The churches are in dire need of understanding this!

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Zachary

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Now, as we are entering into the end times, the time is short indeed for believers
to become true believers … by starting to obey Jesus’ commandments!

Please also see my first thread, “Here’s the most critical question for you”

The Holy Spirit, God’s angels, and Satan’s angels (demons) can all speak to us (spiritually),
i.e. they can place thoughts into our minds (but demons cannot read our thoughts).
The Holy Spirit will dwell INSIDE the true (obedient) believer …
but this thread is not really about this point, so I will only list some references:
John 14:15-24, John 15:1-10, Acts 5:32, 2 Cor 13:5, 1 John 3:24, 1 John 4:12-16.
Now, on to the purpose of the thread: Obedience results in the believer remaining “in Christ”.

John 14 (NLT, 2007)
15 If you love me, obey my commandments.
16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate, who will never leave you.
17 He is the Holy Spirit who leads into all truth ... you know him,
because he lives with you now and later will be in you.
20 … you will know that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.
21 Those who accept my commandments and obey them are the ones who love me.
And because they love me, my Father will love them.
And I will love them and reveal myself to each of them.
23 All who love me will do what I say. My Father will love them,
and we will come and make our home with each of them.
24 Anyone who doesn’t love me will not obey me.

Jesus says believers who love Him and obey His commandments – are “in me” (v.20).
This is what being “in Christ” is all about.

1 John 2:3-5 (NLT, 2007)
3 And we can be sure that we know him, if we obey his commandments.
4 If someone claims, “I know God,” but doesn’t obey God’s commandments,
that person is a liar and is not living in the truth.
5 But those who obey God’s word truly show how completely they love him.
That is how we know we are living in him.

John says believers who know and love Jesus and obey His commandments – are “in him” (v.5).
This is what being “in Christ” is all about.

I have summarized Jesus’ warnings in John 15 …
John 15 (NLT, 2007)
1 I (Jesus) am the true grapevine, and my Father is the gardener.
2 He (Father God) cuts off every branch of mine that doesn’t produce fruit …
4 Remain in me, and I will remain in you. For a branch cannot produce fruit if it
is severed from the vine, and you cannot be fruitful unless you remain in me.
5 Yes, I am the vine; you are the branches.
Those who remain in me, and I in them, will produce much fruit.
6 Anyone who does not remain in me is thrown away like a useless branch and withers.
Such branches are gathered into a pile to be burned.
8 When you produce much fruit, you are my true disciples.
9 Remain in my love.
10 When you obey my commandments, you remain in my love,
just as I obey my Father’s commandments and remain in his love.

Please note that “every branch of mine” (v.2), and “you” (v.5), refer to believers in Jesus.
Jesus says those who obey His commandments “remain in my love” (v.10).
This is what being “in Christ” is all about.
And He says those who “do not remain in me” are thrown away and burned (v.6).
So, remaining in Jesus (through loving and obeying Him) is mandatory for final salvation!
“To remain in Christ means to love him, to obey him, to pray to him, to worship him.
In other words, to remain in Christ means to be joined to him spiritually, just as a branch
is joined to a vine. If we remain joined to Christ in this way, we will be like living branches.
And just as the sap of the vine flows into the branches and gives them life, so will Christ’s
Spirit flow into us and give us spiritual life. In order to bear fruit, we must remain in Christ.
If we do not remain in Christ, we shall not bear fruit. Not only that, we shall wither and die (v.6).
… There is only one thing that can separate us from Christ: sin. Sin is like a disease that
eats at the base of the branch. We will surely lose our union with Christ, if any known sin
remains in our lives for which we have not repented. … We can say that in our Christian
lives two main things are necessary: first, Christ through the Holy Spirit, must remain in us;
and second, Christ’s words, that is the words of the Bible, must remain in our hearts. …
In the Christian life, we always find two things appearing together: promises and conditions.
If we fulfill the condition, God will fulfill His promise. God has never given a promise withou
also stating a condition along with the promise … To remain in Christ’s love (v.9,10) is the
same as to remain in Christ. … To remain in Christ’s love, we must love him. To love him,
we must obey him (see John 14:15). As long as we continue to obey Christ,
we shall remain in his love, and he and the Father will abide in us (see John 14:21).”

