And the truth shall set you free...

Job · Jun 6, 2017

Pro Jesus Anti Paul said:
End of conversation; you obviously fail to see, with the blinds covering your eyes.

Another one exposed.

Praise the Lord.

Job · Jun 6, 2017

Pro Jesus Anti Paul said:
Paul has been rejected and debated for almost 2000 years

If this is true, why are Paul's writings found in the bible?

JesusIsFaithful · Jun 6, 2017

Pro Jesus Anti Paul said:
Actually Jesus stated exactly that. You might want to slow down and take a good hard look at his words, John 8:31 "Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. 33They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
34Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. 35And the servant/slave abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. 36If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed."

Jesus clearly just stated: if you abide in my word you will know the truth and the truth will set you free from being a servant to sin.

This was about being His disciple; Not salvation. A lot of believers are not recognizing their need of Jesus as their Good Shepherd in trusting Him to understand His words as kept in the KJV and in helping them in being His disciples in these latter days in how He will free them from sin's bondages.

John 8:30 As he spake these words, many believed on him. 31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. 33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free? 34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. 35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. 36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

That is why Jesus had commanded His disciples to disciple new believers in teaching all He had taught them in how they can live this newly reconciled relationship with God through Jesus Christ, trusting Him as their Good Shepherd since He is in them and is with them always to finish the good work He has begun in them to His glory.

Paul did not preach anything outside of what Jesus had taught. Paul testified to the One that will finish His work in us and thus the Son will set them free from sin's dominion over their lives as Paul had striven for perfection by his confidence in the Lord.

You can be pro Jesus all you want, but to add anti-Paul to your testimony is contrary and thus confusing. Indeed, to take that route, people should be anti-YOU on any replies you give when they are to stick only to Jesus's words. So unless you believe Paul is teaching anything that is against what Jesus has taught... and you really need to have it as directly opposing and not just inferring it; like you did with Paul's exhortation to respect those in authority as God appointed so that the government that bears the sword not in vain to deter evil are respected; do remember Jesus said to respect even the Romans that were in authority; indeed, He gave examples...how they will grab any one off the road to carry things for them, and the Romans have killed too, right? So try not to blur the lines as if Paul was anti Jesus when he was not. You can make fault with Jesus's teaching just as much as you can with Paul's. Anyone can when they are not asking the Lord for answers on those things that seem contrary to them in the scripture of the N.T as kept in the KJV, but it isn't really.

Do start a thread to contest this otherwise and leave a link to that thread in your reply next time to me so I can go to it for a discussion, Lord be willing.

Pro Jesus Anti Paul · Jun 6, 2017

Job said:
If this is true, why are Paul's writings found in the bible?

Because Paul's followers (gentiles) were the majority and they overran those who opposed his teaching.

skyangel · Jun 6, 2017

Pro Jesus Anti Paul said:
You are talking in ignorance.

I am speaking from experience.
John 8:9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

Job · Jun 6, 2017

Pro Jesus Anti Paul said:
Because Paul's followers (gentiles) were the majority and they overran those who opposed his teaching.

So if Paul is a false prophet, all of his writing's, like the verse below, are false and cannot be considered a part of scripture? Right?

2 Timothy 3
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

Is this a lie?
.

mjrhealth · Jun 7, 2017

skyangel said:
The Pharisees thought Jesus was of the devil.

In a court of law, who is it that stands and accuses the defendant, the re4ason why Jesus said we should forgive is for this reason,

Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Mat 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
Mat 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Mat 7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
Mat 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

So when you are perfect as He is perfect, when you are without sin, than you will be able to judge , but even Jesus said,

Joh 8:15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.
Joh 8:16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.

Are you more able than Him to determine what is right and what is wrong??

So go accuse people of sin, than when you stand before JEsus , you till will be found with sin for you will be judged as you did them.

Marymog · Jun 7, 2017

Pro Jesus Anti Paul said:
I wish I could say I have found a denomination that I could fully support. We are all individuals and Christ is suppose to be our Leader, not a group of men with a creed. Sadly, I have found major issues with most denominations, but if I had to chose one it might be the mennonites, as they espouse the understanding, from a denominational standpoint, of the importance of Christ as one's King and not just a saviour: without subjection to him as sovereign. Having stated that, I have issues with them embracing Paul's concept of women as subjects of their husbands and not as being their equals.

I think it might be more helpful for me to share what structural truths I have come to: because of my commitment to Christ.

First, Christ is suppose to be our King/Ruler/Lord, if he is not one's Sovereign, he is not their saviour.

While it is a popular doctrine that mankind is saved by faith, apart from works, Jesus clearly taught that we will know a wolf from a sheep by their works, and that those who work inequity will be told to depart into everlasting darkness. Works define a person's faith.

Second, Love is affection, if one has affection for others, they will not want to see harm come to them: in any way. Ultimately our emotions tell the true state of our hearts, not our intellect. To walk right with God we need to not justify bad emotions, but rather, we need to ask God for forgiveness, for our lack of love(hatred) and realize we are wrong; if we confess our sins he is faithful to forgive us and cleanse us of all our unrighteousness.

