Is Christ now only a spirt or still a resurrected man

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Peanut

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Our bodies in their current sinful state cannot inherit the kingdom. However, what about a body resurrected and corrected from error to perfection.

Keep in mind that God does not lie.

Luke 24:36And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. 37But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit. 38And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? 39Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. 40And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet. 41And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat? 42And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. 43And he took it, and did eat before them.

So, when confronted by two scriptures that appear to be in direct conflict how might one resolve the conflict? This is where the essence of dividing God's word correctly comes into play.
If you believe Jesus is a fleshly man in Heaven show where the scriptures state exactly that.

No, God does not lie. Jesus was God. God is a Spirit. When the scriptures tell us the perishable , flesh, cannot inherit the imperishable, enter Heaven , how does Jesus , who was God, violate that truth? And enter Heaven as flesh? When flesh was not breathed out by God the Father to make the Adam a living soul, but spirit was.

easter-graphics-cross-887372.gif
Ecclesiastes 12:7 "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it."

Genesis 2:7 “And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.”


John 20:19~22
On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jewish leaders, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 20 After he said this, he showed them his hands and side. The disciples were overjoyed when they saw the Lord.

21 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit."


Question: "Does Jesus have a physical body in heaven?"




 

Stranger

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If you believe Jesus is a fleshly man in Heaven show where the scriptures state exactly that.

No, God does not lie. Jesus was God. God is a Spirit. When the scriptures tell us the perishable , flesh, cannot inherit the imperishable, enter Heaven , how does Jesus , who was God, violate that truth? And enter Heaven as flesh? When flesh was not breathed out by God the Father to make the Adam a living soul, but spirit was.

easter-graphics-cross-887372.gif
Ecclesiastes 12:7 "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it."

Genesis 2:7 “And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.”


John 20:19~22
On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jewish leaders, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 20 After he said this, he showed them his hands and side. The disciples were overjoyed when they saw the Lord.

21 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit."


Question: "Does Jesus have a physical body in heaven?"




Yes, Jesus has a physical body in heaven. (Acts 1:9-11)

Stranger
 

pia

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If you believe Jesus is a fleshly man in Heaven show where the scriptures state exactly that.

No, God does not lie. Jesus was God. God is a Spirit. When the scriptures tell us the perishable , flesh, cannot inherit the imperishable, enter Heaven , how does Jesus , who was God, violate that truth? And enter Heaven as flesh? When flesh was not breathed out by God the Father to make the Adam a living soul, but spirit was.

easter-graphics-cross-887372.gif
Ecclesiastes 12:7 "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it."

Genesis 2:7 “And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.”


John 20:19~22
On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jewish leaders, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 20 After he said this, he showed them his hands and side. The disciples were overjoyed when they saw the Lord.

21 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit."


Question: "Does Jesus have a physical body in heaven?"



How did Jesus show Himself to Thomas, Saul ( Paul ) or the other disciples ? I was shocked to find out that He is able to be solid. But He no longer has is BLOOD flowing through Him, as that is still alive and well on the Mercy seat up there . I believe ( let me be clear, this is not something He has told me, just my own belief, as opposed to what He really did answer me). He is now filled With The glory of our Father. Yes he is a fully resurrected being, I have seen Him as Light and as a solid being. We can even touch Him, when we're with Him that way. Astonishing ! He is just THE BEST !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

pia

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If you believe Jesus is a fleshly man in Heaven show where the scriptures state exactly that.

No, God does not lie. Jesus was God. God is a Spirit. When the scriptures tell us the perishable , flesh, cannot inherit the imperishable, enter Heaven , how does Jesus , who was God, violate that truth? And enter Heaven as flesh? When flesh was not breathed out by God the Father to make the Adam a living soul, but spirit was.

easter-graphics-cross-887372.gif
Ecclesiastes 12:7 "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it."

Genesis 2:7 “And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.”


John 20:19~22
On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jewish leaders, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 20 After he said this, he showed them his hands and side. The disciples were overjoyed when they saw the Lord.

21 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit."


Question: "Does Jesus have a physical body in heaven?"