… Dr. Thomas Hale, medical missionary (The Applied New Testament Commentary,1996)

All through the Epistles, people in the churches are condemned …
if they are involved in habitual sin (note: they have not remained “in Christ”).
“There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,
who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ has made me free from
the law of sin and death.” (Romans 8:1-2, NKJV)

Those who have remained “in Christ” are free from the law of sin and death …
because they are continually having their sins washed away through repentance!
“But remember, even though we believers have escaped condemnation, sin still remains
in our lives. Therefore, we are still guilty of sin and deserving of punishment. But if we repent
of our sins, God will not count our sins against us; He will not judge us guilty (see 1 John 1:9).”

… Dr. Thomas Hale (The Applied New Testament Commentary,1996)

(the uncondemned) no longer follow our sinful nature, but instead follow the Spirit.
… So letting your sinful nature control your mind leads to (eternal) death. But,
letting the Spirit control your mind leads to life and peace.” (Romans 8:4-6, NLT)

“We cannot live according to the sinful nature and according to the Spirit at the same time;
we must live according to either one or the other (see Galatians 5, etc.).”

… Dr. Thomas Hale (The Applied New Testament Commentary,1996)

“For if you live by its (the flesh’s) dictates (desires), you will die (eternally). But if through
the power of the Spirit you put to death the deeds of your sinful nature, you will live (eternally).
For all who are led by the Spirit of God are children of God.” (Romans 8:13-14, NLT)
 
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breathofdesire

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Now, as we are entering into the end times, the time is short indeed for believers
to become true believers … by starting to obey Jesus’ commandments!

Please also see my first thread, “Here’s the most critical question for you”

The Holy Spirit, God’s angels, and Satan’s angels (demons) can all speak to us (spiritually),
i.e. they can place thoughts into our minds (but demons cannot read our thoughts).
The Holy Spirit will dwell INSIDE the true (obedient) believer …
but this thread is not really about this point, so I will only list some references:
John 14:15-24, John 15:1-10, Acts 5:32, 2 Cor 13:5, 1 John 3:24, 1 John 4:12-16.
Now, on to the purpose of the thread: Obedience results in the believer remaining “in Christ”.

John 14 (NLT, 2007)
15 If you love me, obey my commandments.
16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate, who will never leave you.
17 He is the Holy Spirit who leads into all truth ... you know him,
because he lives with you now and later will be in you.
20 … you will know that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.
21 Those who accept my commandments and obey them are the ones who love me.
And because they love me, my Father will love them.
And I will love them and reveal myself to each of them.
23 All who love me will do what I say. My Father will love them,
and we will come and make our home with each of them.
24 Anyone who doesn’t love me will not obey me.

Jesus says believers who love Him and obey His commandments – are “in me” (v.20).
This is what being “in Christ” is all about.

1 John 2:3-5 (NLT, 2007)
3 And we can be sure that we know him, if we obey his commandments.
4 If someone claims, “I know God,” but doesn’t obey God’s commandments,
that person is a liar and is not living in the truth.
5 But those who obey God’s word truly show how completely they love him.
That is how we know we are living in him.

John says believers who know and love Jesus and obey His commandments – are “in him” (v.5).
This is what being “in Christ” is all about.

I have summarized Jesus’ warnings in John 15 …
John 15 (NLT, 2007)
1 I (Jesus) am the true grapevine, and my Father is the gardener.
2 He (Father God) cuts off every branch of mine that doesn’t produce fruit …
4 Remain in me, and I will remain in you. For a branch cannot produce fruit if it
is severed from the vine, and you cannot be fruitful unless you remain in me.
5 Yes, I am the vine; you are the branches.
Those who remain in me, and I in them, will produce much fruit.
6 Anyone who does not remain in me is thrown away like a useless branch and withers.
Such branches are gathered into a pile to be burned.
8 When you produce much fruit, you are my true disciples.
9 Remain in my love.
10 When you obey my commandments, you remain in my love,
just as I obey my Father’s commandments and remain in his love.

