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101G

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The third time????:
(Revelation 19:11-16)
ERROR, Revelation 19:11-16 second, first time (Revelation 11:3-7), and Luke 2:11 "For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.Luke 2:12 "And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger". no third time.
 

101G

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1 Timothy 6:14 "That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords. cross reference, Revelation 19:16 "And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

same one, second coming.
 

Dcopymope

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The third time????:
(Revelation 19:11-16)
ERROR, Revelation 19:11-16 second, first time (Revelation 11:3-7), and Luke 2:11 "For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.Luke 2:12 "And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger". no third time.

So who are these two fellows?:
(Zechariah 4:11-14) "¶ Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof? {12} And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves? {13} And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord. {14} Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth."

(Revelation 11:3-4) "And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. {4} These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth."

So Jesus, the lower case "Lord", as you believe, is standing beside himself? There are two different lower case Lords?
 

101G

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So who are these two fellows?:
(Zechariah 4:11-14)
ANSWER: John the Baptist, and the Lord Jesus.

So Jesus, the lower case "Lord", as you believe, is standing beside himself? There are two different lower case Lords?
scripture, Psalms 110:1 "A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool". understand NOW?.
 

Dcopymope

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So who are these two fellows?:
(Zechariah 4:11-14)
ANSWER: John the Baptist, and the Lord Jesus.


scripture, Psalms 110:1 "A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool". understand NOW?.

Nope, it really doesn't answer the question. You first would have me believe that John the Baptist existed in some pre-incarnate form before he was even born......in the old testament, and that one of the olive tree's was Jesus...........AND also the "Lord" he is standing beside. You can't have it both ways. He is either the olive tree, or the "Lord". If you are going to give your lower case/upper case lords credit, then it has to be consistent.
 

101G

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You first would have me believe that John the Baptist existed in some pre-incarnate form before he was even born.
ERROR on your part, I never had you believe any such thing. who ever told you that see them and not me, so don't put words in my mouth. second. John the baptist is no pre-incarnate. did you not read the scriptures? listen Luke 1:17 "And he (John the baptist) shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord". was this foretold in the OT? let's see, follow the blue. Malachi 4:5 & 6 "Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse". case closed.
He is either the olive tree, or the "Lord"
LOL, lol, olive tree there in Zechariah 4 is symbolic, my my my. Oh well.... the olive OIL is the anointing of the HOLY SPIRIT which both the Lord Jesus and John had at birth. see they was the only two men alive on the planet, meaning Spiritually alive. again case closed. next understand,
that the Lord is the LORD. you have no clue of "diversified Oneness" do you. for the last time. the Lord is the LORD shared, or diversified in flesh. if you don't know what "diversified oneness" is I suggest you view the topic, "diversified Oneness".

but look, I see you need more studying, so study up on the comparison between Moses and the Lord Jesus, and Elijah and John the baptist.

see you soon, peace in Christ Jesus.
 

Dcopymope

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ERROR on your part, I never had you believe any such thing. who ever told you that see them and not me, so don't put words in my mouth. second. John the baptist is no pre-incarnate. did you not read the scriptures? listen Luke 1:17 "And he (John the baptist) shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord". was this foretold in the OT? let's see, follow the blue. Malachi 4:5 & 6 "Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse". case closed.

Added parts in red:
(Malachi 4:5-6) "¶ Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: {6} And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse."

(Luke 1:17) "And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord..........lest I come and smite the earth with a curse"

I had to add words into the scripture in order for them to be referring to the same event...which they clearly aren't when not tampered with. Elijah, the prophet comes before the day of the lord, John the Baptist did NOT. They perform a similar task, but are not referring to the same event.

LOL, lol, olive tree there in Zechariah 4 is symbolic, my my my. Oh well.... the olive OIL is the anointing of the HOLY SPIRIT which both the Lord Jesus and John had at birth. see they was the only two men alive on the planet, meaning Spiritually alive. again case closed.

