Sola Fide

bbyrd009 said:

this has one too many "they's" in it to be completely clear, but where is anyone telling anyone else what works are required for justification, as if that is even possible, which i doubt?

Click to expand...

***
They define it when they preach faith + works. And of course, the works are those of the law that they wish to incorporate into their religion. Most all religious churches teach a "social, moral gospel" based on the law.

I went to a meeting with a group of men in religion and all it was turned out to be making a list of good works that they we going to do the next week. In simple language it was their own ideas of works that were determined by them and I saw no spirit led discussion of how to present the gospel of grace to others. When the scriptures tell us to give account as to our faith it does not mean an account of good works.

H. Richard said:

***
They define it when they preach faith + works. And of course, the works are those of the law that they wish to incorporate into their religion. Most all religious churches teach a "social, moral gospel" based on the law.

I went to a meeting with a group of men in religion and all it was turned out to be making a list of good works that they we going to do the next week. In simple language it was their own ideas of works that were determined by them and I saw no spirit led discussion of how to present the gospel of grace to others. When the scriptures tell us to give account as to our faith it does not mean an account of good works.

Click to expand...

ah well yes, a counterfeit is not too hard to see there, even if Abe was justified to God by his works also. Doesn't mean that those men would be, by their (likely) codependent works, i agree.

So then those might be characterized as doing the right things for the wrong reasons, maybe?

bbyrd009 said:

Doesn't mean that those men would be, by their (likely) codependent works, i agree.

Click to expand...

aren't these usually characterized by...well, what you are saying is the problem, i guess, guilting others into doing those same works, etc--but the differences from the Abraham/Isaac scenario should be easy enough to point out i would think?

bbyrd009 said:

aren't these usually characterized by...well, what you are saying is the problem, i guess, guilting others into doing those same works, etc--but the differences from the Abraham/Isaac scenario should be easy enough to point out i would think?

Click to expand...

***
Not as easy as you might think. Some see but don't believe. Some read but use other scripture to not believe. Some hear but only what they wish to hear.

It is clearly defined in scripture that Jesus atoned (paid) for all the sins of the world but some refuse to believe, others read it and still refuse to believe it, Some will hear it and then allow others (religions) to make it go away by saying the word ""ALL"" does not mean all.

FHII said:

Come one, come all!
Wikipedia (abbreviated):
Sola fide (Latin: by faith alone), also known as justification by faith alone, is a Christian theological doctrine....
I am a strong supporter of justification by faith alone. I have many verses. Here's two:
Romans 4:5-6 KJV
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. [6] Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: [9] Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Anyone else want to weigh in?

Click to expand...

Hi FHII,

Sola fide was invented 500 years ago. It was not a teaching of the Christian community for the first 1,500 years of Christianity. I guess if you throw out every verse that destroys your theory, you are right.

I think Peter was Satan since Jesus said he was: Matthew 16:23...Prove me and Jesus wrong!!

Mary

FHII said:

I gave you two scripural references that state otherwise. I can give more. So how is it that you say it wasn't a teaching of the Christian community? You should at least address the scripture I gave before making that claim.
And what verses would those be? I gave you verses and you simply say I am throwing out verses without giving any. Totally irrelevant to the conversation.

Click to expand...

Hi FHII,

Here are my two references to debunk (address) your 500 year old theory: James 2:24, James 2:14-20 (Even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror).

Irrelevant?

I gave you a single passage from scripture that supports what I believe; Peter is Satan. Here is another: In Mark 14 Peter denies Jesus 3 times. Who would deny Jesus other than satan?

That is more proof that Peter was Satan therefor I MUST be right since, just like you, I gave TWO passages from scripture to support my belief. If all it takes is two passages to prove I am right I have succeeded.

Mary

FHII said:

There has been pkenty of conversation about this. James was addressing Jews who were believers but wanted to and were taught to stay under the law. You can read that in acts 15 and 21.
Paul preached grace through faith works for both the Jew and the gentile.
The verse, by the way, says that devils believe there is one God... Not that faith needs works. I am sure they approve of the idea though.
Still irrelevant. I am not interested in your belief that Peter was Satan.

Click to expand...

Hi FHduece,

Scripture and Jesus says that Peter was Satan. How can you deny what Jesus said?

