Jesus is a human being but not the one true God

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OzSpen

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doctrine????? just quoted out a couple of things I've read in the bible.......... I'm not here to quote scripture, enough doing that already....

On a Christian forum, I thought it would be expedient for you to back up your teaching (doctrine) with Scripture. Or do you have to leave it as your own opinion?

Oz
 
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OzSpen

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Oz,
Because misery wants company.
They'd all like us to join them in their boat.
Satan is Always ready to help those that want to help him to convince persons not to believe.

IOW, they need confirmation. What better confirmation than to see Others abandon their faith just like they did.

Have to leave for a couple of days.
When I get back...

GodsGrace,

I suppose that the challenge is to concisely understand their biblical errors and publish those views wherever possible. This is what I found I needed to do in my PhD dissertation when examining the presuppositions of John Dominic Crossan's view of the resurrection, not a bodily resurrection, but an apparition (ghost, vision, hallucination, etc).

He focusses on reading only those who agree with his view or are of the persuasion of the theology of the Jesus Seminar. He doesn't do this without exception as he debated N T Wright on the resurrection and Wright's view of the resurrection is bodily resurrection, not an apparition.

Oz
 
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amadeus

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On a Christian forum, I thought it would be expedient for you to back up your teaching (doctrine) with Scripture. Or do you have to leave it as your own opinion?

Oz
Using scripture is a good thing, or it can be. But, more important than quoting the Book [any translation or language or version] is having the Word of God written in our hearts so that God's principle is in us and a part of us. There are some who cannot accurately quote what is written but they know what God is saying and that is what they say and how they live.

The Word of God is not paper and ink, but the Flesh and Blood of Jesus.

"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth" John 1:14
 
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GodsGrace

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Hi.
I think 'ByGrace' put it as concisely as is possible....Great way to write it.....So you good? Do you recall seeing in the NT about Jesus being the LAST Adam? It's all tied in with that.... :)
Sorry, I was away.

I don't know if I'm good with that.
It seems to me that you're saying that Jesus was a man FIRST
when He was born

and THEN He BECAME GOD.

That's what it sounds like you were saying. If I misunderstood I am sorry.

My belief, and the belief of all Christianity, is that Jesus was God when He was born.
He did not BECOME God.

John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 - And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John 10:30 - I and [my] Father are one.

Isaiah 9:6 - For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

John 20:28 - And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

John 8:58 - Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.



Matthew 1:23

Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call His name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.


Colossians 2:9
For in him [Jesus] dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.

2 Corinthians 4:4
lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

There's a lot more but I wait for your reply.
 
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GodsGrace

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Hi,
Before the universe/earth was even made, we are told in the Bible that He who became Jesus, was in the beginning THE WORD and was with God, and was God ( in john ) He came upon the earth as a word/seed from God through Gabriel ( I think it was ) was accepted by Mary and that Word, became the human boy/man Jesus..........Even that night the angels are quoted as saying it to the shepherds.
We are only shown that God calls Jesus His beloved Son, after he is a grown man, and STILL without sin.
He is also the firstborn from among the dead, so He accomplished a whole lot of stuff, which has taken me 33 years to understand, so far !
Have a nice day, and just so you know right up front, I'm not here to argue, scripture or otherwise, and I don't mind replying, as long as it doesn't get ridiculous..........Blessings Pia sorry I had sent it to who answered you by mistake, sorry for delay
So are you saying that Jesus only became God's Son as an adult???

To which I would reply with my previous post, no. 184.
 

GodsGrace

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Using scripture is a good thing, or it can be. But, more important than quoting the Book [any translation or language or version] is having the Word of God written in our hearts so that God's principle is in us and a part of us. There are some who cannot accurately quote what is written but they know what God is saying and that is what they say and how they live.

The Word of God is not paper and ink, but the Flesh and Blood of Jesus.

"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth" John 1:14
You're right of course. Our Christianity is ALIVE and we are NOT people of the book, as are the muslims.

