing 1 John 5:7.

1 John 5:7 and the Record in Heaven

How true can you get, but no cigar. listen, Revelation 22:3 "And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: {now listen to verse 4 real good} 4 "And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads". did you hear that, just in case you didn't the scripture states see "HIS" face, not "THEIR" faces. not "THEIR" names will be in our foreheads, but "HIS" name.

That is just talking about Jesus, not the Father.

Explain the calling for the act of creation.

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Now note verse 27 when One God performed the act by Himself. That means no angels helped Him. Nothing else helped Him. He spoke. And it was done, but yet when requesting the act of creating man, God spoke to Who when only the One God created man?

Again we find the same thing when scattering the people at the tower of Babylon.

Here is one for the N.T.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

There is a plurality within that One God for God to establish a word in creation and to be able to judge anyone. God is not switching hats as if He is a One Person God, but the One God is consisting of Three Persons as in Three Witnesses within that One God.

Yes.. the Holy Spirit has to count as a separate Witness in combining with my singular witness of the Son for that witness to be true.

John 8:17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: 27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

Jesus deferred from Himself by referring to what the Father will do and deferred from Himself in telling us what the Holy Spirit will do. So You cannot place the Father, the Son, & the Holy Ghost as a One Person God exchanging titles or wearing different hats whatever for God is a Triune God.
 

JesusIsFaithful

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now lets see who NAME will be in our fore heads.

Scripture left out of quote for you to see better.

Revelation 3:12 "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name."

did you hear that, his NAME, not THEIR name, but HIS name will he write upon our foreheads.

The city of God will come down from heaven from where the Son of God, the Lord Jesus Christ, shall reign as King of kings. God the Father will still be in Heaven.

My God how clear can one get. did you see how he used the phrase "my God" for HIMSELF. listen he's saying "my Spirit", for God is a Spirit.... (smile). oh the beauty of diversity.

So is the city a God too? Because the name of the city of God will be on his forehead too; hence New Jerusalem. What is Jesus really saying? That the resurrected saints that He has to overcome their sins for them, in coming out of the great tribulation, will be representing Him all over the earth as they will never sin against the Lord again, being made a pillar to never depart from his God ever again by sinning.

JesusIsFaithful, I don't mean to be rude here, but you need to come to the table better informed, ok.

The Lord is helping me to forgive you for you know not what you do.

Here is another edification for you. Invisible does not mean that you cannot see God at all. It just means not presently seen.

Colossians 1:Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Most readers thinks God is invisible from this verse alone, but Jesus cannot have an image if God is invisible. To clarify the use of invisible more..

1 Timothy 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. 17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Paul is writing to Timothy and referring to Jesus Christ as that invisible King which is proof since we know He is not invisible and therefore Paul is meaning not presently seen.

I can only hope in Christ Jesus that He will help you see the truth in His words & set you free from Oneness Pentecostalism as being another gospel.
 

101G

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John 1st chapter testifies to the Word of God as the Creator of the universe and reality we live in. I believe your anti-Trinitarian doctrine is preventing you from seeing that.
#1. yes the Lord Jesus is the CREATOR I said that, so you're mute to that question.
#2. "I believe your anti-Trinitarian doctrine is preventing you from seeing that".don't put words in my mouth, keep any anti-Trinitarian beliefs to yourself, thanks.
#3. "Only our Creator can be our Redeemer". THIS IS TRUE, out of your own mouth you have confirmed diversity oneness. and then you said, "It is the Son that gives life". so are you saying there are two who give life? scripture, Deuteronomy 32:39 "See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand".
JesusIsFaithful, are you saying that there are two who give life, please answer.
 

JesusIsFaithful

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#1. yes the Lord Jesus is the CREATOR I said that, so you're mute to that question.

If I misunderstood you, it was because of your post #10 here... "because when you see the sun you see the father, when you see the sky you see the father, the earth itself, for he's the Creator of it all. for when you see the "WORKS" yes you see the FATHER," . It kinda read to me you were saying that the Father is the Creator, but obviously, as per this reply to me, you had meant otherwise. Okay.

#2. "I believe your anti-Trinitarian doctrine is preventing you from seeing that".don't put words in my mouth, keep any anti-Trinitarian beliefs to yourself, thanks.

Are you representing Oneness Pentecostalism? Then that is not testifying to the Triune God, right? So.. to me that is anti-Trinitarian.

