Satan - who was he in the book of Job?
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- Jun 22, 2015
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Its all smoke and mirrors.
Some here want to see Satan advocates prove this supernatural evil Being really exists.
We haven’t seen it in Job...the adversary there is present for 2 chapters and not heard of again.
Every single person within the book of Job testifies the trials were God's doing and yet you and others would say "No!", we want to cling to a mythological creature conjured up in the minds of Greek philosophers.
What's sad is the posts are filled with opinions and not Scripture. We have @Job thinking a cut and paste with bolded text is enough.
It wont do. If you reply, and doubtless you will, how about a little substance rather than quoting a movie script.
Let's see if you can speak to Job and show your Evil Satan.
No smoke and mirrors
Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
you cant fight an enemy that you dont believe exists.
pia
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Your time here is short. You might want sling a few more insults before you're given the boot. Can't say I'll be sorry to see you go.
o
- Jun 22, 2015
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and a woman was there who had been disabled by a spirit for eighteen years. She was bent over and could not straighten herself up completely. 12 When Jesus saw her, he called her to him and said, “Woman, you are freed from your infirmity.”
So we have a woman who is disabled with a medical condition for 18 years. Jesus acknowledges it is an "infirmity" where the connected phraseology is indicative of trained medical knowledge on the part of the writer (Luke). The knowledge of the day was limited.
13 Then he placed his hands on her, and immediately she straightened up and praised God.
Jesus does not conduct some exorcism but heals the woman of her condition.
But the president of the synagogue, indignant because Jesus had healed on the Sabbath, said to the crowd, “There are six days on which work should be done! So come and be healed on those days, and not on the Sabbath day.”
The opposing president called it a "work" and a "healing" and no mention of supernatural evil.
Then the Lord answered him, “You hypocrites! Does not each of you on the Sabbath untie his ox or his donkey from its stall, and lead it to water?
The Lord defends his healing work by comparing it to the care they showed their animals.
Then shouldn’t this woman, a daughter of Abraham whom Satan bound for eighteen long years, be released from this imprisonment on the Sabbath day?”
Jesus is saying this woman has been bound by an adversary for eighteen years, referring to the illness and not some evil creature afflicting her over this time.
17When he said this all his adversaries were humiliated, but the entire crowd was rejoicing at all the wonderful things he was doing.
So the infirmity being a physical (or mental) weakness was removed and corrected in this woman on the Sabbath day, which offended the religious ruler because he failed to understand the spiritual meaning of the Sabbath, as per Isaiah 58.
Jesus' adversaries were humiliated not because of the conquering of a demon or evil spirit - that has NOTHING to do with the context of this passage. They were offended because Jesus had healed (did a work) on the Sabbath deemed forbidden by their customs. The crowds viewed the miracle as "wonderful" because it released a woman who was bound by an adversary 18 years i.e severe arthritis.
The focus in the story is those key words "Daughter of Abraham” - she is of faithful disposition!
Her presence in the synagogue testified that the Abrahamic covenant frees us from the bondage of law Galatians 2:10-14
A cause for great rejoicing.
F2F
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- Jun 22, 2015
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Okay...if you must
Firstly the passage nowhere mentions the terms "devil", "satan" or "fallen angel". Your argument in support of a fallen angel is an inferred argument.
Inferred means considerable notions are required to make your argument work.
Secondly, Lucifer is identified in the narrative, but not with a rebel angel. It is explicitly stated:
"Take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased!" (Isaiah 14:4).
You have no context and I believe if you were honest you would admit that the preceding chapter is a prophecy against Babylon itself, but now the prophecy is directed against the king of Babylon.
I could explain the meaning of Lucifer and how it relates to the context of the chapter (and the King) but this should be enough.
F2F
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- Jun 22, 2015
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Even the Pupil Comentary understands the true meaning of this section of Scritpure.
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer! Babylon’s sudden fall is compared, with great force and beauty, to the (seeming) fall of a star from heaven. The word translated “Lucifer” means properly “shining one,” and no doubt here designates a star; but whether any particular star or no is uncertain. The LXX. translated by ἑωσφόρος, whence our “Lucifer.” The subjoined epithet, “son of the morning” or “of the dawn,” accords well with this rendering. How art thou cut down to the ground! One of Isaiah’s favourite changes of metaphor. It is a favourite metaphor also to which he reverts—that of representing the destruction of a nation by the felling of a tree or of a forest (comp. ch. Isaiah 2:12 Isaiah 2:12 Isaiah 10:33,34 etc.).