HOWEVER, when making statements one must back them up with scripture.
We aren't allowed to say whatever we want to say, but should only say and confirm as to what is written in the bible.

If someon seems to be saying that Jesus BECAME God, that person will have to give some supporting scripture.

We are NOT allowed to make up our own version of Christianity.
 

amadeus

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You're right of course. Our Christianity is ALIVE and we are NOT people of the book, as are the muslims.

HOWEVER, when making statements one must back them up with scripture.

Must?

A person can get his feet wet and even drown because the water's deep and he cannot swim. But, on the other hand if a man is told by God to open his mouth, will not God fill it with any necessary words whether the man has read the Bible or not? Man is limited, but God is not. If we are obeying God, will not God provide all that is needed?

"And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together." Gen 22:8
"And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son." Gen 22:13

Abraham went up the mountain with his son walking in faith with God. He did not know ahead of time that the ram would be there to be sacrificed instead of his son. If we trust Him, God will always provide what is needed, even if we don't the scriptures which would support us.


We aren't allowed to say whatever we want to say, but should only say and confirm as to what is written in the bible.

If someon seems to be saying that Jesus BECAME God, that person will have to give some supporting scripture.

We are NOT allowed to make up our own version of Christianity.

No we cannot make it up and expect to be believed, but even if do quote the Bible verbatim many will not believe. Consider these verses:

"Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:29-31

Well one did rise from the dead, and still many people are not persuaded. Having the scriptures on our side is necessary because they contain the Word of God, but if we cannot recall the precise verses that should not stop us from testifying as to what is written in our heart.

If a person is held at gun point and ask what he believed about Jesus, would it be right for him to deny that Jesus is risen because he cannot recall which scriptures confirm it?
 
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GodsGrace

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Must?

A person can get his feet wet and even drown because the water's deep and he cannot swim. But, on the other hand if a man is told by God to open his mouth, will not God fill it with any necessary words whether the man has read the Bible or not? Man is limited, but God is not. If we are obeying God, will not God provide all that is needed?

"And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together." Gen 22:8
"And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son." Gen 22:13

Abraham went up the mountain with his son walking in faith with God. He did not know ahead of time that the ram would be there to be sacrificed instead of his son. If we trust Him, God will always provide what is needed, even if we don't the scriptures which would support us.




No we cannot make it up and expect to be believed, but even if do quote the Bible verbatim many will not believe. Consider these verses:

"Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:29-31

Well one did rise from the dead, and still many people are not persuaded. Having the scriptures on our side is necessary because they contain the Word of God, but if we cannot recall the precise verses that should not stop us from testifying as to what is written in our heart.

If a person is held at gun point and ask what he believed about Jesus, would it be right for him to deny that Jesus is risen because he cannot recall which scriptures confirm it?
Well, to be perfectly frank, I don't care to much for person's personal opinions.
If they have something to say it must be from the word of God.

If they can't quote where an idea comes from, why should I listen?

Calvinists can find scripture that SEEMS to support them, and arminians can find scripture to support them - but when offering an idea, yes, on a Christian forum,
one must use scripture...

Especially, I should say, on a doctrine forum or a bible study or theology forum.

On more relaxed forums it's not absolutely necessary, although it would be nice.
 

amadeus

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Well, to be perfectly frank, I don't care to much for person's personal opinions.
If they have something to say it must be from the word of God.

If they can't quote where an idea comes from, why should I listen?
I do understand this point of view, but if we are growing, should we not eventually always know our Master's voice even if He is speaking to us through a person?

"And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice." John 10:4


Calvinists can find scripture that SEEMS to support them, and arminians can find scripture to support them - but when offering an idea, yes, on a Christian forum,
one must use scripture...

I do see your point. But, while I do often try to use scripture myself, some people I have met won't accept even seemingly clear words of scripture. Solomon's word on this applies to believers as well as to unbelievers:

"Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts." Prov 21:2


Especially, I should say, on a doctrine forum or a bible study or theology forum.