I think you are getting mixed up with corrupt flesh, but Jesus had no corruption in Him, and His flesh saw NO corruption. He as The son of Man ( as well as being The son of God ) was then able to sit down at the right hand of The Father, as God had intended from the start. :)
 

Peanut

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I think you are getting mixed up with corrupt flesh, but Jesus had no corruption in Him, and His flesh saw NO corruption. He as The son of Man ( as well as being The son of God ) was then able to sit down at the right hand of The Father, as God had intended from the start. :)
No, I'm not getting mixed up with corrupt flesh.
1 Corinthians 15:50-54
Now this I say, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither does corruption inherit incorruption.…

Article:
Flesh and Blood Cannot Enter the Kingdom of God


S. Cox, D.D.
 

pia

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lforrest

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I agree, Jesus has a physical body, but it is not like ours is now.

How many people do you know that can spirit themselves away, or appear in locked rooms as he did before Thomas after the resurrection.
 
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KBCid

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If you believe Jesus is a fleshly man in Heaven show where the scriptures state exactly that.
Ok.
Luke 24:36And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. 37But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit. 38And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? 39Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. 40And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet. 41And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat? 42And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. 43And he took it, and did eat before them.

Is Christ describing himself as a spirit? Yes or no?

No, God does not lie. Jesus was God. God is a Spirit.
The Son and the Father are two individuals. In original Hebrew God is typically defined as elohim which is a plural word.
God being two individuals presented as The Father and his Son existed before the creation and they are one in purpose.
We as humans created in the image of God are two individuals who are considered one flesh or one in purpose (and the twain shall be one). The entire creation of mankind was a reflection of the heavenly. Here is another scriptural evidence to back what I'm saying;
Psalm 45:7-8
“Your throne, O God (2nd), is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
You love righteousness and hate wickedness;
Therefore God (2nd), Your God (1st), has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”

The first Elohim is the one being addressed and since the second Elohim is the God of the first Elohim then you have God as two individuals. The first elohim is the Son, the second is the Father who has the power to anoint the Son. If you search diligently and let your understanding be opened by them you will see the various scriptures that tell of this Father and Son relationship. Here is one more;
Hosea 1:7 But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah, and will save them by the Lord their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, nor by horsemen.
The speaker is the Father and the he will save Judah by "the Lord their God" who of course is the Son. Two individuals working with one purpose. Here is one more;
1 Cor 15:28And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
The Son who was given power by the Father will retake his place in subjection to the Father as it is written. If God were a single being he could not be subject to himself. Just as your children should be subject to their parents so is the Son subject to the Father from who he came.

When the scriptures tell us the perishable , flesh, cannot inherit the imperishable, enter Heaven , how does Jesus , who was God, violate that truth? And enter Heaven as flesh? When flesh was not breathed out by God the Father to make the Adam a living soul, but spirit was.

You must read the scriptures carefully. Our perishable body will die but, it will be raised "incorruptible" "For this corruptible must put on incorruption". See we will not be separated from the corruptible body we die in but will be raised from the dead in that body and it will "put on incorruption" it will change from the mortal fallen state and advance to an empowered state of immortality.;

1 Cor 15:52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

The creation that the Father and Son made are not going to be done away with. The heaven and the earth and all the glorious creatures that they filled it with will once again return to their initial created state because;

John 3:16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

God loved the world not just the spirits that he put into those creations. God will redeem their collaborated creation because Father and Son did it together with wisdom and love.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it."
The spirit (ruach) is the same term used for both man and beast. It is not a reference to a continuously existing spirit as some would like to believe it is rather describing the breath or life force that allows a being to exist. see here in this scripture;
Psalm 146:3 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.
4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

When you die your breath or life force goes away and the you that is sentient ceases to exist until that day when all are resurrected to be judged.
 

KBCid

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I agree, Jesus has a physical body, but it is not like ours is now. How many people do you know that can spirit themselves away, or appear in locked rooms as he did before Thomas after the resurrection.
Indeed it is written;
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

The flesh that dies in weakness will be raised in power!
1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power...

