Charles Spurgeon's Sanity Litmus Test (are you insane?)

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

amadeus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2008
22,473
31,606
113
80
Oklahoma
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Who do YOU trust Amadeus?

I trust God. Among men I have found some in whom I could confidence in their sincerity, but that is not the same, is it?

The Holy Spirit?
How come He tells everyone something different?

It is not that different people are told different things. People receive the Holy Ghost and start learning to trust Jesus, but they are not always listening for His voice, or cut off his words before he is finished speaking to their hearts. Our communication with God needs to improve as we continue to walk with Him, but too often they do not. Churches, ministers quite frequently, I believe, teach people to quench the Holy Spirit in them.

Believers do not realize that many times they hear things that are not of or from God, but they treat those things as if they also were from God. We can make mistakes after receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost because we do quench the Spirit in us and our own fleshly minds kick in with our own conclusions sometime based on scriptures that are in our head.

Consider @"ByGrace" question about I Kings 13. That man out of Judah was a man of God. His prophecies about King Josiah were fulfilled. Yet, the man of God was killed by a lion because he went ahead and acted one time without checking in with God.

JESUS DID NOT HAVE THE SIN NATURE.
Do YOU believe He did?

I believe that as a man he had the ability to sin. If that is having a sin nature, then yes.

People don't study for YEARS to understand the bible.
Spiritually it could be understood, but that's about it.

The Apostle Paul did study for years and knew the scriptures very well long before he met Jesus on the road to Damascus. All of his knowledge was for naught until he met Jesus and began to follow God's lead in his life. Then the anointing was on him and one result we see is most of the written NT. God used the knowledge that was in him through the Holy Spirit. What did Paul have before that?

"[God] Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." II Cor 3:6

Paul had the "letter" of the scriptures, but without the Spirit to quicken them in him, they were worse than worthless to him. Before meeting Jesus he was persecuting God's people.


It's rather horrifying, to tell you the truth, that a Christian person could tell me they believe Jesus was born with the sin nature as we were.

If this is true, the His atoning sacrifice was marred and defective.

Adam and Eve were without sin until they sinned. They were clean and pure, but they had the ability to make dirty that which they had and they did. Jesus did not.

If Adam and Eve had rebuked the serpent and went instead to the Tree of Life and ate of it, we would have a different story, would we not?
Jesus did what Adam and Eve did not.

The ability to sin, is not sin. Jesus had the ability to sin, but He also had the power of God which was able to overcome the real temptations of the veil of flesh which he had taken on.... The Father of Jesus was God so the power was there in the flesh The mother of Jesus was a woman who had sinned, and so from her he received a body of flesh which had the ability to sin.

The sacrifice was a body of flesh that was kept always from the flaws that would have disqualified it as a sacrifice.


I'm not here to explain that milk comes out white.
You could take what I say or leave it.
But what I say is traditional Christianity, which I see is being lost rather rapidly these days.

Never mind tradition! Be concerned with what God has done and what He really wants us to do.

Man has done the same with and in what he names as churches that man did with the opportunity given to Adam and Eve. Do you see a church group anywhere that had all that is needed and has never preached a wrong message to people insofar as God is concerned? I have seen some better ones than most, they too as a whole miss the mark. God is looking to the hearts of individuals who have surrendered and are continuing to surrendering to Him. Those He will reform as a Potter that marred clay. Jesus was given a similar piece of clay, but it was never marred. It never required reforming.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Helen

GodsGrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2017
10,727
5,716
113
Tuscany
Faith
Christian
Country
Italy
Last time I checked Mary was human...born of humans...she had a sin nature...Jesus was born of Mary.
That's it.
You give up?
Some think they know everything and have nothing left to learn.
It's a darn shame.
 

Helen

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2011
15,476
21,157
113
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
@GodsGrace
If it was not possible that Jesus could have sinned..then what was it all about?o_O

So...was it possible for Jesus to sin?

So...it depends on how we define "possible" right?

