A Soldier lashes out at politicians who back the war

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BernieEOD

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I served three years in the Army as a infantry soldier.So I wasn't under any delusions of what the overall job description of the military was.It doesn't have to take a former service member to realize the military is a war occupation.Again if we would have stopped Hitler the second he violate the treaty of Versailles WWII wouldn't have resulted in 40-50 million deaths.
The Treaty of Versalles was an unjust treaty and no American was willing to go to war to enforce it. Forcing the Germans to endure 1000% Infaltion, 65% unemployment, and total anarchy is simply wrong. Europe created Hitler, Europe deserved Hitler.
 

BernieEOD

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[quote name='jamesrage;31770]Doesn't change the fact that a garbage man's job is to pick up trash off the side of the curb or sometimes drive a trash truck[QUOTE]Likewise' date=' when there is a call up for a war:That does not change the fact the military is a war occupation and that If you do not want to go to war then do not sign up.Nobody signs up to be a garbage man because they think they are not going to deal with trash nor does anyone sign up to be a police office and think they won't have to deal with criminals and paper work.If you are disillusioned about your military service it is because you thought you would just to collect a check and never have the chance of going to war.Since the draft was ended yes it is.[/QUOTE']You sign up believing the patiotic propaganda only to find that your real mission is to force our godless ways down the throats of the Islamic world. These disillusioned vets refused to re enlist and are excercising thier right to voice their opinions. If you are so serious about this war, go back in and get soeme real trigger time! Don't say you are too old because if you are a vet, there is no age limit. As long as you can pass PRT you can get back in. This shows how short the Army is for wannabes eager for trigger time.Not all who are disillusioned were there only for the paycheck, they expected to fight for thier patriotic duty only to learn that they are the evil invaders.I left the Submarine service after 13 years because contrary to the hype, thier only mission was to pass the next reactor safety inspection. I ripped my submarine Dolphins off my uniform and threw them on the CO's desk. I finished my 20 (Actually did another 13 years) In a reserve EOD unit.
 

BernieEOD

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Go back in, get some trigger time over there, and see weather or not you come back disillusioned. These guys are vets who did their time and are now voicing their opinions.There is a difference between fighting against bad guys and fighting as one of the bad guys.
 

BernieEOD

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Another dissillusioned vet came back frustrated that his "Triger time" was limited to "Hosing off the usual suspects" with his M-2. He never killed anybody who was able to shoot back. He applied for OCS and was eager to go back and get into a real fire fight. He resigned from his guard unit after several drill weekends where his superiors told him "We don't care about your Iraq war stories! This is how we do things!"Kind of depressing to forget wat one learned in the real world and have to go back practicing tactics that don't work.Another disillusioned vet resigned because his only job in Baghdad was to enforce uniform and haircut regulations. He was even supposed to write up units comming in from the field for dirty unforms. He got out.So, going to war instead of sitting around collecting a paycheck is not the onlyu reason for being disillusioned.
 

jamesrage

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The Treaty of Versalles was an unjust treaty and no American was willing to go to war to enforce it
Regardless of who felt what about the treaty,US and allies should have stopped Hitler when he first Violated the treaty of Versailles.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Ver...eaty_violationsIn March 1935, Adolf Hitler violated the Treaty of Versailles by introducing compulsory military conscription in Germany and rebuilding the armed forces.
 