So our bodies will indeed be a foundational part of the resurrected being but it will truly have differences from what our fallen bodies had. Just as Moses was given the power to change a staff into a snake and other such things that we cannot do so will our bodies take on a power that we have never experienced.
 

Peanut

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Ok.
Luke 24:36And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. 37But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit. 38And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? 39Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. 40And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet. 41And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat? 42And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. 43And he took it, and did eat before them.

Is Christ describing himself as a spirit? Yes or no?

No. And I believe you must read the scriptures carefully in order not to miss the difference that God was describing in that verse.
Jesus was God. Emmanuel, God with us.
After his resurrection Emmanuel appeared to those who knew him prior to the cross. At first they did not recognize him. If he was the same Emmanuel that they saw raised on the last sin altar, why would they not recognize him when he defeated death and appeared to show them his prophecy fulfilled?
God is a spirit. He is the Holy Spirit. The scriptures say we must worship him in Spirit. The scriptures do not say we must worship him in flesh.
In fact, if you search the scriptures you'll see the flesh is often described as a corruptible vessel. Even Adam became a living spirit, soul, once God breathed into his fleshly nostrils the breath of life. The flesh was nothing until God's breath enlivened it.
How then could that same God in his abode, Heaven, live as any version of flesh?

And if you believe Jesus is flesh in Heaven, how then do you explain Paul's writings that told us, through Jesus' teaching him so from the Spirit, that the corruptible, flesh, cannot inherit the incorruptible, Heaven?

I answered that first part of your reply because the rest of your argument builds on and repeats the same theme. That Jesus is today flesh in Heaven. I think for the sake of room it being one issue, spirit or flesh, we can arrive at a good council in short order this way. If I am mistaken, forgive me.

God Bless.

*edit-fixed quote box error.
 
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KBCid

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kbcid said:
Is Christ describing himself as a spirit? Yes or no?

No. And I believe you must read the scriptures carefully in order not to miss the difference that God was describing in that verse. Jesus was God. Emmanuel, God with us.
After his resurrection Emmanuel appeared to those who knew him prior to the cross. At first they did not recognize him. If he was the same Emmanuel that they saw raised on the last sin altar, why would they not recognize him when he defeated death and appeared to show them his prophecy fulfilled?

So you agree that Christ described his body as flesh and bone which he further states that a spirit does not have?
I do not see what difference you are hinting at. No one is denying that the Christ is called God. No one is denying that he is Emmanuel, God with us.
So, you have some question regarding Christ not being recognized after the resurrection of his body. Ok let's review those verses that deal with the subject starting with John 20.

Mary was the first to go to the tomb and find it empty and she immediately assumed that someone stole the body because 9 "For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead". Ok so none of the flock was expecting Christ to physically rise from the dead right? So eventually while she was crying about the theft of Christ's body she perceived a person and assumed it to be the gardener. Keep in mind she was crying (visual acuity) and apparently she had not looked in his direction but for a few moments because when Christ called her by name it was then that she recognized him and it states clearly that she turned toward him since apparently she was not looking in his direction.
At this point Mary is happy and runs to give the message from Christ to the rest of the disciples. So now the disciples know he is risen physically and there is no missing body. So, Christ then appears to them on that same day and apparently those disciples had no problem recognizing Christ since there was nothing stated in the text to indicate any visual change from the disciples perspective. I would further point out that if Christ had looked quite different then the disciples would not have believed it was him since as I have already shown you none of them were expecting him to physically rise from the dead. If he had looked different then they would have considered him an imposter / liar etc. etc.
Now a week later he appears again for Thomas to examine the wounds on his resurrected body and Thomas who was a diehard disbeliever of the resurrected Christ (even after being told by everyone) as the scripture states, had no problem recognizing Christ right? Who would have had more reason to disbelieve that it was Christ than Thomas? and notice that Christ states : 29 ...Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed. Thomas saw and touched the risen savior and believed.

Now there is another account of non-recognition in Luke 24;
15 And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them. 16 But their eyes were holden that they should not know him.