Please note that “every branch of mine” (v.2), and “you” (v.5), refer to believers in Jesus.
Jesus says those who obey His commandments “remain in my love” (v.10).
This is what being “in Christ” is all about.
And He says those who “do not remain in me” are thrown away and burned (v.6).
So, remaining in Jesus (through loving and obeying Him) is mandatory for final salvation!
“To remain in Christ means to love him, to obey him, to pray to him, to worship him.
In other words, to remain in Christ means to be joined to him spiritually, just as a branch
is joined to a vine. If we remain joined to Christ in this way, we will be like living branches.
And just as the sap of the vine flows into the branches and gives them life, so will Christ’s
Spirit flow into us and give us spiritual life. In order to bear fruit, we must remain in Christ.
If we do not remain in Christ, we shall not bear fruit. Not only that, we shall wither and die (v.6).
… There is only one thing that can separate us from Christ: sin. Sin is like a disease that
eats at the base of the branch. We will surely lose our union with Christ, if any known sin
remains in our lives for which we have not repented. … We can say that in our Christian
lives two main things are necessary: first, Christ through the Holy Spirit, must remain in us;
and second, Christ’s words, that is the words of the Bible, must remain in our hearts. …
In the Christian life, we always find two things appearing together: promises and conditions.
If we fulfill the condition, God will fulfill His promise. God has never given a promise withou
also stating a condition along with the promise … To remain in Christ’s love (v.9,10) is the
same as to remain in Christ. … To remain in Christ’s love, we must love him. To love him,
we must obey him (see John 14:15). As long as we continue to obey Christ,
we shall remain in his love, and he and the Father will abide in us (see John 14:21).”

… Dr. Thomas Hale, medical missionary (The Applied New Testament Commentary,1996)

All through the Epistles, people in the churches are condemned …
if they are involved in habitual sin (note: they have not remained “in Christ”).
“There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,
who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ has made me free from
the law of sin and death.” (Romans 8:1-2, NKJV)

Those who have remained “in Christ” are free from the law of sin and death …
because they are continually having their sins washed away through repentance!
“But remember, even though we believers have escaped condemnation, sin still remains
in our lives. Therefore, we are still guilty of sin and deserving of punishment. But if we repent
of our sins, God will not count our sins against us; He will not judge us guilty (see 1 John 1:9).”

… Dr. Thomas Hale (The Applied New Testament Commentary,1996)

(the uncondemned) no longer follow our sinful nature, but instead follow the Spirit.
… So letting your sinful nature control your mind leads to (eternal) death. But,
letting the Spirit control your mind leads to life and peace.” (Romans 8:4-6, NLT)

“We cannot live according to the sinful nature and according to the Spirit at the same time;
we must live according to either one or the other (see Galatians 5, etc.).”

… Dr. Thomas Hale (The Applied New Testament Commentary,1996)

“For if you live by its (the flesh’s) dictates (desires), you will die (eternally). But if through
the power of the Spirit you put to death the deeds of your sinful nature, you will live (eternally).
For all who are led by the Spirit of God are children of God.” (Romans 8:13-14, NLT)
It all starts with love, for there is no obedience without love.
 
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DPMartin

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ok, that's just about what every true believer knows already, or they are not true believers. so who are you speaking to, seeing this is a Christian only section?
 
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Copperhead

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The commandments that Yeshua gave are all centered around Love.

When asked to summarize the Torah, He stated Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength. And love you neighbor as yourself.

He elaborated later..

John 13:34-35 (NKJV) A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35 By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”

And the fruit of the Spirit reflects that....

Galatians 5:22-23 (NKJV) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
 
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Zachary

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ok, that's just about what every true believer knows already, or they are not true believers. so who are you speaking to, seeing this is a Christian only section?
Evidently, you are not aware that most "believers" in American churches today
are involved in habitually sinning (i.e. without repentance, obviously).
Which cave# are you living in now, I forget.
 

