Recreational Drugs, Pharmaceutical Industry and Sorcery

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Mikey

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Jan 22, 2008
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Please show me mercy, I am new at studying the Bible.But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Revelation 21:8 (KJV)The Greek word pharmakos is translated as "sorcerers". Pharmakos is related to the word "pharmaceuticals"Pharma= Drugs Ceutica= RemedySo sorcery is somehow related to using drugs. Are we not suppose to find peace, happiness, and strength with God and only God? Isn't God a jealous God? Of course this included recreational drug use and alcohol. People that use these drugs are mostly seeking the same things Jesus has offered for free.I realize this is saying something very controversial in todays word, where the pharmaceutical industry is one of the biggest in the world. But is the industry on Gods side or the worlds? There is evidence to support both sides. One saying they are healing people from sickness. The other claiming money and power are the main goals and a lot of the drugs do more harm than good.I use to use all kinds of drugs a lot, and let me tell you. It is very hard to live as Jesus did and allow the holy spirit to work in you while on drugs and even around the whole drug scene. Thank the Lord he saved me from my self-destructive life style.Please forgive me if I have made any mistakes here. The last thing I would want to do is interpret the Word of God incorrectly.
 

His By Grace

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You don't have to apologize for stating the facts. Everyone, if being honest with themselves, should admit that drug abuse is the problem. That can be abusing prescription drugs, as well as the illegal ones. I have family members who look stoned every time I see them. They think that because it's a script they can convince others that they are okay. Wrong! They are obviously taking too much. It's like the illegal drugs. If people can make money off of it, they will. That's what's so sad. I worked in a pharmacy when going to college. It was good to gain the knowledge about the drugs, but I also saw some distasteful things. When someone has to depend on something other than the Lord they have become its slave. The Lord has been replaced. That is an idol in their lives. Of course, we all need to be careful of what our own idols are. We probably struggle with different ones if not with drugs. But, that one is a personal pet peave of mine because I have seen so much distruction among my family and others' families over it. It makes me wish we had a tougher system of getting them based on character that MUST be proven; not how rich someone is. Scripture says, "Bad company corrupts good morals." (1 Cor. 15:33) We are told not to be drunk with wine, but filled with the Spirit, which I think would apply to drugs too, since alcohol is a drug. (Ephesians 5:18).
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That's my story and I'm stickin' to it. (LOL)
 

Mikey

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Jan 22, 2008
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(His By Grace;32705)
We are told not to be drunk with wine, but filled with the Spirit, which I think would apply to drugs too, since alcohol is a drug. (Ephesians 5:18).
Yes that is a good verse for this! I feel strongly about drugs use to. So many of my friends are still using and have gotten much worst, on to basically the hardest drugs you can get. Although I don't see them much anymore.
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But I pray for them and hope they will be ok.
 

Christina

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Apr 10, 2006
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(Mikey;32694)
Please show me mercy, I am new at studying the Bible.But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Revelation 21:8 (KJV)The Greek word pharmakos is translated as "sorcerers". Pharmakos is related to the word "pharmaceuticals"Pharma= Drugs Ceutica= RemedySo sorcery is somehow related to using drugs. Are we not suppose to find peace, happiness, and strength with God and only God? Isn't God a jealous God? Of course this included recreational drug use and alcohol. People that use these drugs are mostly seeking the same things Jesus has offered for free.I realize this is saying something very controversial in todays word, where the pharmaceutical industry is one of the biggest in the world. But is the industry on Gods side or the worlds? There is evidence to support both sides. One saying they are healing people from sickness. The other claiming money and power are the main goals and a lot of the drugs do more harm than good.I use to use all kinds of drugs a lot, and let me tell you. It is very hard to live as Jesus did and allow the holy spirit to work in you while on drugs and even around the whole drug scene. Thank the Lord he saved me from my self-destructive life style.Please forgive me if I have made any mistakes here. The last thing I would want to do is interpret the Word of God incorrectly.
Very good many do not realize that sorcerers/sorcery relates to pharmaceuticals i.e. drugs It has been a very long time sense this was brought up so I'm glad you posted this. This does not apply to people who take prescription drugs out of nessicessity, but rather to those looking for escape, escasty, religious enlightnment, ect. Basically anyone looking to anything pharmaceutel rather than turing to God.
 