In these verses we find that recognition was withheld from them. If Christ did not look the same then there would be no reason for their eyes to be "holden that they should not know him". It should be quite clear that Christ was resurrected in the body he died in and made the rounds to see all of his flock and was accepted by them.

God is a spirit. He is the Holy Spirit. The scriptures say we must worship him in Spirit. The scriptures do not say we must worship him in flesh. In fact, if you search the scriptures you'll see the flesh is often described as a corruptible vessel. Even Adam became a living spirit, soul, once God breathed into his fleshly nostrils the breath of life. The flesh was nothing until God's breath enlivened it. How then could that same God in his abode, Heaven, live as any version of flesh?

God the Father is indeed spirit only and his Son who is also considered God but is a separate being from the Father who he came from wants all his intelligent creations to worship him in spirit. Is there any reason we cannot worship him in spirit while still within the temple of our body (that they made)? When referring to worship in spirit you should understand that under the Mosaic law the people were only going through the motions of worship with their physical parts and not in a spiritual manner which is why Christ speaking to the multitudes he was quite specific about this form of spiritual sin in his sermon on the mount. here is a sample from it;
Matt 5:27Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

So you ask how could God exist in a fleshly manner in heaven... God the Father will always be spirit however, he allowed his Son to take on the fleshly form because they both loved the creation and so that we would have a man as an advocate to represent us to the Father as it is written;
1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus

And if you believe Jesus is flesh in Heaven, how then do you explain Paul's writings that told us, through Jesus' teaching him so from the Spirit, that the corruptible, flesh, cannot inherit the incorruptible, Heaven?

Because as noted above there were those who felt that simply obeying the law through fleshly works believed they were saved by those works so, the spirit was making sure that they understood that simply performing the actions of the law in our flesh does not give a heritable pass to heaven. The simple law of Moses was a beginners guide to understanding God and with it they were supposed to grasp that what God desired of man in his fleshly actions he also desired of them in their spiritual actions. I will post the rest of that part of the sermon so it can be clear what God wants and why the actions of the flesh did not give a pass to heaven;
Matt 5:20For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
21Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: 22But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
27Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. 29And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. 30And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Did you notice the ending scripture? Why would your whole body be cast into hell if you are only going to be a spirit anyway? Why should anyone care about that which they believe will not exist after death.

I answered that first part of your reply because the rest of your argument builds on and repeats the same theme. That Jesus is today flesh in Heaven. I think for the sake of room it being one issue, spirit or flesh, we can arrive at a good council in short order this way. If I am mistaken, forgive me.
God Bless.

You are not mistaken. If any single part prevents the understanding of the whole then it is your God commanded duty to study it to see if it is truth or error.
I am submitting to you the understanding that the spirit has opened to me (which I prayed for since a child) and I have tested the spirit as instructed against the written word. I have checked these things not simply against the 'english' translation but to the most original words possible whether they be Hebrew or greek however, in the end I am not asking you to believe in me or the words that I write on their own. I will as always direct you to the only source that can give you proper understanding.... God, so that you can pray for his guidance.
 

Peanut

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So you agree that Christ described his body as flesh and bone which he further states that a spirit does not have?
I do not see what difference you are hinting at. No one is denying that the Christ is called God. No one is denying that he is Emmanuel, God with us.
So, you have some question regarding Christ not being recognized after the resurrection of his body. Ok let's review those verses that deal with the subject starting with John 20.

Mary was the first to go to the tomb and find it empty and she immediately assumed that someone stole the body because 9 "For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead". Ok so none of the flock was expecting Christ to physically rise from the dead right? So eventually while she was crying about the theft of Christ's body she perceived a person and assumed it to be the gardener. Keep in mind she was crying (visual acuity) and apparently she had not looked in his direction but for a few moments because when Christ called her by name it was then that she recognized him and it states clearly that she turned toward him since apparently she was not looking in his direction.
At this point Mary is happy and runs to give the message from Christ to the rest of the disciples. So now the disciples know he is risen physically and there is no missing body. So, Christ then appears to them on that same day and apparently those disciples had no problem recognizing Christ since there was nothing stated in the text to indicate any visual change from the disciples perspective. I would further point out that if Christ had looked quite different then the disciples would not have believed it was him since as I have already shown you none of them were expecting him to physically rise from the dead. If he had looked different then they would have considered him an imposter / liar etc. etc.
Now a week later he appears again for Thomas to examine the wounds on his resurrected body and Thomas who was a diehard disbeliever of the resurrected Christ (even after being told by everyone) as the scripture states, had no problem recognizing Christ right? Who would have had more reason to disbelieve that it was Christ than Thomas? and notice that Christ states : 29 ...Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed. Thomas saw and touched the risen savior and believed.

