PreTrib Question

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Christina

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Kriss, I want to thankyou for pointing 1 Corinthians 15:52 to me. 52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. (KJV)What I just now noticed when I went back to that site that convinced me of the pre-tribulation rapture in the first place is this:"Because Paul, in 1 Cor. 15:52 and 1 Thes 4:16, said believers would be raptured at the sounding of a trump..." notice they just said trump, not the last trump.But later on they point this out:"Pre-wrath proponents say that the Seventh Trumpet blown in Rev 11:15-18 is the same last trump Paul spoke of in 1 Cor 15:52. However, they fail to take into account the fact that John wrote Revelation 40 years after Paul wrote his first epistle to the Corinthians. How could Paul refer to something that was not yet revealed?"I was wandering what you make of this?
I say isn't that so typical of men make it sound so holy first they ignore the word last cause everyone would just stop listening to their twisting of scripture then after their bull they ask you a question that in human terms would be impossible. But we are not talking Human here this is the Word of Our Lord God. Paul was not recording his own thought he was recording the mysteries the truth from the Lord God knew and knows what would and will happen God revealed this to Paul no big mystery here just men trying to confuse Gods word.God reveals future events to all the prophets at some point the fact he revealed this to Paul is in keeping with the character of God who is the same yesterday,today and tomorrow
 

Monk

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100% Yes. There is no scripture saying that Christ will come back before Satan comes back.JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
Why am I getting it wrong?Jesus will rescue the believers as explained in Rev. 7, and Satan will be here on Earth somewhere in the middle of the 7 year covenant. The snatching away should happen somewhere after that.That is the reason those days had to be cut short, according to Jesus in Mat. 24.
 

followerofchrist

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Alright, I'm convinced. There is no Pre-tribulation rapture. I could study the bible my whole life and I don't think I would know half the things it has to teach me.
 

Christina

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As far as I see things from the scriptures there seems to be 7 seals and those that believe that Christ is the Mesiah will be snatched up to heaven to meet Christ in the air somewhere between the 6th seal and the 7th seal, just before the wrath of God is poured on the rest of the earth. Just like it was with Sodom and just like it was with Noah.Am I getting this wrong?
Agree with Jag here there is no scripture that says that in fact the seals are not even in order there is no gathering to Lord until the 7th trump we are told in 2 Thess that the man of Lawlessness that Son of Perdition (these are names for Satan) must come first and he doesnt come until the 5th/6th trump and then comes the 7th and we are changed and gathered to the Lord and not before.
 

Monk

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Alright, I'm convinced. There is no Pre-tribulation rapture. I could study the bible my whole life and I don't think I would know half the things it has to teach me.
God commands us to seek Him ALWAYS. He will teach you all that you need to know if you seek Him with ALL of your heart, He will open your eyes to the truth. Don't ever get discouraged. You must persevere!
 

Jordan

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100% Yes. There is no scripture saying that Christ will come back before Satan comes back.JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
Why am I getting it wrong?Jesus will rescue the believers as explained in Rev. 7, and Satan will be here on Earth somewhere in the middle of the 7 year covenant. The snatching away should happen somewhere after that.That is the reason those days had to be cut short, according to Jesus in Mat. 24.Matthew 24:21 - For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.Matthew 24:22 - And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.Matthew 24:23 - Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.Matthew 24:24 - For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.Matthew 24:25 - Behold, I have told you before.Matthew 24:26 - Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.Matthew 24:27 - For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.Matthew 24:28 - For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.Matthew 24:29 - Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:Matthew 24:30 - And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
 

Christina

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Why am I getting it wrong?Jesus will rescue the believers as explained in Rev. 7, and Satan will be here on Earth somewhere in the middle of the 7 year covenant. The snatching away should happen somewhere after that.That is the reason those days had to be cut short, according to Jesus in Mat. 24.
THERE IS NO SNACTHCING AWAY UNTIL CHRISTS RETURN AT THE END 7th trump. Period. Not yelling here just want you to fix this in your mindNow Jesus will rescue and/or protect the true believer,but he never says he is taking anyone anywhere God does not need to take one away to protect themdid he take Daniel away? Did he fly Noah otta here? God can protect his own without some fake fly away doctrine.Mat,24 Says the time will be shortened for the sake of the Elect this means the delusion that Antichrist will cause is so great that if God didnt shorten the time everyone even the Elect (believers )would be fooled. So he shortens the time of the tribulation itself Another words he shortens the time Satan is here on earth to 5 months (Rev.9:5 an9:10)Please keep asking about what you do not get this is important
 

