Will the US survive bible prophacy??

(crooner;31218)
Zec 12 says Isreal will be alone, but is America part of Isreal or not? If all countries will abandon Isreal wont the US. Even though we are a corrupt country we still have a lot of believers, unlike Sodom and Gomorra. I know we are a target now because we support Isreal, but according to Zec 12 that wont always be the case.
America is Isreal!

(tomwebster;54090)
America is Isreal!
I second that, and as Whirlwind also said, there is no doubt if one looks at bible prophecy and archeology where the lost tribes of Israel ended up.Basically to put it in 25 words or less---- the fate of Israel in the Tribulation is that of America as well.I wish my buddy "Doppelganger" came back here. He was into this as well. We met on another Christian forum and I invited him over to this one as many here understand about the tribes of Israel, but then he left to go to yet another forum.

(kriss;53957)
Agreed Verzanumiwe (US.)are part of true Israel
I would like to say this though, to avoid any misunderstanding. The true people of God are not the House of Israel or the Jews/Judah, one of the tribes of the House of Israel. The true people of God are the Church. The House of Israel was only promise physical blessings, but God’s true people, the Church is promise eternal life and on top of that, they will inherit all things. The Israelites were not promise by God that they would inherit all things, just a small portion of land on (The Gentiles would would have the greater portion) the earth. Only those who are filled with the Holy Spirit (members of His Church) is promise to sit on Jesus' throne and rule with Him.

(verzanumi24;54341)
I would like to say this though, to avoid any misunderstanding. The true people of God are not the House of Israel or the Jews/Judah, one of the tribes of the House of Israel. The true people of God are the Church. The House of Israel was only promise physical blessings, but God’s true people, the Church is promise eternal life and on top of that, they will inherit all things. The Israelites were not promise by God that they would inherit all things, just a small portion of land on (The Gentiles would would have the greater portion) the earth. Only those who are filled with the Holy Spirit (members of His Church) is promise to sit on Jesus' throne and rule with Him.
I can see where you are coming from, and spiritually speaking this is all that ultimately counts. What you just pointed out is the difference between the election of grace and the election of race.Many Christians however, do not discern that when we talk about Israel, we are talking election of race. They assume that "elect" means of grace only. They do not see the difference between the two any more than they see the house of Israel and the house of Judah differences.The purposes for the elect of race are these:1) that the elect of race is the vehicle that the elect of grace should come to be a light to the world. Percentage-wise, more Anglo-Saxon, Celtic, and NW European peoples traditionally accepted Christianity than did the Jew.2) For those people who have not accepted grace, that God would vindicate Himself to these people and the rest of the fallen world that He indeed keeps His word and carried out His purpose for the ages.As for what was promised to the race, it is of course a lot more than just a small portion of land. It was to have many physical seed, a great nation, many nations (which means more than just the land of Israel, but the world), kings, military power and might, material blessings, colonizations, and so forth all which were never fulfilled in the Jew.

(tim_from_pa;54351)
I can see where you are coming from, and spiritually speaking this is all that ultimately counts. What you just pointed out is the difference between the election of grace and the election of race.Many Christians however, do not discern that when we talk about Israel, we are talking election of race. They assume that "elect" means of grace only. They do not see the difference between the two any more than they see the house of Israel and the house of Judah differences.
Unfortunately many "Christians" do not really study the scriptures; they would rather be spoon fed, being given the same few Bible verses that they are familiar with over and over again, rarely if ever venturing out side of those. Because they lack understanding of whom are the true people of God, many blindly support the state of Israel in whatever it does, even when it has committed murder....in there mind the state of Israel can do no wrong. They dishonor their calling by believing the Jews are the chosen people of God. If Israel is the people of God, then where does the Church fit into all this? The truth is that the House of Israel was a type of the true people of God....they were a shadow of the Church that was to come.This is not to say that God has completely rejected the Jews or the House of Israel. On the contrary, God will use spiritual Jews (the Church) to save not only the Jews, but the House of Israel as well. In fact, God will use spiritual Jews to save the entire world when Jesus returns to sit upon His throne. It is at this time God will rescue the Israelites a second time from slavery as He did from Egypt.

I agree 110%, Verzanumi.

many blindly support the state of Israel in whatever it does, even when it has committed murder.
I would like to see evidence for that statement and I hope you have some...no faith has any room to talk about murdering folks do you think?

(Jerusalem Junkie;54366)
I would like to see evidence for that statement and I hope you have some...no faith has any room to talk about murdering folks do you think?
That's the problem; whenever it’s been presented it is immediately dismissed. So to those people there is no evidence. But whenever report about crime/murder committed by Palestinians, no matter the source these same people have a different response.

Hate to say it but murder is murder no matter who does it....on the other hand no one mentions all those rockets they are continually launching at Israel and then they expect not to be struck back. What do they think that Israel is just going to sit there like a duck in a target shoot and take it. In all fairness, there are pros and cons on both sides of the fence I guess it just depends on which side of the fence your being shot at from huh.

