The Lord comes to reveal His Glory among His own

ScottA · Aug 25, 2017

101G said:
Let the word of God correct you.
A. was they believers? yes, 1 Thessalonians 1:7 "So that ye were ensamples to all that believe in Macedonia and Achaia".

This passage does not apply. To "believe" is not the same as the receiving of the Holy Spirit. These are two different things. God has not mixed them, but you have.

101G said:
B. did they have the Holy Ghost?
the very first verse in the opening tells us, 1 Thessalonians 1:1 "Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ". they was "IN" God, who is Spirit. now, was the Holy Ghost in them? yes, 1 Thessalonians 1:6 "And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost". so the word of God, not me CORRECTS you.

You are quoting Paul's greeting. He is not speaking of the Thessalonians, but of himself and those with him, and greeting them in the name of the Father and the Son. He is not saying that the Thessalonians are "in" Christ, he is giving his own qualifications before preaching the word of God to them.

101G said:
the word of God do not agree with you there. 1 Thessalonians 1:10 "And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come". here is your contradiction. see that word "delivered", it have an "ed" on the end to show past tense, meaning it already happen. so the question, "What was "US" we delivered from? answer, "wrath", when is this wrath? answer to come, (future). now, according to you, the Lord Jesus came on Pentecost, and according to you he only came that one time. so the question arise, "why wait for someone who have already came?". and the apostle wrote this after Pentecost.
that's mistake #1,

Again, you are mixing things up. Paul is telling them that by waiting, they too can expect to be saved from the wrath to come. He is validating his message by using himself as an example...and the proof of this, is that Christ had already come to Paul. So, Paul did not need to wait, but they did.

101G said:
now, mistake #2, you said, "in 2 Thessalonians he speaks in future tense of the end when He is revealed to all, including "those who trouble you", in the judgement". no, he told them that in 1 Thessalonians already, scripture, 1 Thessalonians 2:13 "For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe. 14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews: 15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all me". so they suffered, but the question as you said about future revealing, "in 2 Thessalonians he speaks in future tense of the end when He is revealed to all". if he's revealed to all, at the END, as you said, "WHY IS HE COMING FROM HEAVEN TO BE REVEALED WHEN HE IS ALREADY HERE?".

You ask this question because you do not know. But I know and have told you: Jesus has come to those like Paul and many others, whom He has come to already, but He has not come to all, nor will He until the end. So, through the course of time, Jesus has both come already and comes daily, and will also come in the end to those who have not seen Him, that every eye should see.

101G · Aug 25, 2017

GINOLJC, first thanks for the post, I read all of it and you did not answer my question, nor did you given any understanding of the Lord coming the second time. but that's ok.

As my brother the apostle paul said, "brethren, I would not have you to be ignorant".
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words". this meeting in the air is not spiritual.

well I'll take comfort in these word instead of your, ok. but peace in Christ.

keras · Aug 25, 2017

we who are alive and remain at His coming..... totally destroys the rapture to heaven theory.
But the joke is; they actually use this passage as a rapture proof!

ScottA · Aug 26, 2017

101G said:
GINOLJC, first thanks for the post, I read all of it and you did not answer my question, nor did you given any understanding of the Lord coming the second time. but that's ok.

As my brother the apostle paul said, "brethren, I would not have you to be ignorant".
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words". this meeting in the air is not spiritual.

well I'll take comfort in these word instead of your, ok. but peace in Christ.

This passage of course is true, just not in the way you believe it. But rather as Paul also said, not contradicting himself, "together", "But each one in his own order:"

In your way of believing, are you able to reconcile the two passages?

Helen · Aug 27, 2017

Maybe someone mentioned this already...sorry I have not read every word of every post.

So please forgive if this is a repeat. ( and I am sure the thread has moved on beyond this like all threads do!)

Luke 4:17 And there was delivered unto Him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when He had opened the book, He found the place where it was written, 18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, because he hath anointed Me to preach the gospel to the poor; He hath sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
20 And He closed the book, and He gave it again to the minister, and sat down. "

In Isaiah 61:2 "To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, and the day of vengeance of our God...."

I believe 100% that Jesus did not read out that line of the book of Isaiah in His reading that day....because He Himself had come to earth for one reason only...To please the Father on the cross by taking ALL " the vengeance of our God" upon Himself. For us.

....H

keras · Aug 27, 2017

"ByGrace" said:
I believe 100% that Jesus did not read out that line of the book of Isaiah in His reading that day....because He Himself had come to earth for one reason only...To please the Father on the cross by taking ALL " the vengeance of our God" upon Himself. For us.

