The Problem With The Trinity

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bbyrd009

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Are we speaking of teh now or than?? The now is our doing and our choice, the than is when He does it not our choosing.
i would say that now and then are intentionally confused, so that ppl may see and not see. Regardless of what may happen in future, the Revelation of Christ is a personal, spiritual and practical matter, often portrayed in the Book as "future," to differentiate it from the obvious "past." A "thousand year reign" is surely nothing like what most people have in their minds.
 

mjrhealth

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i would say that now and then are intentionally confused
Not really. We live now but thw than has already being determined we just cant see it, my nose is as far as I can see. But this I know, we are all given teh same Holy Spirit when we come to Christ, wether we use Him as a door mat or to for undersatdng that is our choosing. One does not have much chioce when it coem to Christ, its either Him or its not, everything else is not an option.
 

KBCid

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A little common sense will often go a long way is Bible reading. Jesus is praying to someone other than himself, addressing a number of issues to the Father. 'We' is a simple plural pronoun and by definition infers more than one. This particular statement shows three interactive points between Jesus and the Father.
"I come to you" He is addressing a second person.
"keep through your own name," Again, a second party address.
"those whom you have given me." Jesus acknowledges the fact that those whom he has received came from a source outside of himself.
Jesus then offers a comparison of unity, "that they may be one, as we are." The comparison is that all believers will be one in the same way that Jesus and the Father are one. All believers are not one single numeric value. They are many, yet are one. This means that 'one' must be understood as something more than a numeric one. This then begs the question, in what way is Jesus and the Father one? In what way are believers one?

Yes! Yes! Yes! You have grasped this understanding perfectly and there is no "question" that the Father and Christ are one in purpose just as we can be one in purpose.... Each of us individuals acting as one body.

Now I would ask you this question to see if you have been given a full understanding of the significance of the Father and Christ being 2 individuals;

What is the significance of Eve being formed differently than Adam was?
 
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KBCid

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The Textual Problem in 1 John 5:7-8

“5:7 For there are three that testify, 5:8 the Spirit and the water and the blood, and these three are in agreement.” ‑‑NET Bible

Before τὸ πνεῦμα καὶ τὸ ὕδωρ καὶ τὸ αἷμα, the Textus Receptus reads ἐν τῷ οὐρανῷ, ὁ πατήρ, ὁ λόγος, καὶ τὸ ἅγιον πνεῦμα, καὶ οὗτοι οἱ τρεῖς ἕν εἰσι. 5·8 καὶ τρεῖς εἰσιν οἱ μαρτυροῦντες ἐν τῇ γῇ (“in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one. 5:8 And there are three that testify on earth”). This reading, the infamous Comma Johanneum, has been known in the English-speaking world through the King James translation. However, the evidence—both external and internal—is decidedly against its authenticity.
The Textual Problem in 1 John 5:7-8

Controversial texts should not be used as foundations to argue from.
 
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oldhermit

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Yes! Yes! Yes! You have grasped this understanding perfectly and there is no "question" that the Father and Christ are one in purpose just as we can be one in purpose.... Each of us individuals acting as one body.

Now I would ask you this question to see if you have been given a full understanding of the significance of the Father and Christ being 2 individuals;

What is the significance of Eve being formed differently than Adam was?
Because she was intended to form a different set of functions. In the Triadic Unity, all three members of that unity form a different set of functions as well.
 

oldhermit

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The Textual Problem in 1 John 5:7-8

“5:7 For there are three that testify, 5:8 the Spirit and the water and the blood, and these three are in agreement.” ‑‑NET Bible

Before τὸ πνεῦμα καὶ τὸ ὕδωρ καὶ τὸ αἷμα, the Textus Receptus reads ἐν τῷ οὐρανῷ, ὁ πατήρ, ὁ λόγος, καὶ τὸ ἅγιον πνεῦμα, καὶ οὗτοι οἱ τρεῖς ἕν εἰσι. 5·8 καὶ τρεῖς εἰσιν οἱ μαρτυροῦντες ἐν τῇ γῇ (“in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one. 5:8 And there are three that testify on earth”). This reading, the infamous Comma Johanneum, has been known in the English-speaking world through the King James translation. However, the evidence—both external and internal—is decidedly against its authenticity.
The Textual Problem in 1 John 5:7-8

