Why do they hate being called Christians

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Mungo

Well-Known Member
May 23, 2012
4,332
643
113
England
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
What finished work of Christ?
Therefore, he is always able to save those who approach God through him, since he lives forever to make intercession for them. (Heb 7:25)
For there is one God. There is also one mediator between God and the human race, Christ Jesus (1Tim 25).

Isn't Jesus still interceding?
Isn't Jesus still mediating?
 

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
20,915
3,368
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
No, they're your scriptures.
You accused me of taking these verses out of context so the onus is on YOU to show how I took them out of context.
The fact that you don't seem to be able to do so simply exposes the fact that you don't know what you're talking about.

lol, yea they teach the world, but few believe.
Not the Church's fault if you don't believe . . .
 

Heb 13:8

Well-Known Member
Nov 2, 2016
2,040
331
83
USA
What finished work of Christ?
Therefore, he is always able to save those who approach God through him, since he lives forever to make intercession for them. (Heb 7:25)

Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
 

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
20,915
3,368
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
What are we believing in BOL?
In post #226 - YOU stated the following:
"You're taking all these scriptures out of context because you preach a false doctrine of works salvation."

This was in response to my previous post, wherein I stated:

And, as I have proven with Scripture - NOBODY can separate us from God - except for ourselves . . .
Matt. 7:19-23, Matt. 10:22, Matt. 24:13, Matt. 25:31–46, John 15:1-6, Rom. 11:22, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 4:4, 1 Tim. 4:1, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 3:12-14, Heb 6:4-6, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet.r 3:17, 1 John 2:24, 1 John 5:13, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19


Now - show me HOW I took "all" of these verses out of context.
 

Heb 13:8

Well-Known Member
Nov 2, 2016
2,040
331
83
USA
Now - show me HOW I took "all" of these verses out of context.

Matt. 7:21-23 - Referring only to Jesus day, before resurrection and before Jesus died.

Matt. 10:22 - Referring only to Jesus day, before resurrection and before Jesus died.

Matt. 24:13 - Referring to tribulation saints only inside Daniels 70th week

Matt. 25:31–46 - "When the Son of Man comes in his glory" is referring to the second coming of Christ

John 15:1-6 - This is an allegory. Read why Jesus spoke this way here, Mat 13:10. Do you also prove soul sleep is false by using Luke 16:19-31?

Rom. 11:22 - Rom 11:11-24 is another allegory. Read why Jesus spoke this way here, Mat 13:10. Do you also prove soul sleep is false by using Luke 16:19-31?

1 Cor. 9:27 - Referring to the 5 crowns believers receive at the Bema seat, winning or losing crowns. Read 1 Cor 9:24-27 in context.

1 Cor. 4:4 - What does this have to do with the topic at hand?

1 Tim. 4:1 - This chapter is making a distinction between believers and nonbelievers (apostates). Read 1 Tim 4:3, 10. The word "aphistémi" is also in Luke 8:13, referring to the root. You either have the root or you don't.

Heb. 3:6 - I see a contradiction here.. 2 Cor 5:1, 2 Tim 2:13, Heb 6:18-19, 1 John 5:14

Heb. 3:12-14 - I see a contradiction here, neither death nor life.. Rom 8:38-39

Heb 6:4-6 - This paragraph starts at Heb 5:11, where it talks about maturity in Christ, and has nothing to do with losing salvation.

Heb. 10:26-27 - I see a contradiction here, actually in the same chapter.. Heb 10:11-14

2 Pet. 3:17 - I see a contradiction here.. Heb 6:18-19

1 John 2:24 - I see a contradiction here.. John 6:35-40, John 10:25-30, Eph 1:13-14, Eph 4:30, Heb 9:12, 1 John 5:9-14

1 John 5:13 - Yes! and believing only comes once. That's why it is finished, John 19:30. Read 1 John 5:9-14 in context.

Rev. 3:5 - And who is the one that is victorious? The one that believes! 1 John 5:4-5

Rev. 22:19 - Referring to false prophets who do not have the truth, John 14:6, 2 John 1:1-2

Rev 22:19 Barnes' Notes on the Bible - And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy - If he shall reject the book altogether; if he shall, in transcribing it, designedly strike any part of it out. It is conceivable that, from the remarkable nature of the communications made in this book, and the fact that they seemed to be unintelligible, John supposed there might be those who would be inclined to omit some portions as improbable, or that he apprehended that when the portions which describe antichrist were fulfilled in distant ages, those to whom those portions applied would be disposed to strike them from the sacred volume, or to corrupt them. He thought proper to guard against this by this solemn declaration of the consequence which would follow such an act. The whole book was to be received - with all its fearful truths - as a revelation from God; and however obscure it might seem, in due time it would be made plain; however faithfully it might depict a fearful apostasy, it was important, both to show the truth of divine inspiration and to save the church, that these disclosures should be in their native purity in the possession of the people of God.