jamesrage

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You sign up believing the patiotic propaganda only to find that your real mission is to force our godless ways down the throats of the Islamic world. These disillusioned vets refused to re enlist and are excercising thier right to voice their opinions.
Lost of people choose not to reenlist.But complaining because you had to go to war or something else a military occupation description requires is absurd.Any body who has seen any war movie know or has some idea that going to war is what the military is about.
If you are so serious about this war, go back in and get soeme real trigger time! Don't say you are too old because if you are a vet, there is no age limit. As long as you can pass PRT you can get back in. This shows how short the Army is for wannabes eager for trigger time.
Someone who spent all his time on a boat and a sub full of men has no room to question anyone about real time or real service.
Not all who are disillusioned were there only for the paycheck, they expected to fight for thier patriotic duty only to learn that they are the evil invaders.
You join the military it is your duty to fight any war the government tells you to fight.That is a fact.I do not ever remember a fight a war of your choosing enlistment bonus.
Another dissillusioned vet came back frustrated that his "Triger time" was limited to "Hosing off the usual suspects" with his M-2. He never killed anybody who was able to shoot back. He applied for OCS and was eager to go back and get into a real fire fight. He resigned from his guard unit after several drill weekends where his superiors told him "We don't care about your Iraq war stories! This is how we do things!"Kind of depressing to forget wat one learned in the real world and have to go back practicing tactics that don't work.Another disillusioned vet resigned because his only job in Baghdad was to enforce uniform and haircut regulations. He was even supposed to write up units comming in from the field for dirty unforms. He got out.
You should post sources for your claims.
So, going to war instead of sitting around collecting a paycheck is not the onlyu reason for being disillusioned.
You are trying to make it sound like people joining a military occupation are being disillusioned because they had to go to war.How many times in this thread have you uttered this line "Unless YOU yourself served, you are in no position to condem those who have actually been there".It sounds to me that you are trying to make it seem that these people were disillusioned about signing up for the military and having to go to war.
 

BernieEOD

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Regardless of who felt what about the treaty,US and allies should have stopped Hitler when he first Violated the treaty of Versailles.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Ver...eaty_violationsIn March 1935, Adolf Hitler violated the Treaty of Versailles by introducing compulsory military conscription in Germany and rebuilding the armed forces.
After the hell in the trenches and the evil Treaty of Versales, nobody was willing to put thier lives on the line to enforce such an evil ideal.Europe created Hitler, Europe deserved Hitler. Enforcing a treaty which made Germany into a Giant concentration camp was a cause nobody was willing to fight for.
 

BernieEOD

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Lost of people choose not to reenlist.But complaining because you had to go to war or something else a military occupation description requires is absurd.Any body who has seen any war movie know or has some idea that going to war is what the military is about.Being told you are going to war to "Liberate" a people only to find out that you are there to terrorise them into submission to the puppet government we set up tends to dissillusion someone.Someone who spent all his time on a boat and a sub full of men has no room to question anyone about real time or real service.Real Service? I went into Subs because at that time, that is where the real action was supposed to be. In the first few years I was there, we were doing things mentioned in the book "Blind man's Bluff" While you Army types were only cleaning your rifles, spit shinning your shoes, and doing other menial inspections. You join the military it is your duty to fight any war the government tells you to fight.That is a fact.I do not ever remember a fight a war of your choosing enlistment bonus.With that ststement, you justified the actions of the Nazis. Nuremburg established that there is a higher law than those of ones government and one has a duty to refuse to fight an unjust war. "Liberating" Islamic counbtries into our teen sex, gangs, drugs, abortion, and other godless ways is an unjust war.You should post sources for your claims.You are trying to make it sound like people joining a military occupation are being disillusioned because they had to go to war.How many times in this thread have you uttered this line "Unless YOU yourself served, you are in no position to condem those who have actually been there".It sounds to me that you are trying to make it seem that these people were disillusioned about signing up for the military and having to go to war.
The video this post refers to.Kevin Tillman (Brother of the late Pat Tillman) LetterYou only did 3 years? Hows that? Normally an enlistment id for two or four years? Did you get an Admin dicharge?Either way, you did time in an infantry unit without getting any actual trigger time. Those who have actually seen combat are not so eager for more.It is not war its self that disillusions these people, it is the fact that they are finding themselves to be the very evil occupoers they were expecting to be at war against. Invading another country and imposing our ways is not a noble cause.
 

jamesrage

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You only did 3 years? Hows that? Normally an enlistment id for two or four years?
My contract was only for three years active duty.
Did you get an Admin dicharge?
I got an honorable discharge.
Either way, you did time in an infantry unit without getting any actual trigger time.
It still doesn't take a combat vet to know that the military is a war occupation and that if you sign up for the military then most likely you will go to war,as a matter of fact it doesn't take any kind of vet to know the military is a war occupation,it just takes common sense.
 