(Jerusalem Junkie;54375)
Hate to say it but murder is murder no matter who does it....on the other hand no one mentions all those rockets they are continually launching at Israel and then they expect not to be struck back. What do they think that Israel is just going to sit there like a duck in a target shoot and take it. In all fairness, there are pros and cons on both sides of the fence I guess it just depends on which side of the fence your being shot at from huh.
I must say I also agree with you JJ. I think Israel, like the US was given a bad rap by the world. Yes, there are injustices and problems, but the rest of the world is the same way. As us Christians would mostly agree, it's man's nature and has nothing to do with the subject at hand.For example, I claim that the United States is the tribe of Manasseh (whether one wants to believe it or not). The point being is that I teach it is God ordained. But on the other hand (or face) I believe some of these conspiracy theories regarding the US government.The former appeals to people that believe in British-Israelism. The latter to Christians that compare the US to Babylon and may know nothing about British-Israelism but believe the US is Gentile. A contradiction? Hardly. One must see it in the proper context in each case.

(tim_from_pa;54384)
I must say I also agree with you JJ. I think Israel, like the US was given a bad rap by the world. Yes, there are injustices and problems, but the rest of the world is the same way. As us Christians would mostly agree, it's man's nature and has nothing to do with the subject at hand.
On the contrary, it has been the US that gives the impression that every where is bad except us. The thing is some Americans become defensive when the truth about America is talked about. I have said in the past that America can dish it out, but cannot take it when it’s being served back to them.From my experience America is not better than those arias of the world that it criticizes, and I would say that the state of Israel is no more Holy than anywhere else in this world.

(verzanumi24;54388)
On the contrary, it has been the US that gives the impression that every where is bad except us. The thing is some Americans become defensive when the truth about America is talked about. I have said in the past that America can dish it out, but cannot take it when it’s being served back to them.From my experience America is not better than those arias of the world that it criticizes, and I would say that the state of Israel is no more Holy than anywhere else in this world.
You make a good point....the US is far from perfect...but I will stay here....

(Jerusalem Junkie;54395)
You make a good point....the US is far from perfect...but I will stay here....
I understand, as far as I am concern I set my loyalty and heart is on the establishment of the kingdom of God....I have no loyalty to any Country; wherever I am I try to be grateful and make the best of it. Because God is the one who guides my life and wherever I am it’s because God want me to be there, not because it’s the best place on the earth, but because He has something in mind for me, that will glorify Him. And I would say this also applies to all Christians around the world, wherever they are God is the one who puts them there, and if He sees that that stage of there life has been accomplished He might place him or her somewhere else, or provide another situation for them to glorify Him.

(verzanumi24;54388)
On the contrary, it has been the US that gives the impression that every where is bad except us. The thing is some Americans become defensive when the truth about America is talked about. I have said in the past that America can dish it out, but cannot take it when it’s being served back to them.From my experience America is not better than those arias of the world that it criticizes, and I would say that the state of Israel is no more Holy than anywhere else in this world.
I believe that the United States was God ordained, but I don't think much of the "shepherds"---- same problem as with ancient Israel.Most Americans are treated like mushrooms---- kept in the dark and fed bullsplat. I've been saying for a long time that the likes of us common folks getting our ideas out there for all the world to see on the Internet is severely threatening to the authorities both in the ecclesiastical world and the political. That's why there were posts made recently that the likes of the Internet as we know it will soon disappear. While I think that's far more complex than can be practically done, I believe that's one conspiracy theory not too hard to accept in principle. Examples of rampant schizophrenic paranoia comes from the US government itself (I know because the Pentagon scrutinized my site) or even private super-mega corporations that are anti-constitutional and anti-American such as Viacom and the RIAA. I don't think the average person is this dogmatically extreme as those in authority although they ignorantly let these types of people have power, so we are all to somewhat blame, even if it is because we are too fearful (most likely) of the consequences of overthrowing such authority.Here's one "conspiracy theory" that is not too hard to accept. The flight 93 crash site is going to have a memorial built shaped like an Islamic Crescent and it faces Northeast straight toward Mecca. I can sign petitions, but I doubt if it will help because the "experts" in authority say that it is not a crescent (looks like one to me) and does not point to Mecca (bullsplat--- it does) and they will do what they want anyway because the money is in their hands.http://www.crescentofbetrayal.com/Another example is a judge allowing Viacom to collect IP addresses from youtube watchers. How blatantly is that an invasion of privacy? It doesn't take a 3-year-old to see that is clearly wrong. What can I say? There's another judge that must lean his head over a toilet and relieve himself through the ears.Incredible.