If "possible" means,.... "Did He have the brain and the natural capacities to discern a temptation and choose it," then yes. He had a brain and he had a will. If he didn't, he would not have been a human being!!

He's discerning, he's thinking, he's feeling.
He knows what hunger is. He knows what sexual arousal is, and so on.
He knows these things! He's a human being. If he didn't have those then he wouldn't be a human being.

But .... the word "possible" has another meaning, an important meaning, a moral ability to.
There's a natural ability, which He must have in order to be accountable and human, and a moral ability, which He did not have.

A moral ability .... when we are bad enough to choose sin.
There's enough badness in us that we can choose sin. Jesus did not have that.
There was no 'badness' in Jesus.
 

GodsGrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2017
10,727
5,716
113
Tuscany
Faith
Christian
Country
Italy
I trust God. Among men I have found some in whom I could confidence in their sincerity, but that is not the same, is it?



It is not that different people are told different things. People receive the Holy Ghost and start learning to trust Jesus, but they are not always listening for His voice, or cut off his words before he is finished speaking to their hearts. Our communication with God needs to improve as we continue to walk with Him, but too often they do not. Churches, ministers quite frequently, I believe, teach people to quench the Holy Spirit in them.

Believers do not realize that many times they hear things that are not of or from God, but they treat those things as if they also were from God. We can make mistakes after receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost because we do quench the Spirit in us and our own fleshly minds kick in with our own conclusions sometime based on scriptures that are in our head.

Consider @"ByGrace" question about I Kings 13. That man out of Judah was a man of God. His prophecies about King Josiah were fulfilled. Yet, the man of God was killed by a lion because he went ahead and acted one time without checking in with God.



I believe that as a man he had the ability to sin. If that is having a sin nature, then yes.



The Apostle Paul did study for years and knew the scriptures very well long before he met Jesus on the road to Damascus. All of his knowledge was for naught until he met Jesus and began to follow God's lead in his life. Then the anointing was on him and one result we see is most of the written NT. God used the knowledge that was in him through the Holy Spirit. What did Paul have before that?

"[God] Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." II Cor 3:6

Paul had the "letter" of the scriptures, but without the Spirit to quicken them in him, they were worse than worthless to him. Before meeting Jesus he was persecuting God's people.




Adam and Eve were without sin until they sinned. They were clean and pure, but they had the ability to make dirty that which they had and they did. Jesus did not.

If Adam and Eve had rebuked the serpent and went instead to the Tree of Life and ate of it, we would have a different story, would we not?
Jesus did what Adam and Eve did not.

The ability to sin, is not sin. Jesus had the ability to sin, but He also had the power of God which was able to overcome the real temptations of the veil of flesh which he had taken on.... The Father of Jesus was God so the power was there in the flesh The mother of Jesus was a woman who had sinned, and so from her he received a body of flesh which had the ability to sin.

The sacrifice was a body of flesh that was kept always from the flaws that would have disqualified it as a sacrifice.




Never mind tradition! Be concerned with what God has done and what He really wants us to do.

Man has done the same with and in what he names as churches that man did with the opportunity given to Adam and Eve. Do you see a church group anywhere that had all that is needed and has never preached a wrong message to people insofar as God is concerned? I have seen some better ones than most, they too as a whole miss the mark. God is looking to the hearts of individuals who have surrendered and are continuing to surrendering to Him. Those He will reform as a Potter that marred clay. Jesus was given a similar piece of clay, but it was never marred. It never required reforming.
Paul also studied for years AFTER he met Jesus.
 

GodsGrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2017
10,727
5,716
113
Tuscany
Faith
Christian
Country
Italy
@GodsGrace
If it was not possible that Jesus could have sinned..then what was it all about?o_O

So...was it possible for Jesus to sin?

So...it depends on how we define "possible" right?

If "possible" means,.... "Did He have the brain and the natural capacities to discern a temptation and choose it," then yes. He had a brain and he had a will. If he didn't, he would not have been a human being!!