On more relaxed forums it's not absolutely necessary, although it would be nice.

One nice thing about forums such as this one is that people are more willing to talk about their beliefs than most people I have met at most of the supposedly Christian churches I have visited. Years ago, it was not uncommon among Catholics for them to refer questioners to their priest for answers. That is now not uncommon among Protestants as well.
 

GodsGrace

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I do understand this point of view, but if we are growing, should we not eventually always know our Master's voice even if He is speaking to us through a person?

"And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice." John 10:4




I do see your point. But, while I do often try to use scripture myself, some people I have met won't accept even seemingly clear words of scripture. Solomon's word on this applies to believers as well as to unbelievers:

"Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts." Prov 21:2




One nice thing about forums such as this one is that people are more willing to talk about their beliefs than most people I have met at most of the supposedly Christian churches I have visited. Years ago, it was not uncommon among Catholics for them to refer questioners to their priest for answers. That is now not uncommon among Protestants as well.
Not everyone reading may know the Bible so well as to recognize when the words being spoken ate biblical.

Also, I've been living outside the US a long time and was saddened to learn that maybe even Protestants are not learning the word.

Why else send someone to the pastor??
 

amadeus

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Not everyone reading may know the Bible so well as to recognize when the words being spoken ate biblical.

Also, I've been living outside the US a long time and was saddened to learn that maybe even Protestants are not learning the word.

Why else send someone to the pastor??
I agree that this is not as it should be. Some people get to the point where they simply will not attend church services anywhere. They might really want to, but they cannot a place where people including the ministers are really striving to put God first.

Our purpose in serving God should not be to please ourselves. It should not be to gain eternal Life. It should be because we love God and we wish please Him no matter what the cost for us is personally. If that is not our purpose then perhaps we should ask God to help us work on our purpose.
 

GodsGrace

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I agree that this is not as it should be. Some people get to the point where they simply will not attend church services anywhere. They might really want to, but they cannot a place where people including the ministers are really striving to put God first.

Our purpose in serving God should not be to please ourselves. It should not be to gain eternal Life. It should be because we love God and we wish please Him no matter what the cost for us is personally. If that is not our purpose then perhaps we should ask God to help us work on our purpose.
I agree.
Maybe we're becoming more and more egotistical and have no need of God.
;
 

amadeus

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I agree.
Maybe we're becoming more and more egotistical and have no need of God.
;
Likely too many people really believe that they have no need of Him and some of them carry to the point of denying His existence. They would also disagree with me on this.
 

OzSpen

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Using scripture is a good thing, or it can be. But, more important than quoting the Book [any translation or language or version] is having the Word of God written in our hearts so that God's principle is in us and a part of us. There are some who cannot accurately quote what is written but they know what God is saying and that is what they say and how they live.

The Word of God is not paper and ink, but the Flesh and Blood of Jesus.

"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth" John 1:14

amadeus,

We would not know of the need to have the Word of God written in our hearts if we didn't have that doctrine in Scripture - on paper with ink.

If we are demonstrating Christian teaching, it should be a foundation that it MUST be based on Scripture. Yes, MUST. How can it be Christian teaching if it is not from the Word of God written?

Must?

A person can get his feet wet and even drown because the water's deep and he cannot swim. But, on the other hand if a man is told by God to open his mouth, will not God fill it with any necessary words whether the man has read the Bible or not? Man is limited, but God is not. If we are obeying God, will not God provide all that is needed?

"And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together." Gen 22:8
"And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son." Gen 22:13

Abraham went up the mountain with his son walking in faith with God. He did not know ahead of time that the ram would be there to be sacrificed instead of his son. If we trust Him, God will always provide what is needed, even if we don't the scriptures which would support us.