When a person acts with bad emotions, you are seeing a mirror into their past. No matter what you have done, they could respond in a better way towards you, but when you personalize their reaction and respond in a bad way, it is the equivalent of 2 wrongs not making a right. You should not respond with evil for evil, but rather, good for evil. Those who act with bad emotions are expressing their pain, from past emotional experiences, it has nothing to do with you, feel for them, don't hate them.

Third, we are eachothers equals. We are all in the same boat together. Many of us have been scarred in really bad ways and we don't know how to fix ourselves, it's not that we want to be bad, it is just that some have given up and don't know how to heal. Just as it is true that you want to be the best person you can be, so it is true of everyone else. I know that may be hard to believe, but we were all made in God's image and we will not find true contentment until we return to peace, which is found in living out the teachings of Christ.

4th, Love yourself: if you have little to no love for yourself, it means little to nothing, to love your neighbor as yourself. You are made in God's image. God thought you important enough to take the time to breath His spirit into your body and give you consciousness. Love yourself a GREAT amount and love others with that same volume.

5th, Jesus established a New Covenant, don't think that he came to establish of rework the old one, he didn't. His teachings are different and higher in nature then the 10 Commandments: telling someone "thou shalt not" doesn't show them how to live; Jesus came to be the model for us to copy.

6th, don't tithe as the levites and the laws regarding taking care of them, don't apply to you. Not one of the Apostles were from the tribe of Levi and they would have thought it blasphemous to take a tithe from someone, how much less rite do gentiles have to do so? Don't get caught up in Sabbath keeping and debates about which day one aught to observe; Jesus didn't keep the Sabbath: he told a man to carry his bed on the Sabbath and that was grounds for stoning under the Old Covenant. Don't make issue with regards to what foods you can and cannot eat; Jesus said: its not what goes into a man that defiles him, but what comes out of a man.

7th, use the Strong's Concordance to research the meaning of words. With a book the size of the bible, you will not get a perfect translation. Many words don't translate between languages. In order to get the real meaning behind some words, you must have the meaning behind the word explained. If I asked 100 people to define the word love, I would probably get quite a few different meanings, in the same way it can be difficult trying to explain some words in other languages, but fortunately we have a book in which over 110 language scholars worked on, dedicated to giving us the meaning behind each Greek and Hebrew word. Take the time to check out the meaning behind the words written, especially when you see a verse that looks like it just doesn't quite fit, more often than not, a little research into the words origin will solve the mystery.

8th, don't care about glorified dirt; many people have killed others over material wealth, which is totally unnecessary: seeing the world has more than enough abundance to care for us all.

9th Forgive at all cost; If you want your eternal debt erased, forgive all; Hitler is closer in character to you, than you are to God. See Matthew 18: 21-35.

The gospel of Christ is about how to be forgiven: by releasing others of debts; blessed are the merciful: for they shall receive mercy. Forgive and you shall be forgiven.

Number 10, pray for God's help. You have not because you ask not... Ask and you shall receive.

I want to thank you for asking me for this list, I am in need of currently putting number 10 and 11 into practice.

Number 11 be thankful for everything, knowing that God is in control and he has a plan, even when things look dark: his will is being done.

I decided to give you 12 even though you asked for 10. Number 12, don't make issue over what a person intellectually believes, it is only how one actually lives that matters.

I hope this is of service to you.

May God and his Christ, bring you peace.

Thank you for your response. It seems very heartfelt and honest. There is a Mennonite community near me so I am familiar with them. I, at times, wonder if I would be happier living their lifestyle OR the lifestyle of a Monk. Secluded. No electronics. Silence. Peace. A simple life.

However, I am a bit confused about something. You say ".....Christ is suppose to be our Leader, not a group of men with a creed" but then go on to list your own creed. I know I asked you for a list but why is YOUR creed acceptable but a creed such as The Apostles Creed or the Nicene Creed made up by men other than you NOT acceptable? Instead of a group of men with a creed you are a man of one with a creed.

If 5,000 other people agreed with your creed and lived by it then you would be a group of men with a creed. Would you tell those 5,000 not to follow your creed and to make up their own creed?

Creed defined: a brief authoritative formula of religious belief; a set of fundamental beliefs; a guiding principle

Respectfully, Mary

brightmorningstar · Jun 7, 2017

Pro Jesus Anti Paul said:
Moses gave the old covenant law not Samuel. Who or what is NB? If you knew your church history you would understand that Paul has been rejected and debated for almost 2000 years: nothing new here.

The point is not who gave the law, but there is no contradiction. Your propositions have made one for yourself. Jesus fulfills the OT law and prophets.
Nor is it about church history, Christianity is based on the whole Bible, the whole New Testament is the witness of Christ. Any suggestion that it is only the four gospels is not recognised Christianity.
NB means "Nota bene", a Latin phrase meaning "note well". I cant believe you didnt know that and such an avoidance pretty much convinces me your motive is lgbt and secular liberalism.

