Satan - who was he in the book of Job?

Stranger · Sep 24, 2017

face2face said:
The "Why" was a struggle.

That's a mouthful stranger!

Well lets state some facts stranger!...facts are good, because apparently the "I said so approach" doesn’t like "why" questions. You may concede that 1000 pages of Old Testament Scripture has NO mention of demons? Now before you run off to check, you will see a few possible references, but these speak to false gods which most certainly do not exist.

Understandably you turn to the first chapter of Mark to a strange phenomenon which you infer is a person taken captive by an evil creature who is possessing a randomly chosen victim. You Stranger, don’t find it strange that these demons should have been so active and evident in the time of Jesus, and yet nowhere to be seen for long periods of time before and after?

An even mildly inquisitive believer would be inclined to ask why?

I am sensing you are not that ‘why’ kinda guy.

Another issue to address is the fact that the well know diseases mentioned in the gospels as being a demonic influence are curable today by medical experts none of whom believe in the existence of evil spirits.

Another fact realises Jesus never believed or taught anywhere in his ministry the existence of unclean spirits (demons) or how to avoid them, rather acknowledging the thinking of people would not be changed given the difficulty with superstition at the time. Jesus tacitly adopted commonly understood terminology without supporting or encouraging such ways of thinking.

Another fact is that disease’s and illnesses are healed alongside your supernatural demons. It's clear to all reading that the gospel provides us a plain matter-of-fact diagnosis of the physical and mental disabilities Jesus healed.

1. “A dumb man possessed with a devil, (Matthew 9: 32).
2. “One possessed with a devil, blind and dumb: and he healed him” (Matthew 12: 22).
3. “(His friends said) He is beside himself. And the scribes said, He hath Baalzebub ... “ (Mark 3:21,22).
4. The demoniac was found “sitting, and clothed, and in his right mind” (Mark 5:15).
5. “Lord, have mercy on my son: for he is epileptic... and Jesus rebuked the devil...” (Matthew 17:15,18). People with epilepsy do not have devils!
6. “And they that were vexed with unclean spirits were healed” (Luke 6:18).
7. “A woman which had a spirit of infirmity... and was bowed together, and could in no wise lift up herself” (Luke 13:11).
8. “He hath a devil, and is mad” (John 10:20; the same idea is implied in John 7:20 and John 8:48).

And there is Mark 1

Just then there was a man in their synagogue with an unclean spirit, and he cried out, Jesus the Nazarene! Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are—the Holy One of God!” Jesus rebuked him: “Silence! Come out of him!” the news about him spread quickly throughout all the region around Galilee.

So he healed many who were sick with various diseases and drove out many demons. But he would not permit the demons to speak, because they knew him.

The word daimonion to the Greeks was first applied to gods generally and later to inferior gods. It was thought that these inferior gods, or demons, were the departed spirits of human beings. Good demons came from good men, and bad demons from bad men. Bad demons preyed upon humans, entering their bodies and causing certain maladies. Hence people with such ailments as madness, deafness and dumbness were described as being possessed with demons.

We have commented on the types of illnesses attributed to demons are clearly those which could not be related to an obvious physical condition.

Lameness was not attributed to demons because the abnormal condition of lame people’s limbs provided an explanation for their halting gait. But mad people, deaf people and dumb people looked like others there was no simple physiological explanation that they knew of and so demon possession was taught.

You see this in Matthew 9:28 and Matthew 9:32.

I believe, some reading this, will discern how Greek Mythology entered into the times of Jesus Christ ministry.

Cultural context applies here.

Are there ailments today which Christians automatically refer to as demon possession?

It equates to “sneezing and witchcraft”.

Strangers two letter acronym fits well here.

F2F

The 'why' was a reach. (Gal. 5:9-12) offers nothing to prove Job's adversary was human.

(Deut. 32:17) "They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not..." Devils here are demons. Quoted also in the New Testament. (1 Cor. 10:20) "But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice,they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils." These are demons.

Demons or devils can become false gods as well as anything. In fact, I would say all worship of false gods have demons behind them. So, you are wrong about the Old Testament not saying anything about demons.