No we cannot make it up and expect to be believed, but even if do quote the Bible verbatim many will not believe. Consider these verses:

"Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:29-31

Well one did rise from the dead, and still many people are not persuaded. Having the scriptures on our side is necessary because they contain the Word of God, but if we cannot recall the precise verses that should not stop us from testifying as to what is written in our heart.

If a person is held at gun point and ask what he believed about Jesus, would it be right for him to deny that Jesus is risen because he cannot recall which scriptures confirm it?

Your claim is that 'having the scriptures on our side is necessary because they contain the Word of God'. No, the Scriptures do not 'contain' the word of God but they ARE the word of God.

When we speak of the inspiration of the Bible, (2 Tim 3:16 KJV) we need to understand that there are a number of uses of 'inspiration' in the English language. My 13-year-old grand-daughter is an inspiration to me when she does figure skating. The word inspiration (of ALL Scripture) has its origin in the Latin Vulgate where the verb 'inspire' was used in 2 Tim 3:16 and 2 Pet 1:21.

The word used for 'inspiration' in 2 Tim 3:16 is theopneustos, which is derived from theos (God) and pnew, 'I breathe'. This is the only time the word theopneustos appears in the Bible. It has the meaning that ALL SCRIPTURE is exhaled by God, i.e. Scripture is the product of the breath of God. It's important to understand that Scripture in the original documents was not breathed into by God but that Scripture is breathed out by God. It eminates from Him.

Therefore 2 Tim 3:16 teaches that 'inspiration' of Scripture refers to 'God's superintendence of the human authors of Scripture so that using their own individual personalities, they composed and recorded without error His revelation to [human beings] in the words of the original autographs" [Charles Ryrie].

Why without error? What is the nature of God?
  • He is perfect: 'As for God, his way is perfect: The LORD's word is flawless; he shields all who take refuge in him' (Ps 18:30 NIV).
  • God does not lie or commit furphies, i.e. rumours, speculations: 'He is the Rock, his works are perfect, and all his ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he (Deut 32:4 NIV) (with help from J. Hampton Keathley III).
images



Oz
 
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OzSpen

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Not everyone reading may know the Bible so well as to recognize when the words being spoken ate biblical.

Also, I've been living outside the US a long time and was saddened to learn that maybe even Protestants are not learning the word.

Why else send someone to the pastor??

GodsGrace,

The church I attend doesn't even have a Bible reading in the service. Yes, the Bible is quoted in Power Points on the screen during sermons - which are almost entirely topical.

To me, this is a downgrade of the importance of Scripture. I'm about to take this up with the elders of the church. They are far too slack on Scripture and its content.

Oz
 
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GodsGrace

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GodsGrace,

The church I attend doesn't even have a Bible reading in the service. Yes, the Bible is quoted in Power Points on the screen during sermons - which are almost entirely topical.

To me, this is a downgrade of the importance of Scripture. I'm about to take this up with the elders of the church. They are far too slack on Scripture and its content.

Oz
The Bible is a miraculous book.
There's nothing else like it.
It has the power to bring to salvation if only by repeating the words of Jesus.
The service should be centered around the word.
Think of how the early Christian's celebrated the word and had communion at their gathering.
It's what worked ,,, why should it be any different today?
We should attempt to follow that method.
Man is the same.
 

amadeus

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amadeus,

We would not know of the need to have the Word of God written in our hearts if we didn't have that doctrine in Scripture - on paper with ink.
God works where He works, not where we decide He is able to work. During the lifetimes of the 12 original apostles [Judas replaced in Acts 1] and the belated apostle Paul, there was no written NT available for believers. Did this mean that God was not already writing His Word on people's hearts? The written Bible is a useful tool but unopened and unread it will be like a hammer never removed from the tool box. It will never secure anything together by striking a nail.

If we are demonstrating Christian teaching, it should be a foundation that it MUST be based on Scripture. Yes, MUST. How can it be Christian teaching if it is not from the Word of God written?