Monk

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Agree with Jag here there is no scripture that says that in fact the seals are not even in order there is no gathering to Lord until the 7th trump we are told in 2 Thess that the man of Lawlessness that Son of Perdition (these are names for Satan) must come first and he doesnt come until the 5th/6th trump and then comes the 7th and we are changed and gathered to the Lord and not before.
I'm not sure I agree with you. In 1 Thes. 4:15-17 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. It says that we will be caught up and meet Jesus in the CLOUDS, and that happens between the 6th & 7th seal. if you read the end of Rev. 6, Rev. 7 and the beginning of Rev 8, you will see that All of the prophecies seem to match very well. I do have to get some sleep, but I will answer you tomorrow with more detailed information.I want to advise you that I do not want to argue, but rather discuss the topic in a reasonable and peaceful manner, so if sometimes it sounds passionate it’s just that, but I will never be disrespectful.
 

Christina

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No problem I dont mind its how we learn But I want you to read your quote above in 1 Thess. now ask yourself when does this happen.2 Thessalonians 2 1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, What is this Peter ging to tell you about ? the gathering to the Lord 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. What we are not to be confused by?? any words or by any letters that is including 1 thess. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who is the son of perdition ? Satan when does Satan come? 5th/6th trump (Christ not til the 7th)4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. This is the Abomination of desolation in Daniel this happens in the middle of the tribulation everyone is still here 5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these thingsPeter is reminding the Thess not be confused he had told them these things when he was with themYou need to understand that the church of Thessolonia was only 3 weeks old when Peter had to leave them (historical fact)they were made up of Jews and gentiles so they got a little confused when they heard a rumor that Christ had returnedso they thought they would be changed as 1 Cor 15 says so Peter wrote 2 Thess to correct them and reassure them Christ had not returned and that Antichrist the son of perdition (Satan) had to come first And of course the seven seals match they are all happening around the same time some simultaneouslyThey are discribing events leading up to and including the 5th/6th trump it is a mistake to think they all happen first and then the trumps happen seals trumps vials bowls are all discribing the same basic time period and eventsexample the seventh seal is the end of the 5th trump this is Satan getting kicked out of heaven and there is silince for the space of 1/2 hour because Satan is not there accusing anymore. Where is he? Woe unto earth for that ole serpent the devil has come down to earth.But no where in Rev are you told you are going to be flying otta here.
 

followerofchrist

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God commands us to seek Him ALWAYS. He will teach you all that you need to know if you seek Him with ALL of your heart, He will open your eyes to the truth. Don't ever get discouraged. You must persevere!
I'm not saying I feel discouraged, its quite the opposite! I feel just like Daniel when he wrote Psalms 63, you can read verse 1 in my sig. I am just saying that God has given us so much that I could study my whole life, and I plan to, and never feel that I know enough. I consider that a good thing, it will keep me hungry for Gods word and a thirst for knowlegde!
 

Christina

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I'm not saying I feel discouraged, its quite the opposite! I feel just like Daniel when he wrote Psalms 63, you can read verse 1 in my sig. I am just saying that God has given us so much that I could study my whole life, and I plan to, and never feel that I know enough. I consider that a good thing, it will keep me hungry for Gods word and a thirst for knowlegde!
Such wise and truthful words after nearly 20 yeras I learn new things all the time how wonderful he gave us a living word that grows with us and never gets old but teaches as long as we are willing to seek and learn.
 

Jordan

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Neither do I know everything, but I do wish to know everything, but God only gives wisdom to His children. We can't do it. Nobody in this world will have the same amount of wisdom of knowledge.JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
 

Jordan

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Agree with Jag here there is no scripture that says that in fact the seals are not even in order there is no gathering to Lord until the 7th trumpwe are told in 2 Thess that the man of Lawlessness that Son of Perdition(these are names for Satan) must come first and he doesnt come until the 5th/6th trump and then comes the 7th and we are changed and gathered to the Lord and not before.
I'm not sure I agree with you.In 1 Thes. 4:15-17 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.It says that we will be caught up and meet Jesus in the CLOUDS, and that happens between the 6th & 7th seal. if you read the end of Rev. 6, Rev. 7 and the beginning of Rev 8, you will see that All of the prophecies seem to match very well.I do have to get some sleep, but I will answer you tomorrow with more detailed information.I want to advise you that I do not want to argue, but rather discuss the topic in a reasonable and peaceful manner, so if sometimes it sounds passionate it’s just that, but I will never be disrespectful.Concerning the word CLOUDS that you have said.Hebrews 12:1 - Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,Doesn't sound like Yahshua coming with a literal cloud when He comes back.JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
 