He's discerning, he's thinking, he's feeling.
He knows what hunger is. He knows what sexual arousal is, and so on.
He knows these things! He's a human being. If he didn't have those then he wouldn't be a human being.

But .... the word "possible" has another meaning, an important meaning, a moral ability to.
There's a natural ability, which He must have in order to be accountable and human, and a moral ability, which He did not have.

A moral ability .... when we are bad enough to choose sin.
There's enough badness in us that we can choose sin. Jesus did not have that.
There was no 'badness' in Jesus.
If He could sin, He had badness in Him.
The badness you call the sin nature.

Please post some scripture.
Where it says that Jesus was born with the ability to sin and the sin nature.

Or a link that explains your position because it's blasphemous, to tell you the truth.
 

Helen

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2011
15,476
21,157
113
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Whatever...we will see...I will lose no sleep....
 

amadeus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2008
22,473
31,606
113
80
Oklahoma
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Paul also studied for years AFTER he met Jesus.
Without a doubt, but he really had the Holy Ghost in him and was working on following God instead of walking out in front of Him.

"And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized." Acts 9:17-18
 

GodsGrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2017
10,727
5,716
113
Tuscany
Faith
Christian
Country
Italy
@GodsGrace
If it was not possible that Jesus could have sinned..then what was it all about?o_O

So...was it possible for Jesus to sin?

So...it depends on how we define "possible" right?

If "possible" means,.... "Did He have the brain and the natural capacities to discern a temptation and choose it," then yes. He had a brain and he had a will. If he didn't, he would not have been a human being!!

He's discerning, he's thinking, he's feeling.
He knows what hunger is. He knows what sexual arousal is, and so on.
He knows these things! He's a human being. If he didn't have those then he wouldn't be a human being.

But .... the word "possible" has another meaning, an important meaning, a moral ability to.
There's a natural ability, which He must have in order to be accountable and human, and a moral ability, which He did not have.

A moral ability .... when we are bad enough to choose sin.
There's enough badness in us that we can choose sin. Jesus did not have that.
There was no 'badness' in Jesus.
I said what it was all about in my post no. 131
Here it is again:

1. Jesus came to tear the veil, to open up heaven for us and to release those that were waiting in Abraham's Bossom. Luke 16.
Luke 24:45

2. Jesus came to offer us eternal LIFE. In Him is the spark of life, if we also have that spark of life, we will be resurrected in our bodies and live forever. Immediately after death, our spirit goes to be with the Lord.
Some would call this being born again. Same difference.
1 John 5:11-12

3. Jesus came to win and be victorious over SIN. How did He do that?
By liberating us from the slavery to satan. Satan had man in his grips and now we can be free of him by walking with God. We have been made truly free if we serve God. Those that serve the enemy are not free.

I believe you've brought Jesus down to earth TOO MUCH.
He is ALSO GOD.

I do hope you link something as to what you believe. It truly is a strange belief...

Why do YOU think Jesus came here to earth?
 

GodsGrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2017
10,727
5,716
113
Tuscany
Faith
Christian
Country
Italy
Without a doubt, but he really had the Holy Ghost in him and was working on following God instead of walking out in front of Him.

"And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized." Acts 9:17-18
So....
Those who study with MEN
do not have the Holy Ghost?
Who are we supposed to study with?
God in the flesh?

Have you ever heard of bible college?
Maybe we should just close them all down?
 

GodsGrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2017
10,727
5,716
113
Tuscany
Faith
Christian
Country
Italy
Whatever...we will see...I will lose no sleep....
Giving up again?
Know why?
You can't support your belief because it's very wrong.
VERY wrong.

Jesus DID NOT come here to earth just to show us that, wow, we could not be tempted.
And why would that have worked if we have the sin nature and He didn't?

You mean JESUS, who is GOD, became a man just for what YOU say?
Please state why Jesus became man.
 