Zachary

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Sin’s Power Is Broken – is the heading for Romans 6 (New Living Translation)
6 so that sin might lose its power in our lives
6 we are no longer slaves to sin
7 we were set free from the power of sin
10 he died once to break the power of sin
11 consider yourselves to be dead to the power of sin
12 do not let sin control the way you live; do not give in to sinful desires
13 do not let any part of your body become an instrument of evil to serve sin (a la Mark 9:43)
14 sin is no longer your master
16 you can be a slave to sin, which leads to death, or …
16 you can choose to obey God, which leads to righteous living
18 you are free from your slavery to sin
19 you must give yourselves to be slaves to righteous living so that you will become holy
22 you are free from the power of sin
22 do those things that lead to holiness and result in eternal life
23 for the wages of sin is death
All of the above are direct quotes from the New Living Translation (NLT).
The time is running very short for you to REPENT and get with God’s will for your life!
Repenting of a sin (this what the Lord requires of you):
• have sorrow over doing it
• confess it before the Lord
• ask the Lord for forgiveness
• stop doing it
 

Job

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Evidently, you are not aware that most "believers" in American churches today are involved in habitually sinning (i.e. without repentance, obviously).

Everybody sins. Some more than others.

o
 

amadeus

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Everybody sins. Some more than others.

o
Except for those who have already overcome as Jesus overcame.
Every has sinned, but Jesus did not come for nothing. There have been some overcomers and likely will be some more before the final curtain is dropped.
 

pia

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It all starts with love, for there is no obedience without love.
Nor is there any LAW against Love, we are told, so no one ought to ever doubt, that when they ask something of Him, if it's based in Love, that He will not do, what you ask....But ask in faith with no doubting mixed in, and you shall see the Glory of God....
 

pia

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Except for those who have already overcome as Jesus overcame.
Every has sinned, but Jesus did not come for nothing. There have been some overcomers and likely will be some more before the final curtain is dropped.
I am a little confused about what you wrote here. Are you saying that we as believers are able to overcome as Jesus overcame ? If that were the case, would John not have seen a long long line of people, worthy to open the scroll mentioned in Revelation, rather than ONLY Jesus being found.
Overcoming till the end I believe is talking about our faith in Him, and holding fast to Him till the end.
No human being can surely say that they never sin anymore, I mean one stray thought popping into our mind, can be 'sin', which is why He had to do what he did, because it is IMPOSSIBLE with men.
A lot of Christians spend all their time trying so hard to improve their flesh, instead of living in total harmony and peace IN HIM and let Him do the work within us, through His Spirit . He is not trying to save our flesh, to Him it is already dead, as sin was condemned to the flesh ( that it does say in the Bible ).
Don't get me wrong, He shows us the way of love, truth and all the rest, and by that we do certainly do less wrong, but to be 'sinless' as He is , that I do not believe possible.
 

Job

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Except for those who have already overcome as Jesus overcame.
Every has sinned, but Jesus did not come for nothing. There have been some overcomers and likely will be some more before the final curtain is dropped.

1 John 1
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.



o
 

amadeus

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1 John 1
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

o
I did not speak it for myself. When a person toots his own horn, then the "pride of life" will sneak into and take away what he had. However, to deny the possibility is to deny Jesus:

"And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible." Mark 10:27

Tooting your own horn is indeed wrong, but denying the work that God can do in you may be worse.

