(Dunamite;31332)
When Jesus ascended into Heaven he did not leave us as orphans. He left us with his Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit gives us spiritual gifts and something else. He has also given us koinonia or community. This is a body of believers who support, comfort and encourage one another.The church is one expression of this, but not the only one. You can meet informally in small groups. You do not have to go to a specific church or to belong to a name branded group. However, you should not practice your faith in isolation. this can be dangerous and it is not what God wants.We are told repeated throughout the NT to love one another and to obey God. This is an imperative. It is not a choice. It is the essence of what makes us Christian. In 1 John 2 - 3, John talks about what authentic Christians are like. We live out what Jesus taught us and put it into action. We cannot keep what we have to ourselves. He repeatedly mentions the fact that we are to love and meet each other's needs. These are actions. You cannot be active by yourself. You need others to share your love with.I understand why some people avoid church. They can be unfriendly places for authentic Christians. We see hypocrisy and judgmentalism or lack of acceptance. However, not all churches are the same and none is perfect. We will always see flaws.I go to a church, but I also belong to a small group for Bible study. There is a level of intimacy, transparency and trust that develops that is special. This cannot be duplicated in a large group. We do all of the things that we do in church. We sing, pray and study the word. The tone is different though. We share equally and openly. We do not hold back, thinking that others will judge us. We know that what is said in the group stays in the group. Of the two experiences, I prefer the small group setting. The reason is that it allows me to grow more and to interact with other believers on a level that is way beyond what happens in church. I also like church. I close my eyes when I sing. I close out everything, except me and God. My worship in an offering to God. I don't care that nobody else raises their hands or what they think of me. At first, I was uncomfortable, but now it is just something that I do. I know that others do it as well. We are few, but it is a start.I was brought up to avoid open displays of faith. We sat politely in the pews, listening. When I raise my arms I am trying to participate and it isn't about being seen as pious. It is about being involved. It must make some people uncomfortable, but now we have gone to two services and I attend the contemporary one. The music is more upbeat and there is more diversity in the way that we worship.Some churches are all about conformity. I refuse to conform. I would rather change churches than to short change God.Blessings,Dunamite
Wow, truly great there Dunamite, thanks. Thank you all as well for sharing here. I really love these discussions as so many of you paint such beautiful pictures, examples, and share such great scripture, etc, each retaining and giving off their own individual shades of color. Reminds me of a description I heard from a minister awhile back describing God's church. I heard him describe God's family (the church) as one of those beautiful and multi-colored stain glass windows you often see in a church; each segment representing a different church and shinning forth its own unique color of God's awesome Spirit.I pretty much had everything that I wanted to say taken out of my mouth thus far, but I am not one known in brevity so here I go. If you have other things to do then by all means, please. This is here if you want it as I have the time for the time being. I guess to be clear since there was only some discord on whether or not you have to go to church I would say that obviously you don't HAVE to, but that you should try to find one. You shouldn't think yourself okay without one, however, obviously there are extenuating circumstances and God understands that. Others have listed the scripture and the reasons as to why we should find ourselves in church so I won't go there.That said I was raised Roman Catholic and was basically told that you have to go to church or you wont make it to heaven. I agree with that 120% to the umpteenth power, and even then a little more. But thats only because I know the Church to be the Body of believers in Christ! PBBSSSTT!!! You kinda need that, its rather important concerning salvation and what not.Yes, churches and church are also these other things mentioned; our body being the temple, us gathering in His name for worship, etc. I have rather come to know the church as a dynamic concerning the relationship with God and His people, or even just individuals or smaller groups of that body. I believe The Church, however, to be the collective Body of saints in Christ.But it is definitely not the sporting flagship of a specific cult where in you have to sit your little heinie down on a pew everyday to be found acceptable in the Eyes of God. The God I know is so much bigger than that and doesn't make vain the sacrifice of His only Son just to demand we sit our britches down in church everyday for salvation.We are to come together to give glory to the most High God because of the salvation He already paid the price for, not to earn it. I give the glory to Christ and not my ability to rise to the march of placing my physical body within a certain hand made building during pre-specified allocations of time and day. This is man's ways and represents an institution more than a Holy Temple of God.There is a candle in some of these churches that I have been told lites with and in the presence of Christ and the Holy Spirit. I've seen this candle, for years I've seen this candle, every Sunday miraculously lit. If Christ was there and manifest in the Holy Spirit as a flame He sure wouldn't need a wax candle or a wick, let alone an alter boy to lite it for Him.The same is said for his church, the building is for convenience form the elements etc as is any building where you might meet to worship God. But for the Holy Spirit I did feel Him in these churches because I went there with the mindset and heart to seek Him. But I never heard the word in them. I've been to many Catholic churches and never heard the word, or felt God exalted and lifted up. This is my experience obviously and not that of everyone though I will say I have met a few there in whom the Holy Spirit was working.I came across a church in Arizona. If I remember it was called Lord of Life or Word of Life, Ron Woodworth was the pastor. It was nondenominational and the most amazing church I had ever been to. It was so filled with the Holy Spirit, not a high roller type, but filled with all gifts: tongues, prophecy, interpretation of tongues, healing, exhortation and on and on. People shared everything there too it was really amazing. I remember once this old, and I mean old lady came hobbling up to my wife and I and slipped something into my front shirt pocket. She said, "don't look now but when you get home thats for you, God told me that you needed it more than I."My wife and I were hurting at the time and I mean bad, really bad financially and we were not sure what to do. I got home to find a hundred dollar bill in my pocket. Sure a hundred dollars is not a huge sum of money, but is sure is a blessing when you have nothing. God always provided for us when going there to this church and it was always enough to trust in His Spirit. Oh man I am getting excited just talking about it. This church was amazing and SO IN THE WORD! It was amazing because God was really there and GOD IS AMAZING. I feel so sorry for all these dead churches that deny the Holy Spirit, many even in doctrine, and all these lambs being led to the slaughter.We eventually had to move away from there and I was sad to have to say goodbye. I am a pretty strong individual, work out, operated a couple of landscaping companies in my day and currently at that time, worked bob cats, trenchers, played basketball, rod dirt bikes, tried to avoid the occasional scuffle but that didn't always happen. However in that church on every Sunday I would be in TEARS and I mean in tears of joy and gratitude to be there in the LOVING PRESENCE of an AWESOME and POWERFUL GOD. My wife would constantly ask me whats wrong and I could never quite explain it to here, I guess it's just what happens to me when I meet the Lord, I cry.There were a few other churches in Arizona that we tried before we found that one, and I must say that there were some other good ones out there. One we found working in great power of prophesy. There was a couple there that would lay hands on you and prophesy consoling you not only on things from your past, but future things to come and even revelation concerning one's gifts. It was very edifying because it filled you with an incredible hope being reassured in things that only God knew and testifying in the Spirit to those truths.Wow, I'm really all over the place here, but in the end I want to ask for your prayers in finding a good church where I live now. I live in Vancouver, WA state, USA. I have yet to find any thing that compares to what I left behind. I will keep in prayer the others that are searching for a family so to speak, please pray for me if I should come to mind.Your brother in Christ,Mark