- Heb 13:8
 
Last edited:

Mungo

Well-Known Member
May 23, 2012
4,332
643
113
England
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Jesus is not interceding for us now?
Jesus is not mediating now?
 

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
20,915
3,368
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Matt. 7:21-23 - Referring only to Jesus day, before resurrection and before Jesus died.
WRONG.
This is referring to the "DAY" of Judgement - a future event.
Matt. 10:22 - Referring only to Jesus day, before resurrection and before Jesus died.
WRONG again.
Jesus is admonishing His disciples about the future.
Matt. 24:13 - Referring to tribulation saints only inside Daniels 70th week
WRONG again.
Jesus doesn't change the "rules" of salvation depending on the era.

ALL must endure or they will be lost.
Matt. 7:21-23 - Referring only to Jesus day, before resurrection and before Jesus died.
WRONG.
This is referring to the "DAY" of Judgement - a future event.
Matt. 10:22 - Referring only to Jesus day, before resurrection and before Jesus died.
WRONG again.
Jesus is admonishing His disciples about the future.
Matt. 25:31–46 - "When the Son of Man comes in his glory" is referring to the second coming of Christ
WRONG, my Scripturally-bankrupt friend.
The lesson about the Sheep and Goats refers to the Day of Judgement.
John 15:1-6 - This is an allegory. Read why Jesus spoke this way here, Mat 13:10. Do you also prove soul sleep is false by using Luke 16:19-31?

Rom. 11:22 - Rom 11:11-24 is another allegory. Read why Jesus spoke this way here, Mat 13:10. Do you also prove soul sleep is false by using Luke 16:19-31?
The fact that these passages are allegorical doe NOT mean that Jesus was telling LIES.
Whereas, the examples are allegorical - the message is 100% TRUTH.

"Soul Sleep"?? Good grief.
One heresy after another with you . . .
1 Cor. 9:27 - Referring to the 5 crowns believers receive at the Bema seat, winning or losing crowns. Read 1 Cor 9:24-27 in context.
WRONG.

Paul is talking about the fact that he is STILL capable of falling into sin, and thus, makes the practice of mortifying the flesh.
1 Cor. 4:4 - What does this have to do with the topic at hand?
It has everything to do with it.
Paul is once again stating that he can LOSE his secure position by his own hand.
1 Tim. 4:1 - This chapter is making a distinction between believers and nonbelievers (apostates). Read 1 Tim 4:3, 10. The word "aphistémi" is also in Luke 8:13, referring to the root. You either have the root or you don't.
Ummmm, Eintein - you can only be an "apostate" if you HAVE the truth and turn away from it.
Heb. 3:6 - I see a contradiction here.. 2 Cor 5:1, 2 Tim 2:13, Heb 6:18-19, 1 John 5:14
Heb. 3:12-14 - I see a contradiction here, neither death nor life.. Rom 8:38-39
Heb. 10:26-27 - I see a contradiction here, actually in the same chapter.. Heb 10:11-14
2 Pet. 3:17 - I see a contradiction here.. Heb 6:18-19
1 John 2:24 - I see a contradiction here.. John 6:35-40, John 10:25-30, Eph 1:13-14, Eph 4:30, Heb 9:12, 1 John 5:9-14
Only Biblically-illiterate people like YOU see "contradictions" in Scripture.
For those of use who know the Truth - ALL Scripture harmonizes.
Rev. 3:5 - And who is the one that is victorious? The one that believes! 1 John 5:4-5
WRONG.
The one who is victorious is the one who is faithful and obedient to the end.
Rev. 22:19 - Referring to false prophets who do not have the truth, John 14:6, 2 John 1:1-2

Rev 22:19 Barnes' Notes on the Bible - And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy - If he shall reject the book altogether; if he shall, in transcribing it, designedly strike any part of it out. It is conceivable that, from the remarkable nature of the communications made in this book, and the fact that they seemed to be unintelligible, John supposed there might be those who would be inclined to omit some portions as improbable, or that he apprehended that when the portions which describe antichrist were fulfilled in distant ages, those to whom those portions applied would be disposed to strike them from the sacred volume, or to corrupt them. He thought proper to guard against this by this solemn declaration of the consequence which would follow such an act. The whole book was to be received - with all its fearful truths - as a revelation from God; and however obscure it might seem, in due time it would be made plain; however faithfully it might depict a fearful apostasy, it was important, both to show the truth of divine inspiration and to save the church, that these disclosures should be in their native purity in the possession of the people of God.
- Heb 13:8
WRONG again.

God cannot "take away" from a person's share in the Tree of Life if they NEVER possessed it in the first place.
This is referring to Christians who had a full, experiential knowledge of the truth and LOST it.

False Prophets NEVER had a share in the Tree of Life.
You have once again exposed your complete ignorance of Scripture.
 

Heb 13:8

Well-Known Member
Nov 2, 2016
2,040
331
83
USA

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
20,915
3,368
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Your turn..