Now there is another account of non-recognition in Luke 24;
15 And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them. 16 But their eyes were holden that they should not know him.

In these verses we find that recognition was withheld from them. If Christ did not look the same then there would be no reason for their eyes to be "holden that they should not know him". It should be quite clear that Christ was resurrected in the body he died in and made the rounds to see all of his flock and was accepted by them.



God the Father is indeed spirit only and his Son who is also considered God but is a separate being from the Father who he came from wants all his intelligent creations to worship him in spirit. Is there any reason we cannot worship him in spirit while still within the temple of our body (that they made)? When referring to worship in spirit you should understand that under the Mosaic law the people were only going through the motions of worship with their physical parts and not in a spiritual manner which is why Christ speaking to the multitudes he was quite specific about this form of spiritual sin in his sermon on the mount. here is a sample from it;
Matt 5:27Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

So you ask how could God exist in a fleshly manner in heaven... God the Father will always be spirit however, he allowed his Son to take on the fleshly form because they both loved the creation and so that we would have a man as an advocate to represent us to the Father as it is written;
1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus



Because as noted above there were those who felt that simply obeying the law through fleshly works believed they were saved by those works so, the spirit was making sure that they understood that simply performing the actions of the law in our flesh does not give a heritable pass to heaven. The simple law of Moses was a beginners guide to understanding God and with it they were supposed to grasp that what God desired of man in his fleshly actions he also desired of them in their spiritual actions. I will post the rest of that part of the sermon so it can be clear what God wants and why the actions of the flesh did not give a pass to heaven;
Matt 5:20For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
21Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: 22But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
27Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. 29And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. 30And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Did you notice the ending scripture? Why would your whole body be cast into hell if you are only going to be a spirit anyway? Why should anyone care about that which they believe will not exist after death.



You are not mistaken. If any single part prevents the understanding of the whole then it is your God commanded duty to study it to see if it is truth or error.
I am submitting to you the understanding that the spirit has opened to me (which I prayed for since a child) and I have tested the spirit as instructed against the written word. I have checked these things not simply against the 'english' translation but to the most original words possible whether they be Hebrew or greek however, in the end I am not asking you to believe in me or the words that I write on their own. I will as always direct you to the only source that can give you proper understanding.... God, so that you can pray for his guidance.


Hi, I'm currently in the middle of something. I have this thread open in my browser and I saw the last part of your reply concerning the question about Hell. And why would the passage say our bodies would be cast there if flesh had nothing to do with anything after we died. Paraphrasing your remarks.
In brief I wanted to address that at least in the time I have allotted between projects. I want to honor your time spent in the rest of the reply when I too have more time.

Maybe the teaching said the body is cast into Hell so that the student, the hearer of the teaching, would be able to intimately relate to the destiny of eternal damnation in Hell if they could imagine their present self there.
Otherwise, if spirit was not what would enter Hell because the body, as scripture tells us , returns to the dust from whence it came after we die, and the spirit to the Father that gave it, how would there be an exception for that flesh, not returning to dust, if the destiny of the unrepentant sinners flesh was Hell?
And if an unrepentant sinner were aware of that verse concerning flesh entering eternal Hell, wouldn't it be an out , a means of avoiding that fate, if after they were dead they prescribed in their will that their mortal remains be cremated? So that there is no flesh to enter Hell?

That's all the time I have right now, but I will reply further to all of your post when time allows my full attention.

God Bless.
 