JonJT

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Jan 7, 2008
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Are we supposed to to abstain from drinking alcohol whatsoever? Is a glass of wine with dinner not allowed?I was of the assumption that drinking an alcohol beverage in moderation and in the right setting is fine. Is this correct?
 

SealedEternal

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Jan 6, 2008
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Are we supposed to to abstain from drinking alcohol whatsoever? Is a glass of wine with dinner not allowed?I was of the assumption that drinking an alcohol beverage in moderation and in the right setting is fine. Is this correct?
Alcoholic beverages are said to be lawful under both the Old and New Covenants, but with strict warnings not to get drunk which God strongly forbids. Paul told Timothy not to be afraid to drink a little wine to settle his stomach, and of course Jesus regularly had some with His meals. If one lacks self control they are better off abstaining altogether, and if we are with a person who struggles with this issue we are commanded to put their interests ahead of our own desires lest we cause them to stumble.I'm starting to think that Pharmakia may refer to all drugs both legal and illegal that are artificially manipulated by man to alter human physiology. It seems that the modern day sorcerers have a magic pill to fix all of our ailments without us having to live healthy lifestyles and take care of ourselves. Of course virtually all of them have twenty side effects for one benefit. God did give medicinal plants to use in aiding our health, but modern sorcery has purified and manipulated them to the point of making them dangerous. If you take the coca leaf for example, it is a useful numbing agent and pain releiver but man has turned it into crack cocaine. God probably meant it to be used legitimately but man turned it into a destructive narcotic. That's just my theory because I have tried to find a clear definition of the term but it appears that there is a lot of disagreement on the subject and no clear definition.SealedEternal
 

Mikey

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Jan 22, 2008
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(JonJT;32749)
Are we supposed to to abstain from drinking alcohol whatsoever? Is a glass of wine with dinner not allowed?I was of the assumption that drinking an alcohol beverage in moderation and in the right setting is fine. Is this correct?
Proverbs 20:1 (KJV):Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.Ephesians 5:18-20:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus ChristThere are many different Hebrew and Greek words referring to "wine" and "strong drink"The argument for and against alcohol can get quite long, whole books have been written on it. The way I see it is: if there is even a chance that God may not approve of drinking alcohol, why even bother? Is drinking a glass of wine or beer really that important?People argue that it is OK to have only some alcohol but not getting drunk. But what is drunk? Is tipsy drunk?Now people are going the say that Jesus drank wine.Back then there were too different types of wine. "New wine" and "old wine". New wine is in simple terms, grape juice. Old wine is wine which has been fermented and allowed for alcohol to develop. New wine still exists of course, it just isn't very popular. My dad has made it though. If you allow it to sit for a few weeks, it starts to develop alcohol. Then it has become "old wine".New wine is most likely what Paul told Timothy to drink for his stomach; as lacto fermented (new wine) is known to be good for your stomach.The only problem is that the Bible (or at least the English translation) isn't always specific about this. But I like to think the Son of God wouldn't even flirt with something that is regarded as bad by God (refer back to the verses I showed you).
 

Mikey

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Jan 22, 2008
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(SealedEternal;32754)
It seems that the modern day sorcerers have a magic pill to fix all of our ailments without us having to live healthy lifestyles and take care of ourselves. Of course virtually all of them have twenty side effects for one benefit. God did give medicinal plants to use in aiding our health, but modern sorcery has purified and manipulated them to the point of making them dangerous. If you take the coca leaf for example, it is a useful numbing agent and pain releiver but man has turned it into crack cocaine. God probably meant it to be used legitimately but man turned it into a destructive narcotic. That's just my theory because I have tried to find a clear definition of the term but it appears that there is a lot of disagreement on the subject and no clear definition.SealedEternal
Well said.
 

tim_from_pa

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Jul 11, 2007
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I'll give my stance on drugs. If one uses medicines just to bring numbers into specification and make the doctor happy (and drug companies rich), then they are probably useless. An example would be prevention using cholesterol medicine. So, instead of having a heart attack with my cholesterol up at 250, I would have one the same time in my life with the numbers being only 160. Sometimes such numbers merely signal a train coming.....But to bring the numbers into line without treating the disease is like shooting out the signal lights and saying. "See? There's no train coming to hit you." I think anyone here with half an ounce of wit can see where I'm coming from.On the other hand, medicines such as antibiotics for bacterial infection may be useful (used in moderation). We know the origin in bread mold for example. Some medicines are based in herbal substances although the doctor won't tell you---- the same goes for some glandulars (e.g. thyroid). What I am saying is there may be natural remedies that do the same thing and the bible (in the apocrypha) states the Lord created medicines from the earth, and a wise man will not despise them.Make sure you take lots of vitamins, watch the processed stuff in excess and lean more toward natural foods (esp biblical ones). I think much of our woes are brought on ourselves.
 