So then strike down the teachings of the disciples of Christ who worked after the day of Pentecost in Acts 2 and prior to the availability of a written text. When the text became available it was a good thing, but without the Holy Spirit quickening the words in the hearts of men, it was dead... even as Jesus was dead hanging on the cross until he resurrected by the power of God.


Your claim is that 'having the scriptures on our side is necessary because they contain the Word of God'. No, the Scriptures do not 'contain' the word of God but they ARE the word of God.

Are they indeed? Or are they simply the dead carcass of Jesus awaiting the empowering of the Holy Spirit in someone who has consumed them?

"[God] Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." II Cor 3:6

When I was growing up in a small town in central California, my mother always had a Bible laying open on the table in her living room. No one ever read that Bible in all of the years I lived there. I was the only one who attended a church anywhere during those years even though everyone in the house carried the label of Christian. How much Life did any of us receive from that always open, never read, Bible? None!


When we speak of the inspiration of the Bible, (2 Tim 3:16 KJV) we need to understand that there are a number of uses of 'inspiration' in the English language. My 13-year-old grand-daughter is an inspiration to me when she does figure skating. The word inspiration (of ALL Scripture) has its origin in the Latin Vulgate where the verb 'inspire' was used in 2 Tim 3:16 and 2 Pet 1:21.

The word used for 'inspiration' in 2 Tim 3:16 is theopneustos, which is derived from theos (God) and pnew, 'I breathe'. This is the only time the word theopneustos appears in the Bible. It has the meaning that ALL SCRIPTURE is exhaled by God, i.e. Scripture is the product of the breath of God. It's important to understand that Scripture in the original documents was not breathed into by God but that Scripture is breathed out by God. It eminates from Him.

Therefore 2 Tim 3:16 teaches that 'inspiration' of Scripture refers to 'God's superintendence of the human authors of Scripture so that using their own individual personalities, they composed and recorded without error His revelation to [human beings] in the words of the original autographs" [Charles Ryrie].

I agree that the writings were inspired by God. But, as I already said, remaining in an unopened, unread, Bible they remain dead like Jesus on the cross after he said, "It is finished" and before he was resurrected. The resurrection occurred through what power?

"But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth." Acts 1:8

And the promised Holy Ghost was first poured out in Acts chapter 2 with the power to resurrect in us the dead words which we had consumed from the carcass of Jesus, which we call the Bible. This is the beginning of the rebirth of which Jesus spoke here:

"Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." John 3:3

We had all been dead, effectively born dead from our mother's wombs until we met the Master and received the quickening Spirit.


Why without error? What is the nature of God?
  • He is perfect: 'As for God, his way is perfect: The LORD's word is flawless; he shields all who take refuge in him' (Ps 18:30 NIV).
  • God does not lie or commit furphies, i.e. rumours, speculations: 'He is the Rock, his works are perfect, and all his ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he (Deut 32:4 NIV) (with help from J. Hampton Keathley III).
Yes, God is perfect and Jesus told us what?

"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." Matt 5:48

Impossible? Did Jesus come for nothing?

"And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved?
And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible." Mark 10:26-27

Yes, for God all things are possible and who is it that is in us working to perfect us?

"To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: " Col 1:27

So then should we not now begin to understand that which a mystery?
 

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Sorry, I was away.

I don't know if I'm good with that.
It seems to me that you're saying that Jesus was a man FIRST
when He was born

and THEN He BECAME GOD.

That's what it sounds like you were saying. If I misunderstood I am sorry.

My belief, and the belief of all Christianity, is that Jesus was God when He was born.
He did not BECOME God.

John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 - And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John 10:30 - I and [my] Father are one.

Isaiah 9:6 - For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

John 20:28 - And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

John 8:58 - Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.



Matthew 1:23

Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call His name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.


Colossians 2:9
For in him [Jesus] dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.