KBCid

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Maybe the teaching said the body is cast into Hell so that the student, the hearer of the teaching, would be able to intimately relate to the destiny of eternal damnation in Hell if they could imagine their present self there.
One can certainly imagine any number of rationales but, the spirit does not tell lies. If there is no body after death then there can be no reason for the spirit to make a reference to it continuing on after death.

Otherwise, if spirit was not what would enter Hell because the body, as scripture tells us , returns to the dust from whence it came after we die, and the spirit to the Father that gave it, how would there be an exception for that flesh, not returning to dust, if the destiny of the unrepentant sinners flesh was Hell?

Your body does return to dust first, then your body is rebuilt by God at the resurrection so there are no lies being told in those scriptures. A resurrection is a return to existence. The only difference is that your body will conform to what it was originally intended to be and not have all the error that it had accumulated since the fall. So, the blind will see, the deaf will hear, the cripple will be whole. You resurrected body will be the physical perfection that it should have been had there never been a fall.

And if an unrepentant sinner were aware of that verse concerning flesh entering eternal Hell, wouldn't it be an out , a means of avoiding that fate, if after they were dead they prescribed in their will that their mortal remains be cremated? So that there is no flesh to enter Hell?

No matter what one may do to the flesh they are not and were not the maker of it. If God wants you to exist then he can reform your body at any moment he desires just as he initially formed the body of Adam.
I am also urged tell you there is no eternal hell that your body and soul will exist in for eternity. People will be destroyed in the hell fire described and to be destroyed means you no longer exist. This is the fate of the unbeliever or unrepentant person they will cease to exist after the judgment and subsequent placing into the fire.

Edit: I was urged to let him speak directly to you through his word about our resurrected bodies;
Ezekiel 37:1 The hand of the Lord was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the Lord, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones, 2 And caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, there were very many in the open valley; and, lo, they were very dry.3 And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord God, thou knowest.
4 Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the Lord.5 Thus saith the Lord God unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:6 And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the Lord.
7 So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone.8 And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them.9 Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord God; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. 13 And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, 14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord.
 
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Sword

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I think the misunderstanding here, is simply the inability to imagine that the spirit is greater than the flesh. So many just read into the scriptures what they want to hear. But that is just the flesh talking.
So funny I was thinking about posting a thread asking all to add what is spirirt and what is flesh daily. Most of what Christins do is flesh I would say well over 90% flesh daily. Is how we live.
 
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pia

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So funny I was thinking about posting a thread asking all to add what is spirirt and what is flesh daily. Most of what Christins do is flesh I would say well over 90% flesh daily. Is how we live.
Sadly, often so, but He always keeps a remnant, who do have ears to hear......Praise Him :)
 
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pia

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One can certainly imagine any number of rationales but, the spirit does not tell lies. If there is no body after death then there can be no reason for the spirit to make a reference to it continuing on after death.



Your body does return to dust first, then your body is rebuilt by God at the resurrection so there are no lies being told in those scriptures. A resurrection is a return to existence. The only difference is that your body will conform to what it was originally intended to be and not have all the error that it had accumulated since the fall. So, the blind will see, the deaf will hear, the cripple will be whole. You resurrected body will be the physical perfection that it should have been had there never been a fall.



No matter what one may do to the flesh they are not and were not the maker of it. If God wants you to exist then he can reform your body at any moment he desires just as he initially formed the body of Adam.
I am also urged tell you there is no eternal hell that your body and soul will exist in for eternity. People will be destroyed in the hell fire described and to be destroyed means you no longer exist. This is the fate of the unbeliever or unrepentant person they will cease to exist after the judgment and subsequent placing into the fire.