watchman

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What Scripture do those that believe in the Pre-tribulation rapture use to claim that they will not go through the 70th week of Daniel?I hope I asked this right.
A good scripture to use for the rapture is 1st cor 15:51-53 and 1st thess 4:15-17 but these scriptures in no way indicate a pretrib rapture.The scriptures pretribbers point to to ''prove'' their point is 1st thess 1:10 which says Jesus has saved us from the wrath to come,and 1st thess 5:9 that says we are not appointed to wrath.The problem with those passages is that you must assume #1 that the wrath is the Tribulation and #2 That he saves us from it through the rapture neither of which is provable by scripture.On that note I must state that the bible is very clear when the rapture take place.Immediately after the resurrection of the just which is at the 2nd coming of Christ which is after the Tribulation.6 points that prove post trib rapture(scripture included)#1 1st thess 4:15-17 and 1st cor 15:20-23 say that the rapture is at the 2nd coming.#2 matt 24:29-31 and mark 13:24-27 say that the 2nd coming is after the tribulation and that there is a gathering of the elect at that time.#3 1st cor 15:51-53 says that the rapture is at the last trump but matt 24:29-31 says that there is a trump sounded after the tribulation the rapture can not be b4 this trump therefore can not be until after the trib is over.#4 luke 17:26-30 says that the same day we are taken out is the same day Jesus returns to destroy the wicked(which he does at the end of the trib not the start) this is confirmed in 2nd thess 1:6-10.#5 john 6:39,40,44,and 54 all say Jesus said that he would raise us up at the last day (not 7yrs b4 ).#6 rev 20 :4-6 says that the 1st resurrection is after the trib we know this because it includes tribulational martyrs as well as others that refuse to worship the beast or take his mark during the trib.There can be no resurrection of dead saints at a pretrib rapture b4 the 1st resurrection.Therefore the pretrib rapture as well as the mid trib is biblicaly impossible.
 

Christina

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agreed Watchman my favorite is 2 Thess. 22 Thessalonians 2 1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, This the subject of this chapter the gathering back to the Lord 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Let no man or letter or anything confuse you about this gathering back to the fatherit will not happen untill after the falling away and that man of sin the son of perdition be revealed This man the son of perdition is Antichrist (Satan)this happens at the 5th/6th trump and occurs before Christ returing at the 7th trump 4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. verse 4 is about the abomination of desolation and occurs in the middle of tribulationand there still is no gathering.So as Watchman says any pre or mid tribulation rapture is impossable Christ only comes to gather his at the end 7th trump
 

Jordan

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While we agreed.
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I prefer not to call it a Rapture at all, because the word was not even used. I rather call it a HARPAZO. I tend to get so technical, as I prefer preaching Truth with words that God uses, not with men's words. (as I don't like to confuse myself)JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
 
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Well then allow me to get technical, Although Rapture isn't in the Bible, the Latin Vulgate, Direct from the Septuagint, the Word Harpazo is Rapturo in the Latin Vulgate. That's where the Word Rapture Comes from.
 