(tim_from_pa;54433)
I believe that the United States was God ordained, but I don't think much of the "shepherds"---- same problem as with ancient Israel.Most Americans are treated like mushrooms---- kept in the dark and fed bullsplat. I've been saying for a long time that the likes of us common folks getting our ideas out there for all the world to see on the Internet is severely threatening to the authorities both in the ecclesiastical world and the political. That's why there were posts made recently that the likes of the Internet as we know it will soon disappear. While I think that's far more complex than can be practically done, I believe that's one conspiracy theory not too hard to accept in principle. Examples of rampant schizophrenic paranoia comes from the US government itself (I know because the Pentagon scrutinized my site) or even private super-mega corporations that are anti-constitutional and anti-American such as Viacom and the RIAA. I don't think the average person is this dogmatically extreme as those in authority although they ignorantly let these types of people have power, so we are all to somewhat blame, even if it is because we are too fearful (most likely) of the consequences of overthrowing such authority.Here's one "conspiracy theory" that is not too hard to accept. The flight 93 crash site is going to have a memorial built shaped like an Islamic Crescent and it faces Northeast straight toward Mecca. I can sign petitions, but I doubt if it will help because the "experts" in authority say that it is not a crescent (looks like one to me) and does not point to Mecca (bullsplat--- it does) and they will do what they want anyway because the money is in their hands.http://www.crescentofbetrayal.com/Another example is a judge allowing Viacom to collect IP addresses from youtube watchers. How blatantly is that an invasion of privacy? It doesn't take a 3-year-old to see that is clearly wrong. What can I say? There's another judge that must lean his head over a toilet and relieve himself through the ears.Incredible.
I agree with everything you said, expect the part where you believe that the US is God ordained part, which seems as if you’re saying other nations are not. The scriptures tell us that God sets up kings/leaders and that he set the boundaries for nations. So all nations are ordained by God, but take that to mean that God approves of what they do. Satan is still the god of this world, but God where it pleases Him in order to fulfill or aid in fulfilling Bible prophecies.

(verzanumi24;54466)
I agree with everything you said, expect the part where you believe that the US is God ordained part, which seems as if you’re saying other nations are not. The scriptures tell us that God sets up kings/leaders and that he set the boundaries for nations. So all nations are ordained by God, but take that to mean that God approves of what they do. Satan is still the god of this world, but God where it pleases Him in order to fulfill or aid in fulfilling Bible prophecies.
OK. I'll admit my language was not precise enough. Yes, every nation is in God's plan and therefore ordained. In the sense of the United States, I was using ordained as the chosen race of God (in whom according to the bible other peoples would become a part of as well). The tribe of Manasseh has the birthright and that's what I meant as ordained---- that they would not simply be lost and forgotten by God, but would form a nation again. I did not mean ordained as in approved of what they do, however, and much sin entered into this nation (I hope you checked my link above as I'm sure God does not approve of this memorial!). Chosen means selected by God for a responsibility according to His plan and purpose in spite of the people themselves.

(tim_from_pa;54501)
OK. I'll admit my language was not precise enough. Yes, every nation is in God's plan and therefore ordained. In the sense of the United States, I was using ordained as the chosen race of God (in whom according to the bible other peoples would become a part of as well). The tribe of Manasseh has the birthright and that's what I meant as ordained---- that they would not simply be lost and forgotten by God, but would form a nation again. I did not mean ordained as in approved of what they do, however, and much sin entered into this nation (I hope you checked my link above as I'm sure God does not approve of this memorial!). Chosen means selected by God for a responsibility according to His plan and purpose in spite of the people themselves.
Even that is not correct; the true chosen people of God are Christians. People who are filled with the Spirit of God are His people, and not those who care not about God and doing His will.Romans 9:6-8 (ASV) 6 But it is not as though the word of God hath come to nought. For they are not all Israel, that are of Israel: 7 neither, because they are Abraham's seed, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh that are children of God; but the children of the promise are reckoned for a seed. 1 Peter 2:9 (Darby) 9 But ye [are] a chosen race, a kingly priesthood, a holy nation, a people for a possession, that ye might set forth the excellencies of him who has called you out of darkness to his wonderful light;

The U.S. is the Anti Christ according to the bible and the daily news. Moneychangers, gamblers, soldiers and salesman are stricktly prohibited in the Temple of God which happens to be the universe not some church in Jerusalem. All private banks must be eliminated, all armies dismantled, Casino's and scratch tickets destroyed, wages unionized and prices standardized for this planet to operate as designed. The U.S. must change its ways or the world will not survive.

Jake99,You don't have any idea what you are talking about.

("verzanumi24")
Even that is not correct; the true chosen people of God are Christians. People who are filled with the Spirit of God are His people, and not those who care not about God and doing His will.
No, what you said is not correct. It depends on what you mean by chosen. There is chosen of race, and there is chosen of grace. Christians are the latter, and could also be the former as well.Israelites and Jews that do not believe are the former, and they are still chosen of race.When I was speaking of a chosen nation, I was referencing race.It is possible for one to be chosen of God, blessed by God, inherit the birthright by God and all the other promises to Abraham and still one can end up in hell in the end.