Edit: I was urged to let him speak directly to you through his word about our resurrected bodies;
Ezekiel 37:1 The hand of the Lord was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the Lord, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones, 2 And caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, there were very many in the open valley; and, lo, they were very dry.3 And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord God, thou knowest.
4 Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the Lord.5 Thus saith the Lord God unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:6 And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the Lord.
7 So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone.8 And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them.9 Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord God; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. 13 And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, 14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord.
That certainly sounds like a more merciful way to me ( destroying them rather than them burning in some hell hole somewhere forever )... I can't help but shudder every time I think of all the people who don't want a bar of what we are trying to share with them, and MOSTLY because they can't dis-associate Jesus from religion ( and all that conjures up in the average persons mind ), which shows what a very sad state the self proclaimed church and all the offspring is actually in. I mean we need to think.......What good can possibly come out of an institution which does it's best to alienate everyone.. I admit, some have tried in the past decade or so, to apologize for all their previous mistakes, but if they really meant it, THEY WOULD CHANGE, and they would then be able to bring the lost in... Oh yes, one can only dream !
 

bbyrd009

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imo it is dangerously self-centered to believe that anyone who does not share your dogma is "lost," and a better concept of "saved and lost" might be gained by watching/believing what people do, rather than what they say
 

101G

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Our bodies in their current sinful state cannot inherit the kingdom. However, what about a body resurrected and corrected from error to perfection.

Keep in mind that God does not lie.

Luke 24:36And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. 37But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit. 38And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? 39Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. 40And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet. 41And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat? 42And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. 43And he took it, and did eat before them.

So, when confronted by two scriptures that appear to be in direct conflict how might one resolve the conflict? This is where the essence of dividing God's word correctly comes into play.
GINOLJC. first correction, "Our bodies in their current sinful state cannot inherit the kingdom". this is an error. scripture, 1 Corinthians 15:50 "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption". flesh and bone can inherit the kingdom, ONLY WITH BLOOD IT CANNOT. the Lord Jesus, (who is Spirit, the diversified Share) have a flesh and bone body, but no BLOOD. Luke 24:39 "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have". NO BLOOD, why, for NATURAL LIFE IS IN THE BLOOD, scripture. Leviticus 17:11 "For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul". Leviticus 17:14 "For it is the life of all flesh; the blood of it is for the life thereof: therefore I said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall eat the blood of no manner of flesh: for the life of all flesh is the blood thereof: whosoever eateth it shall be cut off".

Now as for the Light. physical light of this WORLD is only a deception, it's not the real LIGHT. God is LIGHT, and not Physical Light. consciousness, the true LIGHT is not physical. consciousness: (a) the state of being awake and aware of one's surroundings. (b) the awareness or perception of something by a person. (c) the fact of awareness by the mind of itself and the world. the Light of this world is only world consciousness. Genesis 1:3 "And God said, Let there be light: and there was light". Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things". always remember this is a CREATED world, NOT THE REAL WORLD. I suggest one to view this video on PHYSICAL LIGHT. https://www.youtube.com/watchv=n2_f_LDtyaw

Colossians 2:8 "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ".
 

Peanut

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One can certainly imagine any number of rationales but, the spirit does not tell lies. If there is no body after death then there can be no reason for the spirit to make a reference to it continuing on after death.



Your body does return to dust first, then your body is rebuilt by God at the resurrection so there are no lies being told in those scriptures. A resurrection is a return to existence. The only difference is that your body will conform to what it was originally intended to be and not have all the error that it had accumulated since the fall. So, the blind will see, the deaf will hear, the cripple will be whole. You resurrected body will be the physical perfection that it should have been had there never been a fall.



No matter what one may do to the flesh they are not and were not the maker of it. If God wants you to exist then he can reform your body at any moment he desires just as he initially formed the body of Adam.
I am also urged tell you there is no eternal hell that your body and soul will exist in for eternity. People will be destroyed in the hell fire described and to be destroyed means you no longer exist. This is the fate of the unbeliever or unrepentant person they will cease to exist after the judgment and subsequent placing into the fire.

Edit: I was urged to let him speak directly to you through his word about our resurrected bodies;
Ezekiel 37:1 The hand of the Lord was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the Lord, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones, 2 And caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, there were very many in the open valley; and, lo, they were very dry.3 And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord God, thou knowest.
4 Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the Lord.5 Thus saith the Lord God unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:6 And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the Lord.
7 So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone.8 And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them.9 Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord God; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. 13 And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, 14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord.


I don't know where you're getting the impetus to make claims that the scripture does not lie. I've not read anyone here who imparts the notion that they do.
Are you taking the Bible literally?