#3. "Only our Creator can be our Redeemer". THIS IS TRUE, out of your own mouth you have confirmed diversity oneness. and then you said, "It is the Son that gives life". so are you saying there are two who give life? scripture, Deuteronomy 32:39 "See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand".

That was the Word of God talking in Deuteronomy 32:39 as Jesus is the God men had seen before His incarnation which is what this thread is about.

JesusIsFaithful, are you saying that there are two who give life, please answer.

Jesus is the One that gives life in the O.T. & the N.T. He is the Creator and therefore He gives life to the world and gives eternal life to believers.
 

101G

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If I misunderstood you, it was because of your post #10 here... "because when you see the sun you see the father, when you see the sky you see the father, the earth itself, for he's the Creator of it all. for when you see the "WORKS" yes you see the FATHER," . It kinda read to me you were saying that the Father is the Creator, but obviously, as per this reply to me, you had meant otherwise. Okay.
It kinda read to me you were saying that the Father is the Creator, yes, because the Lord Jesus is the FATHER, as a matter of "THE EVERLASTING FATHER" supportive scripture, Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace". I understand you have no knowledge of God TITLES of "Father" and "Son". it's not biological. now let me asks this again, is the Lord Jesus the "only" one person who have immortality YES or NO. your answer please, just re-read Isaiah 9:6 before you answer.
 

101G

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Are you representing Oneness Pentecostalism? Then that is not testifying to the Triune God, right? So.. to me that is anti-Trinitarian.
Let me make this very clear. no I'm not representing Oneness Pentecostalism, let me say it again, I'm not representing Oneness Pentecostalism. My doctoral beliefs is "diversified oneness".

second response, No I'm not anti-Trinitarian. just pro "diversity" oneness.
 

JesusIsFaithful

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Let me make this very clear. no I'm not representing Oneness Pentecostalism, let me say it again, I'm not representing Oneness Pentecostalism. My doctoral beliefs is "diversified oneness".

second response, No I'm not anti-Trinitarian. just pro "diversity" oneness.

Thanks for clearing that up. I must have misunderstood you, but I do not believe we are still not on the same page.
 

101G

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GINOLJC, first thanks for the response.
Thanks for clearing that up. I must have misunderstood you, but I do not believe we are still not on the same page.
this is true. I agree that the Lord Jesus is the only true God in the OT as well as the NT. what we disagree on is PERSON(S). we both know that he is the Spirit in the OT, but I believe what at odds is the NT. I'm of the belief THAT God diversified himself in flesh. hence the reason why I believe this, John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven". this one verse clearly states two entities of the same nature, but what make me differ from you and the oneness Pentecostal is simply this. the share of God is in heaven and on earth at the same time, (THAT'S THE STICKING POINT). those who believe in three individuals believe that the Lord Jesus (the Son) is a "Separate" person from whom many say is the Father. that's a division and God is not divided. here is the crucial point, the bible clearly states God is a H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym
meaning a plurality. but what kind of plurality? we both agree that there are more than one, but we differ as to how God is ONE. you say he's separate "persons". but consider this. what if he not Separate persons, but the equal "share" of himself in flesh and bone. consider that for a monument. that would clearly answer the Titus 2:10 & the Titus 2:13 question.

so may I ask you a question. Isaiah 43:11 "I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour". here is the Father speaking, (the LORD, all caps). and we know that the Lord Jesus (the Son) is the SAVIOUR, but it's the LORD, all cap speaking so how can you reconcile this verse. I'll be waiting for your answer.

if not sure how to answer, read the post again.
 

JesusIsFaithful

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GINOLJC, first thanks for the response.

this is true. I agree that the Lord Jesus is the only true God in the OT as well as the NT. what we disagree on is PERSON(S). we both know that he is the Spirit in the OT, but I believe what at odds is the NT. I'm of the belief THAT God diversified himself in flesh. hence the reason why I believe this, John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven". this one verse clearly states two entities of the same nature, but what make me differ from you and the oneness Pentecostal is simply this. the share of God is in heaven and on earth at the same time, (THAT'S THE STICKING POINT). those who believe in three individuals believe that the Lord Jesus (the Son) is a "Separate" person from whom many say is the Father. that's a division and God is not divided. here is the crucial point, the bible clearly states God is a H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym
meaning a plurality. but what kind of plurality? we both agree that there are more than one, but we differ as to how God is ONE. you say he's separate "persons". but consider this. what if he not Separate persons, but the equal "share" of himself in flesh and bone. consider that for a monument. that would clearly answer the Titus 2:10 & the Titus 2:13 question.