BernieEOD

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My contract was only for three years active duty.I got an honorable discharge. It still doesn't take a combat vet to know that the military is a war occupation and that if you sign up for the military then most likely you will go to war,as a matter of fact it doesn't take any kind of vet to know the military is a war occupation,it just takes common sense.
Common sense isn't very common these days. Have you seen the Army's recent recruiting ads? They never mention "Trigger time in Baghdad". Only the technical training you will recieve and the money for college. I helped a kid cancel his enlistment when his friend came back crippled for life and he suddenly realized it wasn't going to what the recruiter promised. He was told that "Trigger time" was only given to those who wanted it.The people mentioned in this post did not break any laws. They obeyed orders and becae disillusioned. Not because they had to go to war but because they saw themselves as the very bad guys they were expecting to fight against. Instead of "Liberating" a people they found themselves terrorising them intoi submission to the puppet government we installed over there. Instead of killing bad guys, they were hosing off the usual suspects in resp[onse to another IED. Why don't you get back in uniform and get over there? As a veteran, the only age limit is that you are not old enough to collect your social security check. Even for civilians, the age limit is now 43 and soon to be 45. This shows how low they are running on wannabes eager for trigger time.
 

jamesrage

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Common sense isn't very common these days. Have you seen the Army's recent recruiting ads? They never mention "Trigger time in Baghdad".
Why should they mention trigger time in Baghdad,if you join the military then logic dictates that there is a good chance you will see trigger time in some place.
Only the technical training you will recieve and the money for college.
I wouldn't call infantry training technical.
I helped a kid cancel his enlistment
Support the military but not the war?I bet Jane Fonda uttered those lies when she decided to aid the Vietcong.
Not because they had to go to war but because they saw themselves as the very bad guys they were expecting to fight against.
Perhaps they have been listening to too many anti-american and terrorist propaganda.If you seriously believe America is the bad guy then you have problems.Personally I do not think it is better to leave people under the rule of a brutal dictator,it like sitting watching some girl get the crap beat out of here even though you are fully capable of stopping it.
Instead of "Liberating" a people they found themselves terrorising them intoi submission to the puppet government we installed over there.
Sounds like nonsense some fake combat vet or John Kerry was spewing to the anti-american media.
 

BernieEOD

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Why should they mention trigger time in Baghdad,if you join the military then logic dictates that there is a good chance you will see trigger time in some place.I wouldn't call infantry training technical.Not all Army jobs are Infantry. Currently 2/3 of the MOS's even ion the Army are OTG (Other than Grunt) Support the military but not the war?I bet Jane Fonda uttered those lies when she decided to aid the Vietcong.As a citizen, one has not just a right, but a duty to question a war. You don't support the military by sending kids to get killed or maimed for a bad cause. Imposing Western Godlessness upon the Islamic world is an unworthy cause. Perhaps they have been listening to too many anti-american and terrorist propaganda.If you seriously believe America is the bad guy then you have problems.Personally I do not think it is better to leave people under the rule of a brutal dictator,it like sitting watching some girl get the crap beat out of here even though you are fully capable of stopping it.No, they experience the real thing. It is you who is spouting the neocn propaganda. Combat vets don't come back from combat spouting the same patriotic BS they are fed before going. Anyone who claims to be a combat vet and does is more than likely an OTG who never went outside the wire, one who never atutally got any real trigger time, or an outright fake. Sounds like nonsense some fake combat vet or John Kerry was spewing to the anti-american media.
Real combat vets don't come back spewing your chickenhawk talk.
 