Controversial texts should not be used as foundations to argue from.
I agree. The textual evidence supporting this verse is virtually nonexistent, at least in all of the mss of 1John that we have found thus far. No Greek MSS extant contains verse seven in the body of the text until 1520. There are some 300 Gk mss. of 1Jn. Of these, the longer reading appears in only eight very late mss, one of which is mss 221 which dates prior to the 10th century A.D. Of these eight, four have it only as a marginal note as in the case of mss 221. It does not appear in the body of any Gk. text until it was added in mss. 61 in 1520. The first time this verse appears in ANY mss comes from Priscillian, a Spanish Bishop who lived from 340 - 385. He was the fist one to add this longer reading to the text of his Latin mss in about 380. Thus, it continued to appear in other Latin mss over the years. The mss evidence supporting verse seven is the weakest of any questioned text I have ever researched. It simply should not be there. This does not however suggest that what this verse says is untrue. This verse in unnecessary for confirming the truth of the triadic nature of God. Everything this verse reveals is confirmed by other texts.
 

KBCid

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Because she was intended to form a different set of functions. In the Triadic Unity, all three members of that unity form a different set of functions as well.

I had high hopes. You seem to have a good grasp of the revealed truth. I'm sorry you haven't been given this yet.
 

KBCid

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It simply should not be there. This does not however suggest that what this verse says is untrue. This verse in unnecessary for confirming the truth of the triadic nature of God. Everything this verse reveals is confirmed by other texts.

If it shouldn't be there then why would it be? The word of God is sufficient on its own and has no need of help to convey its intent. For someone to add to his word then they must have felt that it wasn't expressing what they believed it should be saying, maybe God's intent wasn't what men wanted. You pointed out logic a few posts ago and it is by this same gift that you should be testing its existence. A man of God who fears his maker and was forewarned about adding anything to God's words would not logically do so.
How might one deceive the very elect? you must first have a foundation to build on and a Christians foundation is the word of God or what he believes it is saying.

God has 1 nature. Christ is a partaker of that divine nature just as all the host of heaven are partakers and the elect will also be partakers so, if all are partakers of the very same nature then it cannot be defined as triadic.
2 Peter 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, so that in the end God will be all in all as it is written;
1 Cor 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
 
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oldhermit

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If it shouldn't be there then why would it be? The word of God is sufficient on its own and has no need of help to convey its intent. For someone to add to his word then they must have felt that it wasn't expressing what they believed it should be saying, maybe God's intent wasn't what men wanted. You pointed out logic a few posts ago and it is by this same gift that you should be testing its existence. A man of God who fears his maker and was forewarned about adding anything to God's words would not logically do so.
How might one deceive the very elect? you must first have a foundation to build on and a Christians foundation is the word of God or what he believes it is saying.

God has 1 nature. Christ is a partaker of that divine nature just as all the host of heaven are partakers and the elect will also be partakers so, if all are partakers of the very same nature then it cannot be defined as triadic.
2 Peter 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, so that in the end God will be all in all as it is written;
1 Cor 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
You have not comprehended a single thing I have said. Perhaps I am wasting my time.
 

KBCid

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You have not comprehended a single thing I have said. Perhaps I am wasting my time.

I did comprehend that you believe that the verse that shouldn't be there appears to match with the intent of other scripture and I am saying that if other scripture already says the intent then why add it? especially when God says not to add to his word. Who would add to God's word when there is an express warning about such additions?
 

oldhermit

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I did comprehend that you believe that the verse that shouldn't be there appears to match with the intent of other scripture and I am saying that if other scripture already says the intent then why add it? especially when God says not to add to his word. Who would add to God's word when there is an express warning about such additions?
I was really not referring to my last post. I was referring to everything I have said. You really have understood nothing I have said. I was not defending the adding of the verse. I was quite clear that it should not be there. It still does that change the fact that everything this verse says is confirmed in other passages. I do not believe there is any point in continuing this.
 