A person is NOT considered righteous by faith alone.

All I have to do is have faith? Never go to Church and have faith? Never help anyone in need and have faith? Never help the homeless and have faith? Never help ANYONE? Seriously?

I can sit in my moms basement, eat Cheetos, play video games and KNOW that my faith has saved me....never helping anyone or going to church? Makes sense to me.

Johnn 3:16; Acts 16:31, Acts 2:38; 2 Pet 3:9, Jn 3:5; 1 Pet 3:21; Titus 3:5, jn 3:5; 2 Cor 3:6, Lu 12:8; Rom 10:9, 1 Tim 2:4; Heb 10:26, Col 1:22-23; Mt 24:13m, John 5:28-29; Rom 2:6, 7; James 2:24, Acts 15:11; Eph 2:8, Rom 5:9; Heb 9:22, Rom 5:17; 2 Pet 1:1, Eph 2:16; Col 2:14.

Mary

Marymog said:

A person is NOT considered righteous by faith alone.

Click to expand...

Even though Romans 4 says : 2. "For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”

Also: 5." But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,.."

And: 9...."For we say that faith was accounted to Abraham for righteousness. 10. How then was it accounted? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised."

I imagine you know these verses well. So you must believe Abraham wasn't accounted righteous by faith alone?

FHII said:

Its your burden to tell me how those verses apply. Not mine.

Click to expand...

ha, that's a bet you would lose imo

Whats it say about ,

Mat_6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

See the works are never our own just as the works that Christ did was of teh father.

Joh_10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

See you are supposed to walk in faith, than the works of God will follow, but the works are His works not yours so we cannot boast, and it is this that proves our faith, but far to many do there own works trying to prove their faith by their doings, and that is not faith neither is it Gods work.

Salvation is a gift not earned and never deserved, that is why it is a Gift that we cannot pay for.

Marymog said:

Hi FHduece,

Scripture and Jesus says that Peter was Satan. How can you deny what Jesus said?

A person is NOT considered righteous by faith alone.

All I have to do is have faith? Never go to Church and have faith? Never help anyone in need and have faith? Never help the homeless and have faith? Never help ANYONE? Seriously?

I can sit in my moms basement, eat Cheetos, play video games and KNOW that my faith has saved me....never helping anyone or going to church? Makes sense to me.

Johnn 3:16; Acts 16:31, Acts 2:38; 2 Pet 3:9, Jn 3:5; 1 Pet 3:21; Titus 3:5, jn 3:5; 2 Cor 3:6, Lu 12:8; Rom 10:9, 1 Tim 2:4; Heb 10:26, Col 1:22-23; Mt 24:13m, John 5:28-29; Rom 2:6, 7; James 2:24, Acts 15:11; Eph 2:8, Rom 5:9; Heb 9:22, Rom 5:17; 2 Pet 1:1, Eph 2:16; Col 2:14.

Mary

Click to expand...

***
Jesus never said Peter was Satan. He was speaking to Satan who was, at that time speaking through Peter. And it seems there are many more who voice the ideas of Satan in religion.

FHII said:

I don't think Marymog really believes Peter was Satan. She has a much different agenda. I just wasn't going to play her game.

Click to expand...

***
Thanks. I will not either.

H. Richard said:

***
Jesus never said Peter was Satan. He was speaking to Satan who was, at that time speaking through Peter. And it seems there are many more who voice the ideas of Satan in religion.

Click to expand...

Jesus turned to Peter and said "Get behind me Satan...."

Scripture says it. Jesus says it. It must be true.

I think your missing my point....

Marymog said:

Jesus turned to Peter and said "Get behind me Satan...."

Scripture says it. Jesus says it. It must be true.

I think your missing my point....

Click to expand...

You haven't made on yet.
Even a child at Sunday School understands what Jesus was saying...Peter also understood. It is a silly childish argument and you well know it!

FHII said:

This thread is about sola fide. In no way, shape or form does the discussion involve Jesus calling Peter Satan. Its totally off topic.

I am not going to bother with the Peter/Satan issue nor the hidden agenda behind it. Lord willing.

Click to expand...

THANK YOU!! Excellent...got it now!
And yes indeed, I think I posted somewhere above..." YES, by faith in the finished work of Christ and the power of His priceless Blood! Thank You Lord! ✟