Dunamite

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Why should they mention trigger time in Baghdad,if you join the military then logic dictates that there is a good chance you will see trigger time in some place.I wouldn't call infantry training technical. Support the military but not the war?I bet Jane Fonda uttered those lies when she decided to aid the Vietcong. Perhaps they have been listening to too many anti-american and terrorist propaganda.If you seriously believe America is the bad guy then you have problems.Personally I do not think it is better to leave people under the rule of a brutal dictator,it like sitting watching some girl get the crap beat out of here even though you are fully capable of stopping it. Sounds like nonsense some fake combat vet or John Kerry was spewing to the anti-american media.
America is not the bad guy, but we are all being sucked in by the bad guy. America is not what you think it to be. You think of all of the good people and values which is true. But there is another side of America which is foreign.America is occupied. Its government has invaded sovereign nations over 200 times in the past couple of hundreds of years. There is a pattern. Human rights are abused abroad. Dictators have been kept in power and great evil done. Saddam Husein was once one of these people. So was Noriega, Pinochet, Marcos and the list is endless.These people do not represent what Americans are like. They do represent what evil lurks in America. I say this with the greatest love for the American people.Since its earliest days America has been threatened with takeover not from an external enemy, but from bankers and corporations. Leaders from Lincoln to the present have tried to battle these forces, but somewhere the bankers and corporations gained the upper hand. The president that had the most to say on this was Woodrow Wilson. He saw what their game was and he fought in 1913 to pass the Federal Reserve Act to control the bankers. Unfortunately his misjudged his enemy.The Federal Reserve is a private agency, not a government one. They steal your tax dollars and it goes right into the hands of private interests. They regulate your money supply and determine government policy.Last week Bernanke the head of the Fed spoke out. This is very unusual. It is no coincidence that Bush acted a short time later to give away more of your money in the way of tax handouts, most of it will stay in the hands of the rich. Bush is a pawn of corporate interests. The people who pull the strings work in private, behind closed doors.Read up on the Federal Reserve if you do not believe me. Do some research. They hold all of the nation's wealth. They control Fort Knox. They print the money.All wars and most government policy is determined by money. You cannot run a nation without it. Whoever controls the money controls the nation.I care not what puppet is placed upon the throne of England to rule the Empire on which the sun never sets. The man who controls Britain's money supply controls the British Empire, and I control the British money supply. --Nathan Mayer RothschildThe world is governed by very different personages from what is imagined by those who are not behind the scenes. -- Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli of England, in 1844The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to the point where it becomes stronger than the democratic state itself. That in its essence is fascism - ownership of government by an individual, by a group or any controlling private power. --Franklin Delano RooseveltThe real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the large centers has owned the government of the U.S. since the days of Andrew Jackson. -- U.S. President Franklin D. Roosevelt in a letter written Nov. 21, 1933 to Colonel E. Mandell House.Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to befoul this unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of today. --President Theodore Roosevelt, 1906I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. As a result of the war, corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed. --President Abraham Lincoln, 1865I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated governments in the civilized world. No longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men. - Woodrow Wilson (disputed by some, supposedly said after signing the Federal Reserve Act, 1913I am concerned for the security of our great nation; not so much because of any threat from without, but because of the insidious forces working from within. - General Douglas MacArthurA Central American nun once said that America is a contradiction. Americans are good people. But she says that they do not know that they are living in the belly of a dragon.John F. Kennedy tried to stand up to these forces. So did his brother. Jack Kennedy was murdered just weeks after as speech that he gave in which he attacked secret societies and their power. You can hear this speech on the internet. You can also watch the video of his assassination. Shortly before the car turns the corner the secret service agents are told to stand down by someone with great power and influence, greater than even the president. You can see the agents all jumping off the bumpers and walking away. One agent throws his arms up in disbelief and Kennedy's are left alone. Seconds later the president is dead.The speech is here: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1710662559138481080The stand down is here: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5770984395481454022There are great and insidious powers at work inside the U.S. whether you choose to believe it is up to you. It explains a lot once you accept it. Otherwise there is much about America that is contradictory and mysterious. Some people believe that 9/11 was an inside job. I think that there is much about this theory that makes more sense that the official explanation. Admittedly I am a bit of a Kennedy assassination nut because he died on my 12th birthday and I was home and watched it live on TV. There is more to wonder about though.Nobody can explain why WTC 7 fell down since it was never hit and did not receive major damage. Closer buildings hit with large bits of debris stood and had to be torn down or repaired. WTC was farther away and had no obvious damage. this was the place where the money was stored. Gold bullion and silver to the tune of over $1 trillion. Gold does not evaporate. Neither does silver. It might melt, but it never disappears and does not react easily. Nothing can explain its disappearance. Also this building was the headquarters of the FBI and it had all of the evidence for Worldcom and Enron and other big name corporate scams. The evidence went up in smoke and the cases died. These case involved billions of dollars. The BBC reported the destruction of WTC 20 minutes before it fell. They received a tip and you can see the video for yourself where it still stands while the reporter says that it has fallen. Who knew?The owner of the WTC refinanced his buildings for $9 billion in June, 2001 and added and clause to protect it from terrorist activity. The buildings were losing money and there were lots of empty floors. He made a bundle when they went down. He later said that the firefighters were ordered to "pull" WTC. That is slang for detonate it. If this was true the work would have had to be done in the previous weeks which means that it was planned.Once you see that it is about power and money, everything takes on a different light. If there is a shred of truth to any of this we should all be lashing out. I say the soldier has some valid beefs.Blessings,Dunamite(BTW, I can give you a list of the countries that America has invaded or dictators they have propped up over the years. Sadly, it would not benefit us. I do not seek to rub anyone's nose in the mess, just to point out that a mess exists.)
 