No, I don't find it strange at all that demons are so active around the time of Christ more so than any other time. Satan and his demons would be especially active during that time period when Jesus came ready to set up His kingdom on earth. And I expect that there will be an increase in demon activity the closer we get to the second coming of Christ.

The verses I gave you (Mark 1:32-34) answers your statement about diseases. There were both diseases and demonic possession. Jesus healed and Jesus cast out. And there were some diseases caused by the demon. Today's doctors may be able to cure some of the diseases, but they cannot get rid of the demon. Which means in some cases the disease will remain.

That is an assumption and a lie, that Jesus only adapted to the peoples thinking at the time. If Jesus had adapted to the peoples thinking of the time, He never would have been crucified. Every time He cast out a demon He was teaching about demons. And those swine knew that the demons were real. (Matt. 8:28-34) Or were they just 'adapting' to the peoples thinking?

Again with your list of healings of diseases, I have shown you that Jesus healed diseases. Big deal. He cast out demons also.

Again, concerning your very lame remarks on (Mark 1) and (Matt. 9:28-32) more assumption on your part. The Scripture is clear that that there was both sickness, and demon possession. Again, the pigs knew nothing of mythology. But they knew of the demons.

Now as then you can have sickness and you can have demon possession.

Stranger

Stranger · Sep 24, 2017

face2face said:
Quote 1. Well, we know the jury is out on Job. Human adversay most certainly
Quote 2. "Your Father The Devil” – “who sinneth from the beginning” 1 John 3:8...This is man! Romans 5:12
Quote 3. A symbolic dragon but of what? Daniel 7 will help!

No, the jury is not out on Job. The Scripture is clear that Satan is the one addressed and is the devil. No human adversary here.

No, sin entering into the world in (Rom. 5:12) is not when the devil sinned from the beginning. Satan sinned before Adam sinned. When Jesus said 'Your father the devil' (John 8:44) He was speaking of Satan. Just as John was in (1 John 3:8) (Rom. 5:12) speaks to Adam.

No, (Rev. 12:7-9) is no symbol. It is war between God's angels and Satans angels. Dragon is just another name for Satan. (Daniel 7) doesn't help, but if you think it does by all means, explain.

Stranger

Stranger · Sep 24, 2017

face2face said:
In relation to Mary Magdalene in Mark 15:41.
Its clear she was seriously ill right? Probably with a profound mental illness.
You don’t seriously believe she had "seven" supernatural evil spirits in her, do you? Luke 8:2.
You get why the number seven is given right?
F2F

There is nothing in (Mark 15:41) to indicate any illness with Mary.

Yes I believe just as the Scripture states that Mary had seven devils in her. Yes I get the number 7. That is how many demons she had.

Stranger

face2face · Sep 24, 2017

Stranger said:
The 'why' was a reach. (Gal. 5:9-12) offers nothing to prove Job's adversary was human.

No reach.

The works of the flesh are manifest.

Fact 1: Narrative opens with wealth to set the scene.

1:3 His possessions included 7,000 sheep, 3,000 camels, 500 yoke of oxen, and 500 female donkeys; in addition he had a very great household.

Fact 2: Adversary is envious with Jobs wealth and protection.

1:9 Then Satan answered the Lord, “Is it for nothing that Job fears God? 1:10 Have you not made a hedge around him and his household and all that he has on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his livestock have increased in the land.

The Why question is made difficult when aimed at a supernatural evil being because there is no apparent reason for such a creature to be concerned with materialism or the relationship between God and Job.

It is more than possible the adversary has experienced (or is experiencing) some suffering in their life and are envious of Job’s ease of living.

(Deut. 32:17) "They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not..." Devils here are demons. Quoted also in the New Testament. (1 Cor. 10:20) "But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice,they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils." These are demons.

Demons or devils can become false gods as well as anything. In fact, I would say all worship of false gods have demons behind them. So, you are wrong about the Old Testament not saying anything about demons.

No, I don't find it strange at all that demons are so active around the time of Christ more so than any other time. Satan and his demons would be especially active during that time period when Jesus came ready to set up His kingdom on earth. And I expect that there will be an increase in demon activity the closer we get to the second coming of Christ.

gods (small g) – idols made from wood and stone – clearly not your demons, but I guess if you hold this belief you must try.