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer! Babylon’s sudden fall is compared, with great force and beauty, to the (seeming) fall of a star from heaven. The word translated “Lucifer” means properly “shining one,” and no doubt here designates a star; but whether any particular star or no is uncertain. The LXX. translated by ἑωσφόρος, whence our “Lucifer.” The subjoined epithet, “son of the morning” or “of the dawn,” accords well with this rendering. How art thou cut down to the ground! One of Isaiah’s favourite changes of metaphor. It is a favourite metaphor also to which he reverts—that of representing the destruction of a nation by the felling of a tree or of a forest (comp. ch. Isaiah 2:12 Isaiah 2:12 Isaiah 10:33,34 etc.).
One of the definitions for devil is "adversary".
There are many:
Bibliography Information
Elwell, Walter A. "Entry for 'Devil'". "Evangelical Dictionary of Theology". . 1997.
Dictionaries - Easton's Bible Dictionary - Devil
Devil [N]
GREEK WORD STUDIES διάβολος 'diabolos' meaning 'Devil' 1228
Why would you NOT think the devil is a real entity if the bible speaks of it and Jesus mentions this entity and even casts him out of persons.
My question to you would be this:
I'm willing to assume for a moment that the devil does not exist - which is your premis, correct?
Then where does evil come from?
Job is right.
How do you PROVE the existance of God???
If you could, everyone would become Christian IMMEDIATELY !
God's existance and satan's existance can only be proven by the effects that they have in our world.
How would YOU prove the existance of God??
Helen
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- Oct 22, 2011
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Agree ....all this person is doing over and over again is defending Satan, who he/she obviously admires. BUT has never encountered ....saying stupid things learned from some other Satan defender.
I'm done, this is a silly , waste of time thread , this person has no idea at all about the realm of the Spirit.
Unwatching and unresponding to this stupid thread any more.
Satan is getting too much air-time on this thread. I'm out.
TO GOD BE ALL THE GLORY....GOD IS AN AWESOME GOD AND THE VICTORY IS HIS.
I'm done, this is a silly , waste of time thread , this person has no idea at all about the realm of the Spirit.
Unwatching and unresponding to this stupid thread any more.
Satan is getting too much air-time on this thread. I'm out.
TO GOD BE ALL THE GLORY....GOD IS AN AWESOME GOD AND THE VICTORY IS HIS.
The poster can be very sincere. Not all Christians believe in satan.
How they could not is a mystery to me when Jesus Himself mentioned him.
I'm going to leave this thread because I hate talking and/or thinking about the enemy.
I do hate the idea that there won't be anyone here to speak up for his existance.
your posting is way off base for a host of reasons, do people like you make up these lies for your own entertainment or what?
Satan is mentioned through out the scriptures as a angel that is the father of lies according to Jesus.
man this is one of the most deliberate removal of scripture from the rest of the bible I have ever seen.
My friend, I cannot prove for you any more than you can disprove. Believers live by faith, which means "the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" [Heb 11:1]
Or as Jesus put it, "... Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." John 20:29
Actually I do have proof of the existence of God, but I cannot share it with a closed heart.
If you are only speaking of satan, then read more carefully what I wrote in my post to you. The Bible clearly teaches there is an adversary. What you are trying to do is put forth your definition of that adversary as being the ailments as they are named and described by the medical profession. Such definitions, even if correct, would not prove that they do not exist or that they are not subject to Jesus as shown in scripture.
pia
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Sicknesses and ailments are the symptoms, the Adversary is the cause........
- Jun 22, 2015
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That's true pia.
The adversary as it relates to illness is the flesh nature. You only need to go back to the Law of Moses where all those skin conditions deemed a person unclean. Did you know the entire Law of Moses does not mention "once" the name Satan, Devil, or any other misunderstood name given. No warning - not one! We can comfortably conclude the OT is silent on a supernatural evil creature.
- Jun 22, 2015
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That's correct substance and evidence...prove all things!
Correct believed in things hope for things which have plenty of evidence to support belief.
You can look upon the heart? to discern through the internet a closed heart?
Sorry this is much of the same fluff 8 pages into this thread.
Luke 13 - the adversary was the illness which caused a daughter of Abraham to be bent over for eighteen years...if you believe some evil supernatural being "somehow" afflicted her with this disease, well that’s your prerogative, but I am here to show forth the truth concerning the word satan, its variety of uses in Scripture, and how it grammatically should be understood.
I sense there are a few genuine believers giving these thoughts sincere consideration.
F2F
pia
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When it came to the old mans understanding, yes, but he certainly was mentioned in the old testament.With Jesus coming as man/God , The new man, we now get to understand through everything He shows us and indeed did then....
He brought down a curtain of sorts between the spiritual side and the world of the flesh of man.....
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