(Luke 1:17) "And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord."

You claim Jesus and John were the only two filled with the spirit, or "spiritually alive", yet he is compared to the prophet Elijah in spirit and power. :rolleyes: Was the prophet Elijah "spiritually alive" or dead?

next understand,
that the Lord is the LORD. you have no clue of "diversified Oneness" do you. for the last time. the Lord is the LORD shared, or diversified in flesh. if you don't know what "diversified oneness" is I suggest you view the topic, "diversified Oneness".

but look, I see you need more studying, so study up on the comparison between Moses and the Lord Jesus, and Elijah and John the baptist.

see you soon, peace in Christ Jesus.

Yeah, we all get it, after all, Jesus himself said he is one with the Father.......yet, he isn't sitting in the same throne as the Father, but beside him. It still doesn't prove your argument.
 

Dcopymope

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Actually John didnt have the Holy Spirit, Jesus was teh first. So no idea where he got that idea from.

Well, yes of course he was the first, but he still had the holy ghost regardless. This guy claims that everyone else, even the prophets were NOT spiritually alive. If this was the case then John was in fact "spiritually dead", since he is compared to Elijah, who was also " spiritually dead" according to him......:rolleyes:......yep, that makes all the sense in the world in the minds of the deluded. :confused:
 

101G

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Actually John didnt have the Holy Spirit, Jesus was teh first. So no idea where he got that idea from.
GINOLJC, to all. first @mjrhealth, you said John didn't have the Spirit?, let's check the record. Luke 1:13 "But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John. And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth. For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb". yes, from his mother womb. let me tell you all, God, the Lord Jesus, filled people in the OT with himself, meaning the Spirit, for the Lord Jesus is the Spirit, the Holy Spirit in the OT. even John's natural father was filled with the Spirit. Luke 1:67 "And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying, Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people". and remember, John's father Zacharias was under the OLD COVENANT, meaning the old testament. this is nothing new, Exodus 28:3 "And thou shalt speak unto all that are wise hearted, whom I have filled with the spirit of wisdom, that they may make Aaron's garments to consecrate him, that he may minister unto me in the priest's office". or Exodus 31:3 "And I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship". and take note, the Lord Jesus is that WISDOM, supportive scripture, 1 Corinthians 1:24 "But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God". now let's see where this WISDOM, who is Christ was in the OLD TESTAMENT. 1 Peter 1:10 & 11 "Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow". where was the Spirit? in them, the OT prophets.

so the scriptures rebuke those false statements as to where and what the Spirit did in the OT.
now, the second question by Dcopymope,
This guy claims that everyone else, even the prophets were NOT spiritually alive
Correct, all died in Adam.... LOL, how simple, that's why one needs to be born again. and John was born alive in the Spirit from birth. again read 1 Peter 1:10 & 11. and let me make another, even the so called pure virgin Mary had to wait for her salvation...... (smile)

so again John the Baptist, and the Lord Jesus still stand as the two witness.

Peace in Christ Jesus, the Holy Spirit.
 

101G

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the prophet comes before the day of the lord, John the Baptist did NOT.
the day of the Lord here is the finishing, or the putting to an end of sin. which John witness to. Malachi 4:5 "Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD". I ask, can the Lord Jesus LIE? God forbid, listen then, Matthew 17:10-14 "And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come? And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things. But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them. Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

now I ask again, can the Lord Jesus LIE? NO, so the scriptures is true, the Elias/Elijah did, and have already come. he have already come. so if you're still looking for Elijah to come, you'll have a long wait. second, right here in these scriptures, he the Lord, tells us who the two witness are. 1. John the baptist, and himself, listen, "and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them". likewise he himself will be killed as John.

now if one cannot believe the Lord Jesus in word, then one need not call themselves Christians.

Peace in Christ Jesus the Holy Spirit, as the Son, the Lord God Almighty.
 