They made him jealous with other gods, they enraged him with abhorrent idols Deuteronomy 32:16

So you don’t find it strange the OT is silent on the subject – If I held your belief, I would be concerned about a God who choose not to instruct His people of such evil spirits and possession.

The verses I gave you (Mark 1:32-34) answers your statement about diseases. There were both diseases and demonic possession. Jesus healed and Jesus cast out. And there were some diseases caused by the demon. Today's doctors may be able to cure some of the diseases, but they cannot get rid of the demon. Which means in some cases the disease will remain.

Bold text is correct, diseases known to the age are called according to their name, however those unknown, particularly those relating to the mind, where commonly understood as demon possession, even though today there are few diseases which are unknown – if they had the correct diagnosis for all diseases back then, not a single occurrence of demon possession would exist in the NT. Example – Take Legion as an example, “being in his right mind” and other such statements, are very clear. (more of this at the end of the post)

That is an assumption and a lie, that Jesus only adapted to the peoples thinking at the time. If Jesus had adapted to the peoples thinking of the time, He never would have been crucified. Every time He cast out a demon He was teaching about demons. And those swine knew that the demons were real. (Matt. 8:28-34) Or were they just 'adapting' to the peoples thinking?

You may have missed the point. Jesus did not come to inform the peoples on all the medical conditions known or unknown at the time…I think you have run away on a tangent or misinterpreted was said. It’s likely Jesus did not know what schizophrenia was or how to diagnose it though he had the power to send such an illness into pigs which in turn drove them mad etc.

Again with your list of healings of diseases, I have shown you that Jesus healed diseases. Big deal. He cast out demons also.

Again, he cast out illnesses which were deemed “demonic” that doesn’t mean they were literal evil spirits though the superstition was common language of the day.

You would say a person with schizophrenia was demon possessed – ridiculous, illogical and out of touch with reality.

Again, concerning your very lame remarks on (Mark 1) and (Matt. 9:28-32) more assumption on your part. The Scripture is clear that that there was both sickness, and demon possession. Again, the pigs knew nothing of mythology. But they knew of the demons.

Now as then you can have sickness and you can have demon possession.

Stranger

Dealt with.

However...Schizophrenia affects approx. 1% of the world’s population. It is a prevalent disorder, primarily characterized as a disorder of thinking. The disorder also typically includes impairments of perception, motor behavior, social function, and emotion.

The pigs suffered terribly Stranger….for but a moment.

F2F

face2face · Sep 24, 2017

Stranger said:
No, the jury is not out on Job. The Scripture is clear that Satan is the one addressed and is the devil. No human adversary here.

Devil is not mentioned in Job although the adversary might be falsely accusing Job the word used is adversary:

(śāṭan) be an adversary, resist.

No, sin entering into the world in (Rom. 5:12) is not when the devil sinned from the beginning. Satan sinned before Adam sinned. When Jesus said 'Your father the devil' (John 8:44) He was speaking of Satan. Just as John was in (1 John 3:8) (Rom. 5:12) speaks to Adam.

Where is the telling of this story of an angel sinning?

No, (Rev. 12:7-9) is no symbol. It is war between God's angels and Satans angels. Dragon is just another name for Satan. (Daniel 7) doesn't help, but if you think it does by all means, explain.

O...dragon is another name for Satan which is another name for devil which is another name for Lucifer which is another name for ?????

Stranger, its time for you and others to revisit the Bible with fresh eyes purging all the unbiblical notions of fiery creatures and set your feet on a more solid foundation.

Daniel 2 & 7 could help your understanding of Rev 12 immensely.

F2F

face2face · Sep 24, 2017

Stranger said:
There is nothing in (Mark 15:41) to indicate any illness with Mary.

Yes I believe just as the Scripture states that Mary had seven devils in her. Yes I get the number 7. That is how many demons she had.

Stranger

That reference was to show Jesus healed many women in and around Galilee - Mary being one of them.
Okay the number seven is not a literal number of devils or demons but speaks to the severity and completeness of her illness.
What next.... A legion in the Roman army consisted of six thousand men - maybe 6000 demons possessed Legion...Not so!

