The Shroud of Turin

Well I cant prove it of course but I think it is for Real it would have been easy to prove it a fake if it wasnt so mysterious, now nay sayers wont believe it no matter what but I can only speak for myself.

I am not so sureJhn 19:40 Then took they the body of Jesus, and wound it in linen clothes with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to bury. Jhn 20:5 And he stooping down, [and looking in], saw the linen clothes lying; yet went he not in. Jhn 20:6 Then cometh Simon Peter following him, and went into the sepulchre, and seeth the linen clothes lie, The NIV uses the words strips of cloth, but what ever it was it was plural and the shroud is one piece if I remember right

The shroud of Turin is one of the things that brought me to faith. There's an excellent article at wikipedia that neatly summarizes everything I've ever read on the subject.Here's the clincher:"found that rather than being like a photographic negative, the image unexpectedly has the property of decoding into a 3-D image of the man when the darker parts of the image are interpreted to be those features of the man that were closest to the shroud and the lighter areas of the image those features that were farthest. This is not a property that occurs in photography, and researchers could not replicate the effect when they attempted to transfer similar images using techniques of block print, engravings, a hot statue, and bas-relief."Ain't no way this was a hoax perpetuated by Leonardo da Vinci.Here's John quoting Jesus on the first century equivalent of the same subject:"Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen Me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed."I guess I don't make the first cut, but I suppose I'm better late then never, eh?

In his book, the Physics of Christianity, Frank Tipler devotes some space to this topic. He goes through the original studies why found the shroud to be bogus, but then gives his reasons for finding fault with those studies based on science. He then goes on to show how they could be real and says that it deserves more study.It is a fascinating book for the scientifically minded. It is very technical however. Not light reading to say the least. He also deals with miracles, walking on water, and the virgin birth.I lent my copy so I can't be more precise at the moment.Blessings,Dunamite

So, let me see if I understand this correctly...The catholic church claims to have the cloths that Jesus was wrapped in after death?...Try laying perfectly still in a blanket for a couple days and tell me if you see a perfect image of yourself...after thousands of years as wellI don't mean to be a doubting Thomas, but people give STUFF too much creditits more important to me that Jesus resurrected and left that tomb and everything in it.

Catholis preserved it and hold it sacred, but it belongs to all of us. As an aside and in keeping with the spirit of some here, since it comes from the Church it must be evil and wrong.

FIRST let me say there are many Roman catholics who trust In Jesus merits alone for their salvation.And are one with us in the true faith.But while there are many Roman catholics that hold to the true faith does not change the track record OF what has been so common in the roman catholic church . And that so many claimed relics at one time every church in germany claimed to have some of the very same relics of Christ or the virgin Mary.But we maintain our faith is not in claimed relics ! but in the very word of God!as it is written psalm 119.105 they word is a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path.

(Leviathan;31947)
I have satellite and was watching TBN the other day. A special on the shroud of Turin came on and i found it extremely interesting. For all the people who know about this shroud i would like you opinions. For those who dont the shroud had been kept in a catholic church for many years. Quite recently the churches alllowed researchers to investigate it. They believe this is the shroud was the cloth that jesus was wrapped in after his crusifiction. They have also used this to try and prove his resurrection. There is an image on the front and back of the cloth that looks exactly like jesus, and is detailed with all the beating he went through. This is thought to be a blood stain. However the image is perfect it is perfect. Scientist think that this is impossible and believe he would have had to have been floating in between the cloth in order for an inage this perfect to be produced. This fact is thought to be evidence of his resurrection.Of course thats a quick review if you want more just google it.:cross:
Please don't accuse me of playing the Devils Advocate but permit me to ask a couple of questions. Did the image show there was no sign of a broken leg bone? and evidence of a spear wound? These two pieces of evidence would lead me to believe it COULD possibly be Jesus shroud. As for the exact image of Jesus, I was unaware that there was any authentic paintings of him to compare the image to. I am aware that there were thousands of men murdered by Crucifixion and it would be quite possible that the shroud in question could be that of some other poor soul Crucified during the same time period.

This may be a little off the subject, but it reminds me of something my pastor shared with our church that was so interesting! He told us that when a Jewish guest in a home finished his meal, if he folded his napkin, handerchief, etc. a certain way, that meant he enjoyed the meal and that he would return to the house anytime for a meal. The head piece that was found when Jesus was resurrected was folded the same way as if to say," I"ll be back." I'm not sure where he got the info. from, but I can find out. Isn't that hair-raising? We can rest assured that either way, whether this is the shroud or not, He will return for His bride.