"To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:" Col 1:27
 

liafailrock

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Jesus taught love, and in love, one will have a tendency to emulate the commandments in the OT, especially the 10 commandments. So while the OP has a point, we are not made righteous, nor does God grant eternal life based on our ability to keep the commands, but indeed gives us His Spirit to obey them. So are we saved by works? James said so, but the issue is whose works? Do I keep works to merit God's free gift of salvation, or is it because I am chosen by God for the purpose of good works by His power? There's no debate. It's the latter in which the "good works" saves us because we are in God's (not our) good works. That's faith. Straightforward and non-debatable. That all said, most of the church's eschatology today is basically Christ came to save men from sin so we "all die and go to heaven" and unfortunately that's the scope of most. I don't know about you, but when I die, I sleep until I am resurrected. The hope in the gospel is that of resurrection. Jesus is coming back, but beforehand will be great Tribulation followed by the "Day of the Lord". Even Jewish folk talk about the "birth pangs of the Messiah" (a Tribulation) before Messiah appears for the Kingdom. I am not looking to go to heaven, but for heaven to come to earth when Messiah comes back and we will be resurrected to rule and reign with him then. Revelation says we are Kings and priests, so the church today are some predestined to do that to teach God's way to all the world in the millennium (on a side note here, that's your predestination vs free choice argument. Those chosen are not the only ones saved, but the first ones). In Israel the counterpart is the Judaic tribe (the Kings) and Levitical tribe (the Priests) to teach the rest of Israel. But the Jew never had the birthright.... that went to the tribe of Joseph which technically is not Jewish. While the physical descendants of Israel became a multitude of nations (not Jews), likewise many people will be saved in the millennium taught by the "church" of Kings and Priests. Lastly, all those who never heard the gospel who died will be resurrected physically (the Great White Throne Judgement) to be tested or judged whether they receive eternal life or perish in the lake of fire to be destroyed forever --- this is the second death. I believe the feast days of Leviticus 23 are a prophetic outline of things to come and the redemption of mankind.
 

Dcopymope

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Do you believe John is mistaken in what he wrote here?


1 John 1
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

I think a better question would be is it at all possible to overcome our sins for the rest of our every waking lives through Jesus Christ. Paul didn't seem to think so, and evidently, neither did John.

(1 John 2:1-2) "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: {2} And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."
 

amadeus

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Do you believe John is mistaken in what he wrote here?


1 John 1
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
o
You did not carefully read what I wrote. When it is you or me or someone else saying to others,'I am without sin' that what John was talking about. A real overcome will have no need of announcing what he has done. To those with eyes to see it will be apparent. But, consider that Jesus was definitely an overcomer and most people either refused to believe who he was to if they did, they were afraid to acknowledge it.
 

amadeus

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I think a better question would be is it at all possible to overcome our sins for the rest of our every waking lives through Jesus Christ. Paul didn't seem to think so, and evidently, neither did John.
But Jesus did believe we could, not by our own selves, but by the power of God in us:

"And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible." Mark 10:27

And Zechariah says it here:

"...Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts" Zech 4:6

If we deny the power of God in us, why would consider it strange that we cannot overcome?

Is God not in us? If He is unable to overcome all of the ways of man in us, is it not because we are blocking Him? What did the apostle Paul say?

"Quench not the Spirit." I Thess 5:19
 
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DPMartin

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Evidently, you are not aware that most "believers" in American churches today
are involved in habitually sinning (i.e. without repentance, obviously).
Which cave# are you living in now, I forget.


are you talking about so called Christians, or believers. people do according to what they believe, Christians just say they believe. and since your not sayin g you are a Christian how is it you know what one ought to be?
 

Job

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You did not carefully read what I wrote.

I read every word.


A real overcome will have no need of announcing what he has done. To those with eyes to see it will be apparent.


The only One who is able to search the heart is God. It is impossible for you to know the true spiritual nature of an individual.


1 Samuel 16
7 But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not look at his appearance or at his physical stature, because I have refused him. For the Lord does not see as man sees;for man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart.”




So...


1 John 1
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.




o
 
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Zachary

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Everyone has sinned, but Jesus did not come for nothing. There have been some overcomers and likely will be some more before the final curtain is dropped.
Jesus said, "If the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed." (John 8?)
IMO, He meant that if you are a new creation, you have been set free from being a slave of sin.
Paul teaches this ... the new creation is no longer a slave of sin.
Thus, the born-again believer is now able to overcome the world, sin, and the devil.
But, he/she needs to exercise free-will and decide to NOT sin.
When he/she slips up ... it's time for some sincere repentance!
And the precious blood of Jesus will cleanse him/her from all unrighteousness.