Needless to say these people were extremely sick and the Lord was able to heal them.

pia · Sep 25, 2017

@Stranger If there is no way to personify the devil how can the Bible tell us that :" the devil walketh about upon the earth, seeking whom he may devour " seems pretty clear there, as well as the supernatural element. How else can he devour us, it obviously isn't physically ( although I suspect it can manifest as such once he gets started ) ?

pia · Sep 25, 2017

@Stranger I am so very sorry. I had it all a** about......got all mixed up in the posts between who is writing and who is answering.. Deepest apologies !

Stranger · Sep 25, 2017

pia said:
@Stranger If there is no way to personify the devil how can the Bible tell us that :" the devil walketh about upon the earth, seeking whom he may devour " seems pretty clear there, as well as the supernatural element. How else can he devour us, it obviously isn't physically ( although I suspect it can manifest as such once he gets started ) ?

Yes, you are exactly right. Don't worry over the mix up.

Stranger

face2face · Sep 25, 2017

pia said:
@Stranger If there is no way to personify the devil how can the Bible tell us that :" the devil walketh about upon the earth, seeking whom he may devour " seems pretty clear there, as well as the supernatural element. How else can he devour us, it obviously isn't physically ( although I suspect it can manifest as such once he gets started ) ?

Are you talking about a creature literally devouring people at will?

The devil (false accuser) here is compared to a roaring lion but elsewhere in Scripture lion-like characteristics are ascribed to men, not angels. (e.g. Psalms 22:12, 13; Psalms 57:4; Proverbs 28:15.

Psalms 22:13 is the source of the quotation speaking of human lips devouring people...which also fits the context of Peter's epistle.

I.e. Spiritual opponents of the true Gospel message.

F2F

Stranger · Sep 25, 2017

face2face said:
No reach.

The works of the flesh are manifest.

Fact 1: Narrative opens with wealth to set the scene.

1:3 His possessions included 7,000 sheep, 3,000 camels, 500 yoke of oxen, and 500 female donkeys; in addition he had a very great household.

Fact 2: Adversary is envious with Jobs wealth and protection.

1:9 Then Satan answered the Lord, “Is it for nothing that Job fears God? 1:10 Have you not made a hedge around him and his household and all that he has on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his livestock have increased in the land.

The Why question is made difficult when aimed at a supernatural evil being because there is no apparent reason for such a creature to be concerned with materialism or the relationship between God and Job.

It is more than possible the adversary has experienced (or is experiencing) some suffering in their life and are envious of Job’s ease of living.

gods (small g) – idols made from wood and stone – clearly not your demons, but I guess if you hold this belief you must try.

They made him jealous with other gods, they enraged him with abhorrent idols Deuteronomy 32:16

So you don’t find it strange the OT is silent on the subject – If I held your belief, I would be concerned about a God who choose not to instruct His people of such evil spirits and possession.

Bold text is correct, diseases known to the age are called according to their name, however those unknown, particularly those relating to the mind, where commonly understood as demon possession, even though today there are few diseases which are unknown – if they had the correct diagnosis for all diseases back then, not a single occurrence of demon possession would exist in the NT. Example – Take Legion as an example, “being in his right mind” and other such statements, are very clear. (more of this at the end of the post)

You may have missed the point. Jesus did not come to inform the peoples on all the medical conditions known or unknown at the time…I think you have run away on a tangent or misinterpreted was said. It’s likely Jesus did not know what schizophrenia was or how to diagnose it though he had the power to send such an illness into pigs which in turn drove them mad etc.

Again, he cast out illnesses which were deemed “demonic” that doesn’t mean they were literal evil spirits though the superstition was common language of the day.

You would say a person with schizophrenia was demon possessed – ridiculous, illogical and out of touch with reality.

Dealt with.

However...Schizophrenia affects approx. 1% of the world’s population. It is a prevalent disorder, primarily characterized as a disorder of thinking. The disorder also typically includes impairments of perception, motor behavior, social function, and emotion.

The pigs suffered terribly Stranger….for but a moment.