His Grace - it comes from "evil" tradition. It is used to explain the mention of all the burial clothes in the Gospels. That there was something about the placement/condition which was visibly a witness to what had ocurred and just seeing the clothes in that state was moving for the witnesses. IOW Jesus was alive! A resurrection of the body as opposed to theft, or the body just disappearing/dissolving. The neatly folded, placed in a particular manner rather than in a pile or thrown in a corner indicating this. Can we not all see how "evil" such a tradition is?My faith is not in or from relics. The stories the relics represent do strengthen the faith of many. People by nature like connections with our past, not just religious ones either. Such things are treasured and used to help us remember things, events, people. Many keep photos or belongings of family members that have gone on. Like anything the habit can be abused. Our Priest told a joke coming back from Italy. Seems several Churches there have the head of John the Baptist. When he asked the second Church guide how that was possible as the last Church had John's head, the reply was something like "yes, but ours is from when he was younger!"Just ask yourself if you knew without a doubt that you had a piece of the Cross, would it be meaningful to you at all or just garbage? Would you not still cherish such a thing, even if you were not 100% certain it really was the Cross. We all cherish Crosses (well, ok most of us) to some degree, and most of these have not even a claim to be the "real" or part of the real one. How much more so would we feel about something that has a claim?

I'm not sure what you mean about the "evil" tradition. Are you saying that this came from what someone wrote to be true like the writings of Josephus? I'm not really grasping what you're saying. You have to detail things for me sometimes. I'm a blonde. What can I say!LOL! Anyway, I certainly don't need anything to cling to to believe in the Lord. Believing is seeing. And what a greater reward must we have for believing in Him even though our eyes have never seen! The Holy Spirit impressed that upon my heart when I was studying my Bible one morning. My quiet times with the Lord are so precious. But I do find things like the shroud fascinating!

Am sorry, was being facetious. It appears anything we Catholics believe that is not strictly from scripture is often considered evil on this site. Not that others do not believe things that are not strictly from scripture, they clearly do. It is just that either Catholics do a lot more of it or just being a Catholic makes those things evil when we do it. And yes it is silly, but just thought I would beat them to the punch. Blocking with my face so to speak.The teaching about the folding of the burial clothes (being meaningful) comes from Church tradition.

Okay. I got you. I'm not going to attack you for being Catholic. I live right down here in the middle of tons of them. I am related to some. My own daughter is dating one. This is Cajun Land. It is nice to know that you study and know the Word, though. That's my beef. Don't let someone else tell you what the Bible says. Are you in the relationship with Jesus or is someone else? It's like saying you're married, but letting someone else have the relationship with your spouse because you don't want to spend time with them. You just let the other person tell you about them. There are plenty of Catholics that are not like that. I have some precious friends that love the Lord and walk daily with Him. They have been trained in tradition, just as Baptists have traditions too.

The Shroud is a single piece of linen cloth about 14 feet long by 3½ feet wide. The twill is a 3 over 1 herringbone weave. It is bloodstained and shows faint front and back images of a man who, by the visible wounds appears to have been crucified. He seems to be resting in in burial repose. The bloodstainsThe bloodstains on the Shroud are composed of hemoglobin and give a positive test for serum albumin. Numerous tests confirm that the blood is real human blood. The imagesThe Shroud's images are superficial and fully contained within a thin layer of starch fractions and saccharides that coats the outermost fibers of the Shroud. The coloration is a caramel-like product or the product of an amino/carbonyl reaction. Where there is no image, the carbohydrate coating is clear. There is also a very faint image of the face on the reverse side of the Shroud which lines up with the image on the front of the cloth. There is no image content between the two superficial image layers indicating that nothing soaked through to form the image on the other side. Until recently, it was widely believed that the images on the Shroud of Turin were produced by something which resulted in oxidation, dehydration and conjugation of the structure of the fibers of the linen itself. This has been shown to be incorrect. The images are now understood to reside within a coating a coating of raw starch and various saccharides. The images as they appear on the Shroud are said to be negative because when photographed the resulting negative is a positive image. The Turin Shroud was examined with visible and ultraviolet spectrometry, infrared spectrometry, x-ray fluorescence spectrometry, thermography, pyrolysis-mass-spectrometry, laser*microprobe Raman analyses, and microchemical testing. No evidence for pigments (paint, dye or stains) or artist's media was found anywhere on the Shroud. Nor is any photographic emulsion found on the Shroud.examine the shroud yourself interactivehttp://www.shroud.com/