Jesus and Commands

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KBCid

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And keeping what law justifies you????.

Why do you keep making this about justification? nothing but faith gives justification however, you can be rejected from the kingdom for willfull sinning. try that on for a moment.
 
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GodsGrace

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Well that throws this out

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

and this

2Ti_1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

was all about Him you made it all about you.
Remember that the judgement will be all about YOU.

Also, you do love to post Ephesians 2:8-9
You always leave out Ephesians 2:10
We are created for GOOD WORKS.

You see, mj, the bible does not contradict itself.
You don't get to post just what YOU like,,,it has to jive with the rest of scripture.

You must reconcile every verse with the main theme of the New Testament.

I'd also like to say that I quoted JESUS,
YOU quoted Paul.

Even if there were a discrepancy (which there isn't) we would have to go to Jesus for confirmation, NOT PAUL.

When you quote Paul to correct something JESUS said,
you are demaining God Himself.
 

bbyrd009

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Don't look toooo deeply.
Job is probably the oldest book in the O.T.
Could it all be literal?
Did they speak in a different way than we do?
Dialectics, as it's called.
It does teach us things...
ya, huh? but if you have any hearing at this one, i'd like to hear it!

...Surely I spoke of things I did not understand,

things too wonderful for me to know.

4“You said, ‘Listen now, and I will speak;

I will question you,

and you shall answer me.’

5My ears had heard of you

but now my eyes have seen you.

6Therefore I despise myself

and repent in dust and ashes.”

Epilogue

7After the Lord had said these things to Job, he said to Eliphaz the Temanite, “I am angry with you and your two friends, because you have not spoken the truth about me, as my servant Job has.

which is repeated at least once. But, can you find any problems with what Eliphaz said, even about God? Why does Job apparently repent of his speaking, only to have God condone his speaking after?
 
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Stranger

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Because he is "the word".

Scripture doesn't say the law is God. It says Jesus Christ is the Word. That is God manifested in the flesh. Are you equating the law to Jesus Christ?

And, if God is the law, then we as believers are no longer under God. (Gal.3:24-25) "But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unt0 Christ, that we might be justified by faith."

And, if God is the law, then God has been done away. (2 Cor. 3:7-11) "...For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious."

No, the law is not God. So, my question, does God keep the law?

Stranger
 

GodsGrace

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ya, huh? but if you have any hearing at this one, i'd like to hear it!

...Surely I spoke of things I did not understand,

things too wonderful for me to know.

4“You said, ‘Listen now, and I will speak;

I will question you,

and you shall answer me.’

5My ears had heard of you

but now my eyes have seen you.

6Therefore I despise myself

and repent in dust and ashes.”

Epilogue

7After the Lord had said these things to Job, he said to Eliphaz the Temanite, “I am angry with you and your two friends, because you have not spoken the truth about me, as my servant Job has.
Far be for me to claim deep knowledge of the O.T.
The above is Job 42:3-7
It assumes that Job spoke to God face to face.
The bible tells me no one has ever seen God. Which brings up WHO did he see, IF, he did see God. Was it Jesus?

Job says he hates himself. Why?
For the same reason we all should. Because when one understands the holiness of God, sin becomes ever more visible and abhorred --- or at least it should be.

If you have any thoughts, I'd like hearing them...
He repented in dust and ashes, we must also repent.
After we "see" God, we will hate sin.
There must be much more...
 

GodsGrace

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You should have a complete understanding of exactly what Christ fulfilled in the law.
This is a very important concept KBCid.
I posted an entire page of what "fulfill" means.
It probably went unread.
Some believe that it means that since Jesus fulfilled all the law required and we believe in Him, WE are no longer required to obey the law, although we will WANT to.

Which is very nice and I do agree that under the New Covenant we indeed WILL want to obey the law...

This does not abolish the law or our requirement to obey it.
 

Dcopymope

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Scripture doesn't say the law is God. It says Jesus Christ is the Word. That is God manifested in the flesh. Are you equating the law to Jesus Christ?

And, if God is the law, then we as believers are no longer under God. (Gal.3:24-25) "But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unt0 Christ, that we might be justified by faith."

And, if God is the law, then God has been done away. (2 Cor. 3:7-11) "...For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious."

No, the law is not God. So, my question, does God keep the law?

Stranger

The Law is the word, and 'the word' is God, which also brings judgement.