F2F

Yes, your 'why' question is a reach. (Gal. 5:19-21) speaks to the works of the flesh. Just because Satan does not have human flesh does not mean he is not guilty of all sins humans can do in the flesh. Sin does the same work in an angel that it does in a human. Did you forget the verse I gave you? (John 8:44) "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer, from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." Satan lusts, which means he covets. Satan is a murderer. Satan is a liar. And that is just one verse.

Also, do not think that jealousy is not in Satans makeup. He as a fallen angel is jealous to the core of man. Why, because to man is given the rule over the earth and not angels. See (Heb. 1:4-14) You say there is no apparent reason for Satan to be concerned with materialism or Job's relationship to God. When in actuality He has every reason. He as fallen and in a wrong relationship to God, sees man who is redeemed in a right relationship to God due to God's choice of who is redeemed. And it wasn't the angels. So Satan had observed Job. He just couldn't do anything about it until God lifted His protection.(Job 1:12) So, your 'why' question concerning (Gal. 5:19-21) doesn't work.

Concerning (Deut. 32:16) I already showed you (1 Cor. 10:20) and how that demons or devils are spoken of here. And if you just read a little farther in (Deut. 32:17) you will see again that demons are the subject. "They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not..." So, as I already explained you can have an idol or a god, but behind that idol or god will be demons. So, as you can see demons are spoken of in the Old Testament.

Your statement about demonic possession being only mental illness is just your assumption based on your belief that there are not demons and there is no devil. Believe whatever you like. Scripture says differently.

No, I didn't miss the point at all. You said Jesus was just adapting to what the people believed. And He wasn't. He never did, which cost Him His life. As God the Son, Jesus knew all about mental illness. And He knew about demons and possession. Just because you don't believe in demons or possession, then you again assume it is mental illness. Understand, there is much diagnosed as mental illness today that is demonic oppression or possession. Not all, but there is some. Most doctors will be unbelievers, and thus just like you label it mental illness. This may be out of touch with what you believe. But it is not out of touch with reality and Scripture.

Stranger

Stranger · Sep 25, 2017

face2face said:
Devil is not mentioned in Job although the adversary might be falsely accusing Job the word used is adversary:

(śāṭan) be an adversary, resist.

Where is the telling of this story of an angel sinning?

O...dragon is another name for Satan which is another name for devil which is another name for Lucifer which is another name for ?????

Stranger, its time for you and others to revisit the Bible with fresh eyes purging all the unbiblical notions of fiery creatures and set your feet on a more solid foundation.

Daniel 2 & 7 could help your understanding of Rev 12 immensely.

F2F

The word Satan is used because Satan is an adversary. And it is Satan who comes with the other angels, 'sons of God' to present themselves before the Lord. (Job 1:6) Remember (Rev. 12:9)? "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent,called the Devil,and Satan...."

(Ez. 28:11-18) (Is. 14:12-17)

Oh yes, Satan has many names throughout the Bible. Why would I want eyes of unbelief that you're looking through. No thanks.

If you have something to say about (Dan. 2,7), say on.

Stranger

Stranger · Sep 25, 2017

face2face said:
That reference was to show Jesus healed many women in and around Galilee - Mary being one of them.
Okay the number seven is not a literal number of devils or demons but speaks to the severity and completeness of her illness.
What next.... A legion in the Roman army consisted of six thousand men - maybe 6000 demons possessed Legion...Not so!

Needless to say these people were extremely sick and the Lord was able to heal them.

Oh. Well, Mary was indeed sick with 7 demons. And yes she was healed by Jesus Christ. (Lu.8:2) As were others.

There is no reason that the number 7 does not mean 7 other than your unbelief. You don't want to believe in demons so there couldn't be 7 demons. So, you change the Scripture. Indeed these people who had these demons were extremely sick. Extremely. They were possessed with something that no human doctor could reach or cure. Only Jesus Christ.

In (Mark 5:9) and (Luke 8:30) the demons said they were many. Was it exactly a legion? Could have been.

Stranger

face2face · Sep 25, 2017

Stranger said:
The 'why' was a reach. (Gal. 5:9-12) offers nothing to prove Job's adversary was human.

The passage is not to prove a human adversary, but to show the nature of the flesh as it works envy, jealousy etc. If you believe this well spoken evil being is concerned about sheep and donkeys you are not putting up a very good case for your evil Being.