BernieEOD

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The people are part of the problem too. If you were to sit inside the beltway and recieve feedback as to what the "Will of the people" is you would recieve a lot of contradictions. You would have people wanting plenty of cheap gasoline without any oil wells or refineries in thier own back yard, Plenty of cheap electricity without any nuclear power plants or any smoke stacks. Low prices at the supermarket and yet they vote to cut off water to farmers and support the paving of ever more farmland into new developments.One moment, people proudly wave the flag calling for war but few actually present their own bodies to fight it. When the economy feels the load of a war and more and more people come home dead or crippled "The people" Suddenly turn against a war as though one can simply end one with the flip of a switch.While the powers you mention are indeed there and doing exactly what you claim, Too many people are willing to be suckered by them.
 

jamesrage

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Real combat vets don't come back spewing your chickenhawk talk.
Real military members know the military is a war occupation and therefore have no right to complain just because they got sent to war.
 

BernieEOD

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Real military members know the military is a war occupation and therefore have no right to complain just because they got sent to war.
You did 3 years in a peactime military. Your "War stories" Consist of:- Spit shinning your boots- Enlessly cleaning your rifle- Bouncing quarters off of your bunk- Doing other menial task on various work details- And every now and then going into the field and playing soldier.Even though I myself have some interesting stories to tell of my time on submarines, I am in no position to rebuke someone who is disillusioned when he endured a depth charging. Likewise, you are in no position to criticize one who has actually seen combat and endured the futility of the current cause.
 

jamesrage

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You did 3 years in a peactime military.
And how does this change the fact the military is a war occupation,please fell free to explain that? If you willingly join a war occupation then you have no business complaining about going to war after all you willingly joined a war occupation, three years in the infantry or 17 years on a boat or sub does not change that fact.Obviously you didn't spend enough time in the military to realize that fact.You can criticize and mock the fact I only spent three years in the military while you spent 17 years on boat/sub all you want.It does not change the fact the military is a war occupation and that you have no business complaining about going to war when you willingly out of your own free will sign your name on the dotted line and swear an oath to join a career in war.
 

Tehillah

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im with james on this oneif you join the army you are probley going to die or get maimed and or crippled phyicaly or mentally it sucks but thats the way it is in warbut how blessed are those we have the courage to go through these things for there friends, family and country
 

jamesrage

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One who has never seen combat is in no position to judge one who has.
Again how does this change the fact the military is a war occupation and that you have no business what so ever complaining when you get sent to war?One who join joins the military has no position to complain about going to war what so ever.