HammerStone

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Mikey, you hit the nail on the head with drugs, excellent observation and post in general!In regards to wine/alcohol:I Timothy 5:23
Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.
Jesus himself turned water to wine in John 2. I am sorry, but I don't see the need for an entire book on the subject, hardly even a paragraph for that matter. The question is not is wine bad, the question is doing anything that will overtake our Father is bad. Does drinking a glass of wine take you away from our Father? The Word says it doesn't, and that's good enough for me.
 

Mikey

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Jan 22, 2008
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Ya prevention is the best medicine. Eat what God gave us! Choose natural butter over man-made margarine. Eat organic, God didn't make pesticides...
 

Mikey

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Jan 22, 2008
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(Denver;32766)
Mikey, you hit the nail on the head with drugs, excellent observation and post in general!In regards to wine/alcohol:I Timothy 5:23Jesus himself turned water to wine in John 2. I am sorry, but I don't see the need for an entire book on the subject, hardly even a paragraph for that matter. The question is not is wine bad, the question is doing anything that will overtake our Father is bad. Does drinking a glass of wine take you away from our Father? The Word says it doesn't, and that's good enough for me.
Yes I have no problem accepting that Christians will drink some wine. Although I think a glass of wine would get in the way of God for me. Maybe because of all the trouble I got into with alcohol in the past. Now I choose to stay on the safe side. I find once people take that first drink they think, "oh why not another" and another...and another...I don't think putting yourself in a situation that Satan could use to cause you to sin is a good idea. Kind of like going into a strip club only to go to the washroom. You're not sinning by going in there, but oh boy the things it could lead too....
 

Red_Letters88

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Jan 5, 2008
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Mikey, interesting topic!My stance on this topic is similar to several of those here.However, I believe, and I didnt catch anyone mentioning this....The problem with the whole pharmaceutical issue is one word...DEPENDENCE!Money is the primary drive behind these companys intentions, I'd be supprised if 2/5 drugs prescribed were actually Necessary. People give up on faith and turn to men to help them...this only creates more problems.Now don't get me wrong, I believe God has helped men in the advances of the medical field, but when companys are selling drugs for..."MY LEG WONT STOP SHAKING!!!" there is definately a reason for these drugs other than to "help us".....money money money!!!
 

Mikey

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Jan 22, 2008
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I agree Red_Letters88,Many drugs are produced purely for the "almighty dollar".
 

SealedEternal

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Jan 6, 2008
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The only problem is that the Bible (or at least the English translation) isn't always specific about this. But I like to think the Son of God wouldn't even flirt with something that is regarded as bad by God (refer back to the verses I showed you).
I believe scripture does address the issue and specifically says it is not inherently wrong:Deuteronomy 14:26 "You may spend the money for whatever your heart desires: for oxen, or sheep, or wine, or strong drink, or whatever your heart desires; and there you shall eat in the presence of the LORD your God and rejoice, you and your household.Isaiah 25:6 The LORD of hosts will prepare a lavish banquet for all peoples on this mountain; A banquet of aged wine, choice pieces with marrow, And refined, aged wine.Jesus Himself was accused of being a drunkard for drinking wine, and the context clearly insinuates that it was alcohol containing aged wine:Luke 7:33-34 "For John the Baptist has come eating no bread and drinking no wine, and you say, 'He has a demon!' "The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!'It's understandable that people are leery about giving permission to partake in alcohol due to the destructive results it has on people who lack the self control to consume it responsibly, but the fact is that it is not forbidden in scripture, and is not harmful in the hands of a responsible person.SealedEternal
 