(Deut. 32:17) "They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not..." Devils here are demons. Quoted also in the New Testament. (1 Cor. 10:20) "But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice,they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils." These are demons.

Stranger, quoting 1 Corinthians 10: 20 is actually working against you. The passage is talking about idolatry (no gods)...the whole point is they don’t exist.

for they are not really gods, but only the product of human hands manufactured from wood and stone. 1 Kings 19:18

for they are not really gods, but only the product of human hands manufactured from wood and stone. Isaiah 37:19

Doesn’t get clearer really - you were better to not go looking in the OT for your demons.

I did warn you not too.

Demons or devils can become false gods as well as anything. In fact, I would say all worship of false gods have demons behind them. So, you are wrong about the Old Testament not saying anything about demons.

This isn’t looking so good, far from convincing - no Scripture to prove that false gods are demons and the Scripture quoted proves the futility of worshipping gods which are understood "not to exist, at all" and that they are merely objects of carved wood and stone - totally meaningless.

So far the fact stating the OT is silent on your demons is true.

F2F

face2face · Sep 25, 2017

Stranger said:
The word Satan is used because Satan is an adversary.

Progress?
Satan is an adversary who can be human or angelic....never supernatural evil.

And it is Satan who comes with the other angels, 'sons of God' to present themselves before the Lord. (Job 1:6) Remember (Rev. 12:9)? "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent,called the Devil,and Satan...."

Can "sons of God" represent human sons of God? better check before answering!

(Ez. 28:11-18) (Is. 14:12-17)

Do you have something to say about these passages?
Please check the word you're alluding too and the context fits the proof, else we repeat a re-run of the past few posts, which doesn’t bode well for your demons argument.

Oh yes, Satan has many names throughout the Bible. Why would I want eyes of unbelief that you're looking through. No thanks.

Names apparently with no contextual relevance to your arguments at all.

If you have something to say about (Dan. 2,7), say on.
Stranger

Its the honour of kings to search out a matter

Try connecting the prophetical word....it will lead you to a few why questions.
F2F

face2face · Sep 25, 2017

Stranger said:
Oh. Well, Mary was indeed sick with 7 demons. And yes she was healed by Jesus Christ. (Lu.8:2) As were others.

There is no reason that the number 7 does not mean 7 other than your unbelief. You don't want to believe in demons so there couldn't be 7 demons. So, you change the Scripture.

...interpret the Scripture

Indeed these people who had these demons were extremely sick. Extremely. They were possessed with something that no human doctor could reach or cure. Only Jesus Christ.

In (Mark 5:9) and (Luke 8:30) the demons said they were many. Was it exactly a legion? Could have been.

Stranger

...could have been 6000 demons in one person - must be crammed in there

face2face · Sep 25, 2017

Stranger said:
No, I didn't miss the point at all. You said Jesus was just adapting to what the people believed. And He wasn't. He never did, which cost Him His life. As God the Son, Jesus knew all about mental illness. And He knew about demons and possession. Just because you don't believe in demons or possession, then you again assume it is mental illness. Understand, there is much diagnosed as mental illness today that is demonic oppression or possession. Not all, but there is some. Most doctors will be unbelievers, and thus just like you label it mental illness. This may be out of touch with what you believe. But it is not out of touch with reality and Scripture.

Stranger

Post #184 dealt with this and if you researched the NT for known illnesses verses unknown illnesses (mental or otherwise) you find they held these as superstitious phenomena, plenty of evidence.

Schizophrenia and the pigs!

F2F

Stranger · Sep 25, 2017

face2face said:
The passage is not to prove a human adversary, but to show the nature of the flesh as it works envy, jealousy etc. If you believe this well spoken evil being is concerned about sheep and donkeys you are not putting up a very good case for your evil Being.

Stranger, quoting 1 Corinthians 10: 20 is actually working against you. The passage is talking about idolatry (no gods)...the whole point is they don’t exist.

for they are not really gods, but only the product of human hands manufactured from wood and stone. 1 Kings 19:18

for they are not really gods, but only the product of human hands manufactured from wood and stone. Isaiah 37:19

Doesn’t get clearer really - you were better to not go looking in the OT for your demons.

I did warn you not too.