Jesus said He cannot bear witness of Himself, otherwise His witness cannot be true. John 5:31

Jesus said that to be a true witness, the witness has to seek the glory of the other in testimony; that witness cannot speak of himself in seeking his own glory otherwise that witness has unrighteousness in him. John 7:18

The law says that the witness of two individuals makes a true testimony. John 8:17

Isaiah 48:16-17 prophesied to the Two Witnesses of the One God that shall sent the Lord God that is speaking.

Matthew 3:15-17 has the Father & the Holy Spirit bearing witnesses from Heaven that Jesus is God. So even God has to have 2 Divine Witnesses within that One God in testifying of Jesus as God to make that testimony from Heaven true.

They cannot be the same Person because only the Son of God, Jesus, died on the cross. God the Father remains Holy during that time for Jesus to experience the separation from the Father when He took our sins upon Himself on the cross.

1 John 5:7 is originally part of scripture and testifies to the three Witnesses in Heaven as to why in 1 John 5:9 the witness of God is greater then men.

John 5:22-23 testifies that the Father judges no man; and yet renders all judgment unto the Son. How can that be if they are the same Person when the One God will judge? How can the One Person God judge unless there are two other Witnesses within the One God?

You agree that there is a plurality but a diversity within the One God sharing everything when Jesus dying on the cross testified that it cannot be.

so may I ask you a question. Isaiah 43:11 "I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour". here is the Father speaking, (the LORD, all caps). and we know that the Lord Jesus (the Son) is the SAVIOUR, but it's the LORD, all cap speaking so how can you reconcile this verse. I'll be waiting for your answer.

That was not the Father speaking. That was the Word of God speaking before His incarnation. It was the Word of God speaking in Isaiah 48:16-17 that the Lord God and His Spirit sent Him; and so it was the Word of God speaking in Isaiah 43:11

if not sure how to answer, read the post again.

I am not sure how to answer clearly to clarify how I differentiate from you but hopefully, the Lord will explain it better to you even if you do not agree with my belief.
 

101G

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Jesus said He cannot bear witness of Himself, otherwise His witness cannot be true. John 5:31
Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God". a share are "TWO"
Jesus said that to be a true witness, the witness has to seek the glory of the other in testimony; that witness cannot speak of himself in seeking his own glory otherwise that witness has unrighteousness in him. John 7:18
did he not send the diversity or the Share of himself, see Isaiah 35:4, and backed up in Isaiah 9:6
They cannot be the same Person because only the Son of God, Jesus, died on the cross. God the Father remains Holy during that time for Jesus to experience the separation from the Father when He took our sins upon Himself on the cross.
died how? from flesh, a NATURAL death, the Loss of blood. see Lev 17:11 & 14
NOW THANK YOU,
That was not the Father speaking. That was the Word of God speaking before His incarnation. It was the Word of God speaking in Isaiah 48:16-17 that the Lord God and His Spirit sent Him; and so it was the Word of God speaking in Isaiah 43:11
is not the WORD the Lord Jesus, WHOM YOU CALL SON?, (John 1:1). so you contradict yourself and the word of God. now commentary time Gill,
In the beginning was the word,.... That this is said not of the written word, but of the essential word of God, the Lord Jesus Christ, (did you get that?) is clear, from all that is said from hence, to Joh 1:14 as that this word was in the beginning, was with God, and is God; from the creation of all things being ascribed to him, and his being said to be the life and light of men; from his coming into the world, and usage in it; from his bestowing the privilege of adoption on believers; and from his incarnation; and also there is a particular application of all this to Christ, Joh 1:15. DO WE NEED TO GO ANY FURTHER?. Pool commentary, Was the Word, that is, the eternal Son of God, the Lord Jesus Christ, of whom more is spoken afterward. Nor is Christ in this text alone called the Word, but 1Jo 1:1, the Word of life.
JesusIsFaithful you must concede that the LORD, the one whom you calls the Father is the Lord Jesus. THE SAME ONE PERSON. your doctrine just fell apart. as I have been saying "Father" and "Son" are titles of the SAME one person. case closed.