Jesus stopped where He did, in Isaiah 61:1-2, because the Day of vengeance is still a future event. Revelation 6:12-17, 2 Thess 1:7-8 and over 100 other prophesies describe that forthcoming sudden and shocking worldwide disaster.
Just read the rest of Isaiah 61:3-11, to find out the amazing blessings the Lord promises to His faithful Christian people after that event. Proved by verse 6...you will be priests of the Lord.... paralleled in Revelation 5:9-10 and in Isaiah 66:18b-21.

bbyrd009 · Aug 27, 2017

keras said:
over 100 other prophesies describe that forthcoming sudden and shocking worldwide disaster.

there is nothing new under the sun, and sudden shocking "disasters" come into every one's "world," so these prophecies may be perceived in the context of any believer's walk, even 1000 years ago or whatever.

Accepting that these are meant spiritually rather than literally might be a "disaster" for you even. This understanding might even shake your faith in God. I have seen people leave religion over it or something similar.

101G · Aug 27, 2017

ScottA said:
This passage of course is true, just not in the way you believe it. But rather as Paul also said, not contradicting himself, "together", "But each one in his own order:"

In your way of believing, are you able to reconcile the two passages?

GINOLJC to all, to my brother Scott. first thanks for the response. second, NOT "MY" way or "your" way but the Lord's way. yes This passage of course is true, and needs no reconciling, it's one event. and is backed you with 2 Thessalonians 2:1 "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him". I believe that's plain enough. and as said before the ORDER is Christ, which is the first fruit, and then every man "HIS", meaning Christ, own. the order is clear, as Daniel spoke by the Lord, Daniel 12:2 "And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt". and the Lord himself spoke it the same, John 5:25 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. 26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; 27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation". there is no in between. the order is clear, Christ and then "HIS".

ScottA · Aug 27, 2017

101G said:
GINOLJC to all, to my brother Scott. first thanks for the response. second, NOT "MY" way or "your" way but the Lord's way. yes This passage of course is true, and needs no reconciling, it's one event. and is backed you with 2 Thessalonians 2:1 "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him". I believe that's plain enough. and as said before the ORDER is Christ, which is the first fruit, and then every man "HIS", meaning Christ, own. the order is clear, as Daniel spoke by the Lord, Daniel 12:2 "And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt". and the Lord himself spoke it the same, John 5:25 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. 26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; 27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation". there is no in between. the order is clear, Christ and then "HIS".

You have not reconciled "together" and "each", but have added also that you have not reconciled "The hour is coming, and now is."

Brother, I know that this is new to you, but both Jesus and Paul, and now I have shown you that the one cannot be the other. Nor can they be reconciled unless it comes to each in the world, but together in heaven, and now when He first came and also now throughout all of these last days to each individually at His coming when He sends the Holy Spirit, whom does not come but to each in his own order.

Helen · Aug 27, 2017

keras said:
Jesus stopped where He did, in Isaiah 61:1-2, because the Day of vengeance is still a future event. Revelation 6:12-17, 2 Thess 1:7-8 and over 100 other prophesies describe that forthcoming sudden and shocking worldwide disaster.
Just read the rest of Isaiah 61:3-11, to find out the amazing blessings the Lord promises to His faithful Christian people after that event. Proved by verse 6...you will be priests of the Lord.... paralleled in Revelation 5:9-10 and in Isaiah 66:18b-21.

Hi there.
I think we shall just have to disagree on this one then.

Until God Himself shows me otherwise, I will go to my grave believing the The Father poured out all vengeance upon The Son.
Do I believe in judgement, yes.
I believe in the Day of Judgement ...I believe as the Book says..every mans works will be tried ..Gold, Silver or Precious stones, wood , hay or stubble...the fire will try every mans works...
But, no sweat...I enjoy others peoples point of view.

pia · Aug 27, 2017

"ByGrace" said:
I believe 100% that Jesus did not read out that line of the book of Isaiah in His reading that day....because He Himself had come to earth for one reason only...To please the Father on the cross by taking ALL " the vengeance of our God" upon Himself. For us.

Well people do forget that god Himself had to turn away from Jesus, when on the cross, and the Holy spirit certainly must have also, as He was headed for the realm of the dead.....for us ! 'He was MADE to BE sin for us. He who KNEW no sin."......Just marvelous ! Thanks for the post...

bbyrd009 · Aug 29, 2017

"ByGrace" said:
Hi there.
I think we shall just have to disagree on this one then.

the "sudden and shocking worldwide disaster" is when one realizes that pretty much everything they know is crap. And it happens to pretty much everyone. At that point they are either cast adrift and they find the Wilderness, or they have a mental breakdown, or back away from the cliff and spend the rest of their lives pretending that there was no cognitive dissonance, and you can tell these ones by the way...well, enough for now. We call it a "midlife crisis."

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The Lord comes to reveal His Glory among His own

ScottA

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101G

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keras

Writer of Bible study guides

ScottA

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Helen

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keras

Writer of Bible study guides

bbyrd009

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101G

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ScottA

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Helen

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pia

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bbyrd009

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