Dcopymope

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the day of the Lord here is the finishing, or the putting to an end of sin. which John witness to. Malachi 4:5 "Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD". I ask, can the Lord Jesus LIE? God forbid, listen then, Matthew 17:10-14 "And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come? And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things. But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them. Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

now I ask again, can the Lord Jesus LIE? NO, so the scriptures is true, the Elias/Elijah did, and have already come. he have already come. so if you're still looking for Elijah to come, you'll have a long wait. second, right here in these scriptures, he the Lord, tells us who the two witness are. 1. John the baptist, and himself, listen, "and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them". likewise he himself will be killed as John.

now if one cannot believe the Lord Jesus in word, then one need not call themselves Christians.

Peace in Christ Jesus the Holy Spirit, as the Son, the Lord God Almighty.

:rolleyes: You don't even realize that Jesus actually confirms Elijah as one of the witnesses. This is of course after he is revealed from heaven alive and kicking talking with Jesus in all his glory.

(Matthew 17:10-11) "And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come? {11} And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things."[/b]

The actual Elijah shall truly come first, not DID come first, meaning this is an event yet to come....now onto John the Baptist.

(Matthew 17:12-13) "But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them. {13} Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist."

Yep, they knew Jesus was referring to John the Baptist in this instance because he already had his head lopped off. The real Elijah is never recorded in scripture to have seen death, certainly not one by execution. That day won't come to him until the appointed time. This is not me calling Jesus a "liar", this is just me rightly dividing the word of God.
 
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VictoryinJesus

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GINOLJC, to all. first @mjrhealth, you said John didn't have the Spirit?, let's check the record. Luke 1:13 "But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John. And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth. For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb". yes, from his mother womb. let me tell you all, God, the Lord Jesus, filled people in the OT with himself, meaning the Spirit, for the Lord Jesus is the Spirit, the Holy Spirit in the OT. even John's natural father was filled with the Spirit. Luke 1:67 "And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying, Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people". and remember, John's father Zacharias was under the OLD COVENANT, meaning the old testament. this is nothing new, Exodus 28:3 "And thou shalt speak unto all that are wise hearted, whom I have filled with the spirit of wisdom, that they may make Aaron's garments to consecrate him, that he may minister unto me in the priest's office". or Exodus 31:3 "And I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship". and take note, the Lord Jesus is that WISDOM, supportive scripture, 1 Corinthians 1:24 "But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God". now let's see where this WISDOM, who is Christ was in the OLD TESTAMENT. 1 Peter 1:10 & 11 "Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow". where was the Spirit? in them, the OT prophets.

so the scriptures rebuke those false statements as to where and what the Spirit did in the OT.
now, the second question by Dcopymope,

Correct, all died in Adam.... LOL, how simple, that's why one needs to be born again. and John was born alive in the Spirit from birth. again read 1 Peter 1:10 & 11. and let me make another, even the so called pure virgin Mary had to wait for her salvation...... (smile)

so again John the Baptist, and the Lord Jesus still stand as the two witness.

Peace in Christ Jesus, the Holy Spirit.


I have read all the post on the two witnesses. I'll admit; it is way over my head. I'm not good at concordances and meanings of words in Hebrew and Greek. I'm not convinced I have to be skilled in this area since the Spirit teaches what He feels I need in my walk with Him. It is a day to day thing: Him knowing what I can digest.

I will say my understanding is: Jesus was the first born of Spirit. Jesus was the first born of the Spiritual womb. Jesus tore the veil. As the parable(I am paraphrasing): I have sent my prophets; I will now send the Son, whom they also reject. Yes, Christ(Spirit) filled those in the OT. And yes, John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Ghost. Yet, they in the OT or John the Baptist were not born of the Spirit; Jesus was the first. Jesus was the First born of the Kingdom. Jesus was the first born that opens the matrix(womb), the first born to be sacrificed as an offering to God for sin.

Matthew 11:11 KJV
[11] Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

101, I will pray for understanding but I know nothing unless He wants me to know it and reveals it.