2 Corinthians 4:4
lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

There's a lot more but I wait for your reply.
No, I pointed out that the first time we hear Him referred to by God as His Son, was when He was Baptized. He had to be an ADULT without sin, in order to become The Son of God. The way God sees it, babies and young children have no sin, as they do not yet comprehend what it is...Jesus was most certainly born of God, through Gods seed, His Word, which became flesh, as is stated....He was not however deemed to be The Son until showing Himself able to live without sin, which He had obviously done up to the time He was Baptized, when He then received the Holy spirit of God to dwell within Him, the first human being ever to do that, and thereby the last Adam...Even Adam and Eve did not have that, and thank God for that, as there would have been no remedy for mankind, if it had been so...
I hope I was able to explain myself a little better here ? Sorry English is not my first language, and even though I have been here a long time, I still find that I go amiss here and there and can't quite express what I mean..
 

OzSpen

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No, I pointed out that the first time we hear Him referred to by God as His Son, was when He was Baptized. He had to be an ADULT without sin, in order to become The Son of God. The way God sees it, babies and young children have no sin, as they do not yet comprehend what it is...Jesus was most certainly born of God, through Gods seed, His Word, which became flesh, as is stated....He was not however deemed to be The Son until showing Himself able to live without sin, which He had obviously done up to the time He was Baptized, when He then received the Holy spirit of God to dwell within Him, the first human being ever to do that, and thereby the last Adam...Even Adam and Eve did not have that, and thank God for that, as there would have been no remedy for mankind, if it had been so...
I hope I was able to explain myself a little better here ? Sorry English is not my first language, and even though I have been here a long time, I still find that I go amiss here and there and can't quite express what I mean..

pia,

This is your view: 'The way God sees it, babies and young children have no sin, as they do not yet comprehend what it is'.

Let's check out what the Bible teaches. It states:
  • For I know my transgressions,
    and my sin is always before me.
    4 Against you, you only, have I sinned
    and done what is evil in your sight;
    so you are right in your verdict
    and justified when you judge.
    5 Surely I was sinful at birth,
    sinful from the time my mother conceived me. (Psalm 51:3-5 NIV, emphasis added)
  • 'Even from birth the wicked go astray;
    from the womb they are wayward, spreading lies' (Ps 58:3 NIV, emphasis added).
Ps 51 confirms that David was sinful from birth, from the time he was conceived. We are no different, we are born in sin. Original sin is a biblical teaching.

Babies and children don't need to comprehend their sin. The Bible is clear that they ARE sinners from conception. Seems like your doctrine of babies and young children have no sin comes from your or somebody else's imagination. It's not from the Bible.

The Aussie bloke from Brissy,
Oz
 
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tabletalk

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pia,

This is your view: 'The way God sees it, babies and young children have no sin, as they do not yet comprehend what it is'.

Let's check out what the Bible teaches. It states:
  • For I know my transgressions,
    and my sin is always before me.
    4 Against you, you only, have I sinned
    and done what is evil in your sight;
    so you are right in your verdict
    and justified when you judge.
    5 Surely I was sinful at birth,
    sinful from the time my mother conceived me. (Psalm 51:3-5 NIV, emphasis added)
  • 'Even from birth the wicked go astray;
    from the womb they are wayward, spreading lies' (Ps 58:3 NIV, emphasis added).
Ps 51 confirms that David was sinful from birth, from the time he was conceived. We are no different, we are born in sin. Original sin is a biblical teaching.

Babies and children don't need to comprehend their sin. The Bible is clear that they ARE sinners from conception. Seems like your doctrine of babies and young children have no sin comes from your or somebody else's imagination. It's not from the Bible.

The Aussie bloke from Brissy,
Oz


"Seems like your doctrine of babies and young children have no sin comes from your or somebody else's imagination."

It may come from her personal face to face encounters with a man she calls Jesus.

She also said: "He was not however deemed to be The Son until showing Himself able to live without sin,..."

That statement seems un-Biblical also.