KBCid

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I was really not referring to my last post. I was referring to everything I have said. You really have understood nothing I have said. I was not defending the adding of the verse. I was quite clear that it should not be there. It still does that change the fact that everything this verse says is confirmed in other passages. I do not believe there is any point in continuing this.

I have understood all that you have written but, you apparently don't wish to discuss anything. That's ok by me.
 

FHII

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Oldhermit,

If you have a part 3, please continue (in your own time and if you desire so, of course).
 

oldhermit

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Oldhermit,

If you have a part 3, please continue (in your own time and if you desire so, of course).
If you are asking about part three of Phil. 2, that is on post #95. If you are wanting to think beyond Phil 2 we can look at Hebrews one and how it relates to Phil 2.
 

oldhermit

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GINOLJC,

if his equality is his by right of divine essence, question how is he his son?.
Your questions do not seem to be an honest search for either knowledge nor understanding so I am not sure I am interested in wasting my time answering this.
 

101G

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Your questions do not seem to be an honest search for either knowledge nor understanding so I am not sure I am interested in wasting my time answering this.
let me determine if it's an honest one or not. it's a question, so can you answer the question? see, I understand what a "Son" is here when used metaphorically. but if you could answer the question it could yield tons of valuable information. I'll be waiting for your answer.
 

oldhermit

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let me determine if it's an honest one or not. it's a question, so can you answer the question? see, I understand what a "Son" is here when used metaphorically. but if you could answer the question it could yield tons of valuable information. I'll be waiting for your answer.
If someone else had asked me this question, I should be happy to respond. Your track record however has been to regard me as a liar no matter what text I offer you so no, I think you and I are done.
 

101G

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If someone else had asked me this question, I should be happy to respond. Your track record however has been to regard me as a liar no matter what text I offer you so no, I think you and I are done.
GOOD, so I'll answer the question myself.
Intrinsic: 1. belonging to a thing by its very nature, (diversity). is shows ownership, or possession (Proverbs 8:22) . In Anatomy . (of certain muscles, nerves, etc.) belonging to or lying within a given part. 2. of or relating to the essential nature of a thing; inherent. 3. control over oneself, one's mind, etc. (Philippians 2:5 -10) 4. domination, actuation, or obsession by a feeling, idea, etc. the feeling or idea itself.

Intrinsic is synonymous with, native, innate, natural, true, real, and essential.
native: belonging to a person by birth or to a thing by nature;
inherent. (hence his, or hers, my, your, our), as in the Lord Jesus in his diversified form as a man. Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God". this scripture support our view of the Intrinsic Spacial which is the diversified spirit, or the G243 ALLOS of God in form and fashion. listen to the definition of form here in Philippians 2:6
G3444 μορφή morphe (mor-fay') n.
1. shape
2. (figuratively) nature
KJV: form Root(s): G3313

knowing the meaning of definition #2, it say figuratively, right, lets see the based of the root of the word. G3313 μέρος meros (mer'-os) n. 1. a division. 2. share. In the new edition, "portion"
there's our information, 1. a division or share, or, portion. if we would have just took up this word G3444 μορφή morphe, figuratively, we would have missed the importance of it's meaning. because the base, or the root of the word in G3313 express the meaning literally not figuratively, and it's used is in wide application in scriptures. God is not divided, but shared, as ONE of HIMSELF as ADAM and EVE, ANOTHER of himself in flesh and blood.

understand oldhermit, the word of God is not changing if you have anything to do with me or not........ (smile). the truth stand, and if your doctrine is not true, it will fall as it is already. just like you refused to answer my question, not matter if you ask me a question I'll answer, one way or another, but I'll answer, because I'm a christian. don't let your feeling get in the way of your salvation, ok. Matthew 25:45 "Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me".