John 3:16, John 5:24, John 6:35-40, John 10:25-30, Rom 4:7, Rom 8:38-39, Eph 1:13-14, Eph 4:30, Heb 6:18-19, Heb 9:12, Heb 10:11-14, 1 John 5:4-5, 1 John 5:9-14, 2 John 1:2.
These are all great verses but not ONE of them states that "all" you have to do is believe to be saved.
Not ONE of them makes the claim that you can never lose your salvation.

YOUR problem is that by cherry-picking these verses, you have extracted their context with the rest of Scripture that tells us that we need to persevere in faith and obedience. Jesus didn't preach TWO Gospel messages - one where all you have to do is "believe" - and another where you have to persevere and obey. Without a life of obedience - you cannot hope to get to Heaven.
 

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
20,915
3,368
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
John 6:39
Rom 4:7
1 John 5:4-5. No, it says to the one who believes, my bankrupt friend. lol.
And you have cherry-picked all 3 of these verses out of context.

For example, you quote John 6:39 where it says:
"And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day."

Just a few verses later in John 53, Jesus says the following:
"Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you."

1 Tim. 2:4
says that God wills the salvation of ALL people and that ALL come to a knowledge of the truth.
Will "ALL" people be saved?? NO.

The will of God is NOT always followed.
Don't just quote the Bible - LEARN what it says and means . . .
 

Heb 13:8

Well-Known Member
Nov 2, 2016
2,040
331
83
USA
These are all great verses but not ONE of them states that "all" you have to do is believe to be saved.
Not ONE of them makes the claim that you can never lose your salvation.

YOUR problem is that by cherry-picking these verses, you have extracted their context with the rest of Scripture that tells us that we need to persevere in faith and obedience. Jesus didn't preach TWO Gospel messages - one where all you have to do is "believe" - and another where you have to persevere and obey. Without a life of obedience - you cannot hope to get to Heaven.

No, it just means you're in a state of unbelief. What are you gonna do, preach to the dead in the grave too? You either believe or you don't. :rolleyes:

1 Cor 15:17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost.

Just a few verses later in John 53, Jesus says the following:
"Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you."

John 53 is referring to those who have accepted Christ and have the anointing of the Holy Spirit. If Christ wasn't raised then those that are already dead are lost. Christ paid the sin penalty in full by His blood. Our sins are forgiven at the cross! Past, present and future.

1 Cor 15:17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins.

1 Tim. 2:4 says that God wills the salvation of ALL people and that ALL come to a knowledge of the truth.
Will "ALL" people be saved?? NO.

That's right BOL, not all will believe. You still don't get it do you. :rolleyes:

1 Tim 1:16 But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life.

1 Tim 2:3-4 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

1 Tim 4:3 They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth.

1 Ti 4:10 That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.
 
Last edited:

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
20,915
3,368
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
No, it just means you're in a state of unbelief. What are you gonna do, preach to the dead in the grave too? You either believe or you don't.
clip_image001.png


1 Cor 15:17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost.

John 53 is referring to those who have accepted Christ and have the anointing of the Holy Spirit. If Christ wasn't raised then those that are already dead are lost. Christ paid the sin penalty in full by His blood. Our sins are forgiven at the cross! Past, present and future.


1 Cor 15:17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins.
WRONG.
This is a Protestant perversion of Scripture that not all Protestants believe, by the way.

Nowhere do we read in Scripture that all of our future sins are automatically forgiven without repentance.
Not past, not present and not future. Not ONE sin is forgiven without having repented for it. We were all REDEEMED (paid for) by what Jesus did on the cross. We are not forgiven until we repent and are baptized (Mark 16:16, John 3:5, Acts 2:38).

As for John 6:53 - it is saying exactly what Jesus stated:
“. . . unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you."


If you deny the Eucharist – you are spiritually dead.

That's right BOL, not all will believe. You still don't get it do you.
clip_image001.png


1 Tim 1:16 But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life.

1 Tim 2:3-4 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

1 Tim 4:3 They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth.

1 Ti 4:10 That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.
And YOU still don’t get it because you don’t understand what it means to “believe”.

Believing in Christ is not a simple intellectual assent. It means submission and obedience. He will accept nothing less:
John 14:15
"If you love me, keep my commands.

Matt. 16:24
"Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me.

What does “believing” in our Lord Jesus entail?

- Being baptized (Matt. 28:19-20, John 3:5, Rom. 2:29, Rom. 6:1-11, Col. 2:12-17, 1 Peter 3:21)
- Picking up our cross daily to follow him (Matt. 16:24, Luke 9:23)
- Works of mercy and charity (Matt. 19:21, 25:31–46, Luke 18:22)
- Obeying his commandments (John 14:15, 15:10)
- Doing the will of the Father (Matt. 7:21, James 1:22)
- We must suffer with Christ (Matt. 10:38, 16:24, Mark 8:34, John 12:24, Rom. 8:17, 2 Cor. 1:5-7, Eph. 3:13, Phil. 1:29, 2 Tim. 1:8, 1 Peter 2:19-21, 4:1-2)