Thank you for taking the time to share your studies with the proper translation of words. It is helpful and a blessing.
 

Helen

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It is baffling how Jesus Christ is throughout the Old Testament; yet He was hidden until God opened scripture to reveal the Lamb prepared from the foundation. I have realized that just because I do not see something within His word; doesn't make it any less true. The truth of God is there. It His truth and doesn't change. His truth is not dependent on my seeing it to make it true. Like Paul said, we see things dimly. One day, I am sure, we will see clearly; even the New Testament and all the things we question "why did the LORD command it to be a certain way" and we will fully understand why.

Excellent!
 

Helen

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Hebrews 11, "These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth". see,

Good. So in fact it can be read both ways...for we know there was no punctuation.
So is it saying:-
These all died in faith.. .. OR is it saying "These all died in faith....

One saying ..which my husband believes ..they all died.
I believe it is saying that they died in faith (ie. to themselves..laid down their will for His) they, seeing what Paul saw...Col 3:3 "For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God." I believe Enoch and Elijah were translated into Paradise, because they had as Paul says...seen the awesomeness of God's plan of salvation and had laid down their own life and taken up His. Hence God took 'em.

Not that any of this matter one whit ...just saying :)
 
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twinc

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Excellent!


it is not understood because it is not understood that it is not understood but presumed that it is understood because it is not even realised or asked why neither John or Mary or any of the Apostles are mentioned as receiving Christian baptism - twinc
 

101G

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I have read all the post on the two witnesses. I'll admit; it is way over my head. I'm not good at concordances and meanings of words in Hebrew and Greek. I'm not convinced I have to be skilled in this area since the Spirit teaches what He feels I need in my walk with Him. It is a day to day thing: Him knowing what I can digest.

I will say my understanding is: Jesus was the first born of Spirit. Jesus was the first born of the Spiritual womb. Jesus tore the veil. As the parable(I am paraphrasing): I have sent my prophets; I will now send the Son, whom they also reject. Yes, Christ(Spirit) filled those in the OT. And yes, John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Ghost. Yet, they in the OT or John the Baptist were not born of the Spirit; Jesus was the first. Jesus was the First born of the Kingdom. Jesus was the first born that opens the matrix(womb), the first born to be sacrificed as an offering to God for sin.

Matthew 11:11 KJV
[11] Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

101, I will pray for understanding but I know nothing unless He wants me to know it and reveals it.

Thank you for taking the time to share your studies with the proper translation of words. It is helpful and a blessing.
GINOLJC, VJ, first thanks for your response. second, no you don't have to be a Hebrew and or Greek scholar to understand the bible, God holy word. again I say no, but reading and looking up words do help, ok. but let the Holy Spirit guide you, alright. let me tell you something, scholars don't know everything, plain and simple. only God knows everything, and he will help you in your understanding of him. understand this, in our daily walk, it helps to KNOW HIM BETTER by searching him out. yes, he's not hard to find... (smile). no one is better than anyone else, remember that. God have revealed something to some people, but he have not reveal everything to everybody. see, you have some thing that I don't have, so I listen, and I learn, just as you do. again, I'm not going to sit here and lie to you and say I know everything, no, because I don't. but what I do know I share. and VJ, I'm praying with you for your understanding.

second, the Lord Jesus is not the FIRSTBORN in referring to a natural birth, no it means preeminence. Colossians 1:15-18 "Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for (READ THAT AGAIN) And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence". understand VJ, firstborn is an adjective, and not a noun. so firstborn have nothing to do with the person itself. but a description of the person. meaning the rights and authority of a person. see, firstborn have two meaning, not just the natural birth meaning.

now your "I will pray for understanding but I know nothing unless He wants me to know it and reveals it". he wants you to know. look I'm going to post some things about the two witness for you to see, where you can know. I'll be posting it soon.

be blessed, and I pray that the Lord Jesus open your eyes.