This isn’t looking so good, far from convincing - no Scripture to prove that false gods are demons and the Scripture quoted proves the futility of worshipping gods which are understood "not to exist, at all" and that they are merely objects of carved wood and stone - totally meaningless.

So far the fact stating the OT is silent on your demons is true.

F2F

Yet you were using (Gal. 5:19-21) it to prove a human adversary. And I explained to you how it doesn't work. Which it doesn't. And I explained to you how Satan also is full of sin and the affects of sin in him are going to be the same as the works of the flesh. Which you completely ignore because they show your error. No worry though, I will point it out to you.

(1Cor. 10:20) is all abut devils and demons. And, it is a quote from (Deut. 32:17) which also speaks of devils. So your insistence that it is only idols that is being addressed is wrong. They are sacrificing to idols, (10:19), but as Paul says in doing that they are sacrificing to demons. (10:20) Pretty straight forward. And, as the book of Deuteronomy is in the Old Testament, then there goes your argument that demons are not spoken of in the Old Testament. Try again.

(Is. 37:19) and (1 Kings 19:18) add nothing to your argument. Good verses though.

Your warning hasn't materialized into reality. Try harder.

Stranger

face2face · Sep 25, 2017

Stranger said:
Yet you were using (Gal. 5:19-21) it to prove a human adversary. And I explained to you how it doesn't work. Which it doesn't. And I explained to you how Satan also is full of sin and the affects of sin in him are going to be the same as the works of the flesh. Which you completely ignore because they show your error. No worry though, I will point it out to you.

Nice try and no, I was using Gal 5 to show how a human adversary, in this case, an envious one toward Job's situation would seek to see if Job would be so loyal to God without His protection. You recall the narrative concerning Job's wealth and how it related to the adversaries jealous statement? You are yet to mention your satan's motives? even the grand plot? something? And what of the evil the Lord brought upon Job?

What you have failed to do is prove from Job 1 that the adversary is a supernatural evil Being...I am sure many reading this are waiting for proof.

(1Cor. 10:20) is all abut devils and demons. And, it is a quote from (Deut. 32:17) which also speaks of devils. So your insistence that it is only idols that is being addressed is wrong. They are sacrificing to idols, (10:19), but as Paul says in doing that they are sacrificing to demons. (10:20) Pretty straight forward. And, as the book of Deuteronomy is in the Old Testament, then there goes your argument that demons are not spoken of in the Old Testament. Try again.

(Is. 37:19) and (1 Kings 19:18) add nothing to your argument. Good verses though.

Your warning hasn't materialized into reality. Try harder.

Stranger

What you need is a proof text that shows carved images actually represent evil demons.

If this is not forthcoming, no need for you to try any harder than you have...concede you have no evidence.

As you are finding notions (fabricated stories) are hard to prove.

F2f

Stranger · Sep 25, 2017

face2face said:
Progress?
Satan is an adversary who can be human or angelic....never supernatural evil.

Can "sons of God" represent human sons of God? better check before answering!

Do you have something to say about these passages?
Please check the word you're alluding too and the context fits the proof, else we repeat a re-run of the past few posts, which doesn’t bode well for your demons argument.

Names apparently with no contextual relevance to your arguments at all.

Its the honour of kings to search out a matter
Try connecting the prophetical word....it will lead you to a few why questions.
F2F

Satan is a supernatural being who is evil. Again, (Rev. 12:9) "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan...." Again pretty straight forward stuff.

'Sons of God' pertain to direct creations of God. In the Old Testament only Adam would be a 'son of God'. Any other reference to the 'sons of God' pertain to the angels. (Job 38:4-7) "Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth?....and all the sons of God shouted for joy?" See? Angels. And these angels were required to present themselves before the LORD and Satan was among them. (Job 1:6)

You asked for Scripture, and I gave it. Can you not follow your own posts. Or, are you more than one person I am addressing. Which is fine if that is so, but you need to pay attention a little better.

The names of Satan were in response to your comment. Of course it has relevance.

You're the one presenting (Dan. 2,7) as proof of something. Can't you do your own work? I am not trying to disprove the existence of Satan, you are. It's up to you.

Stranger

Satan - who was he in the book of Job?

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