The creation of Eve

bbyrd009 said:

these are not assertions of "truth" though, they are commands, yes?
there have been a couple cleverly worded assertions that seemed valid until they were examined a bit further; but no one has even come close in like 6 months.

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Definition of assertion

1. : the act of asserting or something that is asserted: such as
2. a : insistent and positive affirming, maintaining, or defending (as of a right or attribute) an assertion of ownership/innocence
3. b : a declaration that something is the case He presented no evidence to support his assertions.
   Definition of ASSERTION

The assertion that one should love God with all your heart and soul and mind is indeed "a declaration that something is the case" and it is an assertion with evidence to support it. The evidence being the scripture aka Word of God.
Asserting that Christ is no longer in his resurrected body would be an assertion with "no evidence to support" it.

"ByGrace" said:

I don't feel that is an assumption. While Jesus was here, He had not been glorified, therefore we was not the head of His body....He had not yet died, or said "It is finished."

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Where is this written in scripture that he was not the head of his body?

"ByGrace" said:

On His resurrection He came into His glory once again. ( that which he had laid aside for 33 years) He was then the Head, and the Church His Body.

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He did not come into his glory at the resurrection. Evidence as usual from scripture;
John 20
She turned and said to Him, “Rabboni!” (which is to say, Teacher).
17 Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.’”

bbyrd009 said:

i think this is valid, considering the "I must leave, so that the Comforter may come" speech. Also, the "Body of Christ" passages should be considered, wherein Christ is deemed the "Head." And i think you are going to have other problems with the assumption that there is some other "place" to physically exist, or believing that Jesus might exist bodily in heaven iow.

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By all means reference scripture for any point you would like to make.

bbyrd009 said:

And i think you are going to have other problems with the assumption that there is some other "place" to physically exist, or believing that Jesus might exist bodily in heaven iow.

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So let's examine the problems you think are occurring. First "there is some other "place" to physically exist"
When Christ was resurrected he specifically told Mary not to touch him since he had not yet ascended to the father right?
So that means he is physical since he could be touched right? and the first thing he tells Mary is to go to the brethren and tell them that I am ascending to my father right? Well since his father exists in heaven then there is definitely another place to go.
So, a quick review:
1. Christ is physical
2. He is ascending to his Father (in heaven)(after speaking with Mary) and he tells Mary to give the brethren that exact message.

Thus, there is no problem Christ existed / exists in his resurrected body when he saw Mary and he was on his way to see his father who exists in heaven;

John 20
17 Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.’”

Then after this, after he had met Mary on the road and ascended to the Father he comes back;

19 On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jewish leaders, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 20 After he said this, he showed them his hands and side.

And Christ shows everyone his hands and his side in the body he was resurrected in which he can now let people touch and handle because he has already ascended to the Father. Further he even returns a week later;

26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.” 28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

and again he let's Thomas stick his hand into his side and through the nail holes in his hands. Further in another place he showed himself to the disciples before he left the earth after 40 days;

36And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. 37But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit. 38And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? 39Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. 40And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet. 41And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat? 42And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. 43And he took it, and did eat before them.

he corrected the troubling thoughts that arose in their minds in that they thought he might just be a spirit by telling them to touch his physical body. He further states plainly in Hebrew that a spirit hath not flesh and bones as you SEE ME HAVE and then to cap it all off he says give me something to eat. A spirit has no body to eat with.

bbyrd009 said:

i have no point to make here, that was a rebuttal. I do not know if it is possible to re-figure someone who was transfigured, and tbh i don't even know what "transfigured" means, except in the Biblical sense.

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Indeed most people don't know what the exact defining points of transfiguring are but, if we go by what was written about transfiguration in Matthew 17:1–8, the bodies that were witnessed (Christ, Moses and Elijah) were reported as having been observed by Peter, James and John with their eyes. Three people observed with their eyes the bodies of 2 already dead men and one soon to die. The key of course is that three witnesses observed three bodies of three men with their eyes and as Christ states a spirit has no body. So it should be quite clear from biblical witness that the glorified body will indeed be a physical body though it will be improved to a state that cannot currently be described in any scientific manner specifically.
This understanding goes hand in hand with the understanding that God made the physical earth to be inhabited by physical beings and that there will be a new earth for men to exist on and Christ will be there in the new Jerusalem.

God did not create the physical reality just to throw it away. The creation was good in their own words and it will again be good when sin is removed from it;

Romans 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. 23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

All of God's creation will be saved including the "body" that our spirit inhabits.

bbyrd009 said:

yes, we did this one already, and "resurrected" still does not mean "transfigured," so that is what has to be confronted i guess

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The only descriptor used by witnesses of the transfiguration was light being emitted by the body and clothes right? No other description was given so there can be no assumption that there was any other change to the flesh than that and as I have already pointed out Moses exhibited the same type of radiance or flesh emitting light when he returned from talking to God so, we know Moses was still flesh and bone which was transfigured to the eyes of the observers.

bbyrd009 said:

3You love evil rather than good, falsehood rather than speaking the truth. (as the counter-assertion)

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Both statements are assertions of truth since we have free will we can choose to go either way. Both are assertion of fact if you know the biblical account is God's word. For those who do not accept the biblical word as anything of value then there is no meaning in it for them thus, faith is the hinge factor.

bbyrd009 said:

as would asserting that Christ is still in His resurrected body, yes. You have valid arguments from Scripture for either pov.

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Actually you do not which was my point. The scripture does not assert that you will become a spirit or a spirit without a body as some are trying to infer from it. I invite you to reference any scripture that appears to assert that we will become spirits without a body.

It would seem that the question posed by this thread has again become sidetracked so I will begin another thread so everyone can discuss the spirit vs. physical body of Christ

bbyrd009 said:

ya, i was just throwing darts, and this was the standard i had in mind. The point i meant to make though, is that we usually do not use the term "truth" this...restrictively? We assert "the truth of the matter is _______, because this Scripture here ______," and then insist that that is the truth of the matter, like we know.

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You can use whatever methodology works for getting the intent across. As long as I can show the relevant scriptures along with the description of what the intended meaning is then how we get from point A to B is an open area.

bbyrd009 said:

So then, repeating a Commandment will i guess not be directly contradicted by other Scripture, so "absolute truth" is expanded from "God" to "God and His will," by making a general enough statement, and avoiding making any direct assertions, as in doctrines or whatever, the normal assertions we might make.

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A commandment of God is an assertion of his will. My asserting the we "should" obey his will is the would be the correct thing to do since this is after all the 'Christian only' section on a Christian site. How would it sound if I said you may want to do his will or there's a possibility that obeying his will might help.
I'm straight to the point as will Christ be when we stand before him to be judged.

bbyrd009 said:

But notice here how truth is at the same time relegated to an almost...imaginary? status, what we "should" do, that no one does except God. And even these are kind of suspect imo, as we are changing "shall" to "should," and of course "shall" is directly contradicted by other Scripture. so, can you poke any holes in this?

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I indeed do see how truth can be imaginary in very specific points of doctrine. This is why there are thousands of sects within Christianity alone. Veils have a tendency to make that happen.
If God's word was intended to be plainly understood in all respects then it would have been written differently and there would not be any veiling of understanding by God. So, it should be understood based on God's easily understandable area's that there are many who have their understanding veiled from properly dividing the word of God and this is by design.