(Psalms 119:153-160) "ר (RESH).Consider mine affliction, and deliver me: for I do not forget thy law. {154} Plead my cause, and deliver me: quicken me according to thy word. {155} Salvation is far from the wicked: for they seek not thy statutes. {156} Great are thy tender mercies, O LORD: quicken me according to thy judgments. {157} Many are my persecutors and mine enemies; yet do I not decline from thy testimonies. {158} I beheld the transgressors, and was grieved; because they kept not thy word. {159} Consider how I love thy precepts: quicken me, O LORD, according to thy lovingkindness. {160} Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever."
 

Stranger

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I agree with @Dcopymope .

The question is wrong.
That's like asking:
Do you keep being human?

Of course we do. We ARE human.
God IS law. You cannot separate God from who He is.
God is moral. God is morality. God is the law.
Asking if He keeps the law is a sign of misunderstanding the nature of God. You can't separate a person from their nature.

The question is not wrong. It is a question. Does God keep the law? You can yes, or you say no. Which one are you saying?

Stranger
 

Stranger

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Stranger,
You can't mean that question seriously!

I have to assume you're getting at something.

God has a character.
God has attributes.
Part of the character of God is MORALITY.
God is a MORAL God.
Do you doubt this??

How would God change?
God remains the same God.
Hebrews 13:8 And FOREVER!

If something was sin in the O.T.
It will surely be a sin also in the N.T.

The sins have not changed....
HOW we could keep from sinning all the time HAS CHANGED with the New Covenant.

Jesus died to atone for our sins. To make amends with God so that a relationship could be re-established with Him without cotinually sacrificing animals.

Jesus is the perfect sacrifice so no others will ever be needed again.
Our relationship with God has been restored...

That does not mean that we do not have to obey God's laws,
it only means that no more sacrifices will be necessary.

I do mean it seriously. It has an answer. Doesn't it? Why is it so hard to answer?

Stranger
 

KBCid

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Also, you do love to post Ephesians 2:8-9
You always leave out Ephesians 2:10 We are created for GOOD WORKS.

YES YES!!!!!!

You don't get to post just what YOU like,,,it has to jive with the rest of scripture.
You must reconcile every verse with the main theme of the New Testament.

You cannot be more correct.

Part of reconciling scripture begins by understanding that translations are not the same as the original language. Most errors of understanding people get from translated scripture is because the translation has lost the intended meaning from the original.
If a person wants to understand the intent of the words God spoke to man in then you need to begin with learning ancient Hebrew.
 
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KBCid

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This is a very important concept KBCid.
I posted an entire page of what "fulfill" means.
It probably went unread.
Some believe that it means that since Jesus fulfilled all the law required and we believe in Him, WE are no longer required to obey the law, although we will WANT to.
Which is very nice and I do agree that under the New Covenant we indeed WILL want to obey the law...
This does not abolish the law or our requirement to obey it.

All that was abolished was how sin was paid for.
When Christ told the Jews to have faith in him he meant that they were to have faith in his sacrifice being the final one prophesied to come that would actually cover the sins that animal sacrifice was temporarily covering.
Most NT readers do not grasp the whole idea that Christ was sent to the lost sheep of Israel. He was sent to the Jews. Following the moral commandments was a duty every being owes God and their neighbor. Performing the acts of the law required to cover their sins was the one thing that was a huge thing to get the converts to stop doing since Christ was the final prophecy fulfilling lamb that would end all need to perform those acts ever again.

It is mans perversion of scriptural intent that wants to throw the baby out with the bath water
 
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Dcopymope

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The Word is Jesus Christ. The Law is the written word.

Does God keep the law?

Stranger

Ok, so you just basically agreed with what I just said, that God is the Law. I would presume that he does keep the law since the Law is holy as he is holy. Otherwise, that would make him the biggest hypocrite in all of existence, even more so than Satan. Its the same Law that is written by which he will judge the world when the time comes.
 
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Stranger

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Umm since God doesn't sin there is no need for them to be required to follow the law. Let's see if you can grasp that one.

So, God does not keep the Law? Can you grasp that?

Stranger
 

Stranger

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Ok, so you just basically agreed with what I just said, that God is the Law. I would presume that he does keep the law since the Law is holy as he is holy. Otherwise, that would make him the biggest hypocrite in all of existence, even more so than Satan. Its the same Law that is written by which he will judge the world when the time comes.

No I didn't. God is not the law. I showed you how God is not the Law.

So do you presume the law is above God, since you presume God is keeping the law?

Stranger
 

KBCid

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So, God does no keep the Law? Can you grasp that?
Stranger

Of course not. Why should God be required to keep a law that is not only no longer in effect but only existed for sinners?

Try and picture God going out and sacrificing an animal to themselves for sins that they never committed.
 
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