Mikey

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Jan 22, 2008
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(SealedEternal;32788)
I believe scripture does address the issue and specifically says it is not inherently wrong:Deuteronomy 14:26 "You may spend the money for whatever your heart desires: for oxen, or sheep, or wine, or strong drink, or whatever your heart desires; and there you shall eat in the presence of the LORD your God and rejoice, you and your household.Isaiah 25:6 The LORD of hosts will prepare a lavish banquet for all peoples on this mountain; A banquet of aged wine, choice pieces with marrow, And refined, aged wine.Jesus Himself was accused of being a drunkard for drinking wine, and the context clearly insinuates that it was alcohol containing aged wine:Luke 7:33-34 "For John the Baptist has come eating no bread and drinking no wine, and you say, 'He has a demon!' "The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!'It's understandable that people are leery about giving permission to partake in alcohol due to the destructive results it has on people who lack the self control to consume it responsibly, but the fact is that it is not forbidden in scripture, and is not harmful in the hands of a responsible person.SealedEternal
Wow, those are some good verses. You've given me more to think about! I may have made the mistake of looking for proof in scripture to support my own belief...Thank you for showing me this SealedEternal
 

Jordan

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Apr 6, 2007
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Drugs = Sorcery? ............Wow... that is interesting thing to hear. I did not know that, I only know that sorcery is referring to familiar spirits such as wizards, witchcraft, charmers, necromancer, divination etc (Deuteronomy 18:9-12)JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
 

Faithful

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Jul 13, 2007
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Please show me mercy, I am new at studying the Bible.But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Revelation 21:8 (KJV)The Greek word pharmakos is translated as "sorcerers". Pharmakos is related to the word "pharmaceuticals"Pharma= Drugs Ceutica= RemedySo sorcery is somehow related to using drugs. Are we not suppose to find peace, happiness, and strength with God and only God? Isn't God a jealous God? Of course this included recreational drug use and alcohol. People that use these drugs are mostly seeking the same things Jesus has offered for free.I realize this is saying something very controversial in todays word, where the pharmaceutical industry is one of the biggest in the world. But is the industry on Gods side or the worlds? There is evidence to support both sides. One saying they are healing people from sickness. The other claiming money and power are the main goals and a lot of the drugs do more harm than good.I use to use all kinds of drugs a lot, and let me tell you. It is very hard to live as Jesus did and allow the holy spirit to work in you while on drugs and even around the whole drug scene. Thank the Lord he saved me from my self-destructive life style.Please forgive me if I have made any mistakes here. The last thing I would want to do is interpret the Word of God incorrectly.
I think you sometimes have to seperate the elements of truth in the word of God from what is actually being thought to what is being said,.We know that herbs for healing originated in the bible. we know fig paste was put on boils and they healed. Even our bodies have built in healing properties so God did create everything good. Who would thought eating fruit from a tree could cause a fall. I think faith is about believing what God tells us. Look at Naaman told to dip himself 7 times in a filthy river. God could of just healed him there and then. But sometimes actions are required to receive. Sorcerers rely on other means and powers, not of God or his teachings to live. White witches and Black Witches all rely on a different power source.So if God says he will do something you can trust him to do it.Drugs all come usually from a plant source or even a synthetic source based on an original plant source. When we use the things God gave us like medicine to heal, we are not going outside Gods power. For instance he has given us a time pattern of 24 hours in a day, is it a sin to look at your watch for the time and not ask God?What strikes me is the fact you chose socerers to worry about when Lying is the most obvious to worry about. Because all the things above are not as common in all men as lying is in all men.Anyone who denies the truth about Christ is a liar and calling God a liar.I think your questions pose even bigger problems than first envisaged for mankind. But we know that those who believe in Jesus knows that their sins are forgiven and so they live in truth. Always seek healing from God and your needs before man. For God has the authority to use these to your benefit.I believe if you have a splinter then a pair of tweezers is useful to have about. It depends on how you really look at things.I think lying is a bigger threat to worry about.Faithful.
 

Mikey

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Jan 22, 2008
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Ya I agree with you Faithful, God did give us plants to use as medicine. But I wasn't trying to downplay lying or anything else there. I was just wondering if maybe sorcery includes more than magic spells and stuff. I posted this as more of a "hey what do you guys think". I'm not really sure myself. But everyone has been great and given me more to think about, including you
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