Truth · Jun 9, 2017

I Agree with anti-paul, the book of Matthew is the King from heaven laying down the rules [constitution] of heaven, BUT no one listens to Him. we listen to what the paid professionals, telling us what the Scriptures are saying to us. Study the word to show Thyself Approved unto God A workman that need not be Ashamed Before God --- At the Judgement. Paul was a Pharisee, he new the first five books of the Scriptures word for word. even peter says that the words of Paul are hard to understand and those who do not know the Scriptures, the only Scriptures at the time that the Savior walked, twist them to their own destruction. Remember people the New Testament did not exists yet!!!

Guestman · Jun 9, 2017

Pro Jesus Anti Paul said:
See Romans 13 verses 1 through 4, in particular verse 4 states: 4For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

So what exactly are you saying ? I have no idea what you are talking about.

Job · Jun 9, 2017

Truth said:
I Agree with anti-paul

You believe Paul is a false prophet?

Truth said:
Paul was a Pharisee, he new the first five books of the Scriptures word for word. even peter says that the words of Paul are hard to understand and those who do not know the Scriptures, the only Scriptures at the time that the Savior walked, twist them to their own destruction. Remember people the New Testament did not exists yet!!!

The New Testament didn't exist but the scriptures did. The scriptures that are being twisted in 2 Peter 3:16 are Paul's. Notice what it says. Paul's teaching's are hard to understand and people who lack understanding twist his teaching's to their own destruction as they do the rest of the scriptures. "The rest of the scriptures" being the Old Testament and what was completed of the future New Testament.

2 Peter 3
15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you,
16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

Do you see it?

"As they do also" is the key to understanding that Paul's writings were considered scripture.

.

Truth · Jun 9, 2017

I am saying at this time Paul's letters were not in the cannon of scriptures, they were instructions to gentiles who were unstable and unlearned in the scriptures that Paul knew word for word. just letters to the gentiles, why would our savior enlist Paul as an Apostle to the gentiles, because he knew the Scriptures. he also spent three years in Saudi Arabia, probably at MT Sinai where the Commandments were given, where our Savior reveled himself and the truth of the Faith that was first delivered to the Apostles. the Truth

Job · Jun 9, 2017

Truth said:
I am saying at this time Paul's letters were not in the cannon of scriptures, they were instructions to gentiles who were unstable and unlearned in the scriptures that Paul knew word for word.

I understand what you're saying, but that's not what the bible says.

mjrhealth · Jun 9, 2017

Truth said:
says that the words of Paul are hard to understand and those who do not know the Scriptures

HAs nothing to do with knowing Scripture, PAud did and yet he persecuted JEsus. Pauls word where and are hard to understand because

1Co_2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

Understanding comnes by revelati, revelatiion comes from God, not reading books.

Luk_10:21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.

skyangel · Jun 9, 2017

Pro Jesus Anti Paul said:
I know that others must have preached on this in the past, but it seems as though very few have ever taken the time to study the context of Jesus' words "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."

Many people think they have been set free, but continue to live in sin, Jesus stated "whoever sins is a servant to sin", do people care at all about what Jesus teaches, or are they just interested in using the bible and Jesus to live in a state of delusion, while they amass sin upon sin: with no turning from them? What say you?

How do people tell the difference between Truth and what only APPEARS to be truth?
How do people know the Truth when the Truth APPEARS to be a lie to them?
The truth shall make you free from what?
It does not say the truth shall make anyone free from sin.
It is obvious to me that many people misinterpret scripture and live in a state of delusion as they worship and idolise an invisible man.

skyangel · Jun 9, 2017

Job said:
John 8
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Knowing the truth will set you free from the bondage of the Old Covenant. Knowing the truth will not make you blameless.

No one is without sin.

What about Jesus? Is he without sin?
What about all who are born of God? Are they without sin? Before you answer, read.. 1 John 3:9 and tell me what CANNOT SIN means.

mjrhealth · Jun 9, 2017

skyangel said:
as they worship and idolise an invisible man.

I am intirgued as to who saved you?? if not Christ, is it another magical invisble man that we dont know about??

skyangel · Jun 9, 2017

Pro Jesus Anti Paul said:
You are talking in ignorance.

Your own words apply to yourself.

For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

skyangel · Jun 9, 2017

mjrhealth said:
I am intirgued as to who saved you?? if not Christ, is it another magical invisble man that we dont know about??

Christ is not a visible or invisible man. Christ is a SPIRIT which manifests in many bodies of flesh on Earth.
Christ is TRUTH. Truth is not a man or a woman but a SPIRIT
Christ is LIFE. Life is not a man or a woman but a SPIRIT
Christ is LOVE. Love is not a man or a woman but a SPIRIT.
To worship any man including one named Jesus as if he alone was Christ is extremely foolish since the SPIRIT of TRUTH, LIFE, LOVE, is never confined to one man alone.

And the truth shall set you free...

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