n2thelight

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I Thessalonians 4:13 "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope."The next five verses lay the foundation to what is called the "rapture theory". That is all it is, is a theory; and unproven idea. As we study our Father's Word; set aside all preconceived ideas you have about a rapture, and let's see what Paul is trying to tell the Thessalonians.It is from these verses that the "rapture theory" was born. Let's see just how willing you are to bet your soul on it, when we take a fresh look at what Paul really said. Because that is what you are doing when you rely on it in the last days.After Paul told the Thessalonians to live right in the community, and search their souls for sin in their lives, they were then to repent of any sin. Paul moved next to what happens when death comes to this flesh body. This topic is important to Paul, for it is the stabilizing factor to the Christian life. It removes the fear that comes from the unknown of ones death. Paul gives this information for one reason, and that is, that we not be ignorant as the heathen are. In other words, Paul doesn't want Christians stupid.This concern is over "them which are asleep". The concern is over the loved ones that have died and left them, and their decaying bodies are out there in their grave. Paul is saying for us not to be sorry about those Christians who are dead and gone, for that is the concern of the heathen. The heathen's fear comes from their ignorance of God's word, and His promises. The heathen have no hope, for they believe it's over at the burial.I Thessalonians 4:14 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."If we believe, as a Christian, that Christ set the example for us; so that we will follow as He did, in dying, and rising again, then "to sleep" is to be dead from the flesh body. The Greek is a simple language, for it's structure allows one to be more precise. The subject in the frame of this verse is; "that ye not be ignorant as to where the dead are." If you're a Christian, you know and believe that Jesus Christ died, was buried, and on the third day arose and came out of the tomb. If you do not believe this, Paul classifies you as ignorant, and heathen [non-believer]. It was on the fortieth day that he ascended back to the Father. When Jesus ascended into heaven, all the souls went with him into heaven also, that had passed on, up to that point in time. The souls of some went to wait for that time of judgment, while others to the glory of God. Those that sleep [are dead] are not out there in a hole in the ground, but all Christians must believe that they arose to be with the Father, just like Christ did also. The dead are with God; all of them. "To be absent from the body [flesh body] is to be present with the Lord." Ecclesiastes 12:7.Regardless what chapter nine of Ecclesiastes says concerning the flesh body; when this flesh body is dead, the soul is gone from it, and the flesh is left to rot. It is difficult to see how they made a "rapture theory" out of this, when the subject is, "where are the dead?" So we see that when one dies, his soul goes immediately to be with our Heavenly Father. If you believe this, you are not heathen.I Thessalonians 4:15 "For we say unto you, by the word of our Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent in no wise [precede] them which are asleep."This, Paul states, is not his words, but it is from the Word God gave to him. Where? Ecclesiastes 12:7, that is where it is written. "We which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord," this is our gathering back to Jesus Christ. "Shall not prevent them", would be better translated, "We are not going to precede [go before] them." We can not precede them for a very simple reason; the dead are already there with God. It is the only logical fact that can come from this. If you do not, or will not believe this, then you believe in soul sleep as the heathen do, and the hope and glory Paul is speaking of, for the Christian, and you are ignorant of God's glory. Whether victorious, or sentenced to hell, all the dead are now with the Father, and not in the ground. Paul, in another writing, told us exactly; as far as the return of Jesus Christ, when we would be gathered back to Him. That goes also for when we would see those who are asleep [dead], and that exact moment is at the sounding of the seventh [last] trumpet. It will happen very quickly, in the wink [twinkling] of an eye. I Corinthians 15:50-54 tells us we will not go away to any place, but stay right here on earth. We are going to be changed into our new Spiritual bodies, and put off these flesh bodies. Paul says, "Behold I show you a mystery". In other words, Paul is going to reveal something so we will not be ignorant about it. "We shall not all sleep [die] but we shall all be changed." I Corinthians 15:51 Changed to what? The same thing the dead are, and that is the subject. All those still in the flesh body, at a certain moment [the sounding of the seventh trumpet] will shed this flesh body [corruptible and perishable body] and take on the new "incorruptible" body. Friend, That is the hope and salvation of the Christian.To document this, in I Corinthians 15:50 we are told that "flesh and blood cannot inherit", or face Jesus Christ in His kingdom. Christ's kingdom will cover the entire earth, and that is why the flesh body must perish. The time of this change comes at the seventh trumpet, which is the last trump, and stated in verse 52, "for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed".Those who are even dead spiritually will be raised in an incorruptible body. That is a body that doesn't get sick, or grow old; in other words, it is your spiritual body.Why?Because the Kingdom of God is where ever Christ is; and at the seventh trump Christ will be on earth with the saints, and setting up his 1000 year millennium kingdom. No flesh and blood body can exist in that kingdom. This is your "gathering back to Christ", and that is what the rapture meaning is all about. It is the time when Christ comes back to earth and the saints that are alive are changed and drawn to Him. I Corinthians 15:53, "For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality." "Mortal" means "liable to die" in the Greek. At the last trump the Christians who stand against Satan, and his system, will have their immortality, however, those who fall for Antichrist and his system, will have to wait until after the 1000 years. "Corruptible into incorruption" is refering to the flesh body changing into the body such as the angels have, a spiritual body. Whereas the eternal condition of the soul is only extended to those who have not yielded to the Antichrist, For they only are the victors at the seventh trump. You put on immortality through Christ who set the way.I Corinthians 15:54, "So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory." Going back to I Thessalonians 4:15, we know when this will come to pass. It will be "at the last trump", when the alive in Christ are "changed", not flying away.I Thessalonians 4:16 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with a voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first;"The Lord is going to descend, at the seventh trump [the last trump]. Why will the dead in Christ rise first? Because they are already there, and with Him. All we have to do now is go to the book of Revelation, and find out in detail when this will be. We find out what events will occur just prior to this seventh trump sounding, and then when we see these certain events taking place before our eyes, we will know our Lord will return to earth next. Then the trump will sound, and the gathering will take place, and we will be changed from our flesh bodies to our spiritual bodies. And not one day before. Many people have images of massive numbers of people flying away, with all sorts of accidents taking place; however, the Bible doesn't tell us it will be in that manner. In Revelation 11, it tells us exactly three and a half days prior what will happen, and the whole world will know about it, for it is no hidden mystery. That is when the Antichrist will end his reign by killing God's two witnesses, and send the world into a three and a half day party of celebration. In Revelation 11 the world will know the two witnesses, for the disruption they have caused, and the world will watch as they are killed, and their dead bodies are put on display in a wide street [arena]. Are you still looking for a rapture, well my friend, at the end of the three and half day period it will be a time of great shame for you, For as Revelation 9:4 points out, the truth will not be sealed in your mind, and God is going to turn you over to Antichrist. The "rapture theory", could be the death warrant of your very soul, or a commitment of your soul to great shame. If you believe in the "Rapture theory" you will be on the side of Antichrist, and will fly with anyone, because you just don't understand the Word of God. Remember, Two bodies will be in the streets of Jerusalem for three days, causing a world wide massive party...that is your warning just before Jesus Christ return to this earth. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.I Thessalonians 4:17 "Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."Revelation 11:9; "And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves." They simple do not want these bodies to come alive, or claim life when they in fact are dead. The world is witness to the corps of the two bodies. And they will think of all the damage these two prophets did to their crops and property; and most of all, the insults the witnesses gave this first Christ {Antichrist}, whom they all believed to be Jesus. Antichrist did as their rapture theory promised it would do. They got their wing's all right, straight to Satan's camp.Revelation 11:10; "And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth." The torment the two gave the world was naming the Antichrist, Satan. This was unthinkable, for their traditions taught them otherwise.Revelation 11:11; "And after three and an half [days] the spirit [breath] of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them." Did you catch the time frame here? It's three and a half days following the death of two witnesses that the world will rejoice over their death. When the whole world celebrates, you better be getting ready to meet your maker. Friend, the only flying out of here is by the two witnesses, and it is recorded here. God's elect will be changed here at this time. Revelation 11:12; "And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them [two witnesses], Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them." There is no secret to this rapture, of two, for who are their enemies? Those who were against God's two witnesses. Revelation 11:13; "And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven." This is Satan, and his fallen angels [that locust army of Revelation 9] that were caste out with him. The remnent who gave God the glory, are God's elect, and those who are sealed of God, including the 144,000 of the tribes of Israel. Those are the ones chosen to stand against the Antichrist, and only them. The traditions of men will be preached right up to the seventh trump. What happens then at the seventh trump? Well, that is what First Thessalonians 4 is all about. "The gathering back to Christ at the seventh trumpet". Revelation 11:14-15; "The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly." [verse 14] "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The Kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever." [verse 15] THIS IS THE SEVENTH TRUMP. You, as a Christian now know exactly what is to transpire for three and a half days prior to the sounding of the seventh trump. You will see the murder of the two witnesses, observe the massive celebration, and then be changed to another form before Christ returns to this earth. It's all in God's holy plan, and Paul, John, Peter, Mark, Luke as well as Jesus certainly do not want you ignorant of these facts. There is no FLY AWAY, no dodging of the tribulation of the Antichrist and his system's deceptions, but Christ will come and establish His kingdom on earth, and you will see it in your spiritual body. Got it?
 

Jordan

Active Member
Apr 6, 2007
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QUOTE (Unorthodox Christian;36119)
Well then allow me to get technical, Although Rapture isn't in the Bible, the Latin Vulgate, Direct from the Septuagint, the Word Harpazo is Rapturo in the Latin Vulgate. That's where the Word Rapture Comes from.
Allow me to get straight-fact towards you. The Septuagint are those that are called The Alexandrian Texts I don't trust a bible that uses The Alexandrian Texts that twist Christ and His Word. Go read Post 60 on this link... actually I would rather have you read my whole thread, because I am out there to save souls.[url="http://www.christianityboard.com/index.php?showtopic=4008&st=49]Evil spirits in Christianity!!!!![/url]JagLovest thou are Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.