Helen

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2011
15,476
21,157
113
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
I said what it was all about in my post no. 131
Here it is again:

1. Jesus came to tear the veil, to open up heaven for us and to release those that were waiting in Abraham's Bossom. Luke 16.
Luke 24:45

2. Jesus came to offer us eternal LIFE. In Him is the spark of life, if we also have that spark of life, we will be resurrected in our bodies and live forever. Immediately after death, our spirit goes to be with the Lord.
Some would call this being born again. Same difference.
1 John 5:11-12

3. Jesus came to win and be victorious over SIN. How did He do that?
By liberating us from the slavery to satan. Satan had man in his grips and now we can be free of him by walking with God. We have been made truly free if we serve God. Those that serve the enemy are not free.

I believe you've brought Jesus down to earth TOO MUCH.
He is ALSO GOD.

I do hope you link something as to what you believe. It truly is a strange belief...

Why do YOU think Jesus came here to earth?

Nothing to disagree with there...
 
  • Like
Reactions: pia

Helen

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2011
15,476
21,157
113
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Why do YOU think Jesus came here to earth?

To call, to purify, and to redeem a Bride for all eternity.

( why can't you just discuss something without have to yell "YOUR'E WRONG" )
 
  • Like
Reactions: pia

Helen

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2011
15,476
21,157
113
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
I didn't think it was necessary to also write...
To reconcile us to God
To show God’s love
To bring us to The Father....

But just in case...these things also...surely we agree there??

 
  • Like
Reactions: pia

GodsGrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2017
10,727
5,716
113
Tuscany
Faith
Christian
Country
Italy
To call, to purify, and to redeem a Bride for all eternity.

( why can't you just discuss something without have to yell "YOUR'E WRONG" )
Well, with all the put-downs I've received from you,
saying you're wrong seems very miniscule in comparison.

AND, because, ByGrace, what you believe is really, really, wrong.
I don't think I've ever said this before.

Jesus didn't have to come here to call.
People have always known about God.
Romans 2:19-20

Jesus didn't have to come down here to purify.
You sound like a Catholic.
Man was always saved by faith, even BEFORE Jesus was born, right?
We are never purified. Until the glorification of our bodies.
God could have purified us from heaven -- why didn't He just do that?

Jesus came down here to redeem a bride for all eternity...
Was He lonely?
What does this mean?
Did He come here to get a bride or did He get a bride by coming here?

The reasons you've stated are a by-product of His coming, but not the reason He came here to us.
 

GodsGrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2017
10,727
5,716
113
Tuscany
Faith
Christian
Country
Italy
I didn't think it was necessary to also write...
To reconcile us to God
To show God’s love
To bring us to The Father....

But just in case...these things also...surely we agree there??
Sure it's necessary!
Why write the incorrect reasons if you know the correct reasons???

Good on the first two.
What does no. 3 mean?? Do you mean heaven?
 

DPMartin

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2014
2,698
794
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Well, with all the put-downs I've received from you,
saying you're wrong seems very miniscule in comparison.

AND, because, ByGrace, what you believe is really, really, wrong.
I don't think I've ever said this before.

Jesus didn't have to come here to call.
People have always known about God.
Romans 2:19-20

Jesus didn't have to come down here to purify.
You sound like a Catholic.
Man was always saved by faith, even BEFORE Jesus was born, right?
We are never purified. Until the glorification of our bodies.
God could have purified us from heaven -- why didn't He just do that?

Jesus came down here to redeem a bride for all eternity...
Was He lonely?
What does this mean?
Did He come here to get a bride or did He get a bride by coming here?

The reasons you've stated are a by-product of His coming, but not the reason He came here to us.


this is what I know GodsGrace; those who love the Truth respond to the Truth in subjection and reverence for the Truth, yielding to and acknowledging the Truth.

those who don't, can't acknowledge what they can't recognize and they can't recognize what they don't know, even if its right in front of them. and many trust their theology made by man, to tell them what is true, and not the Truth.
 
  • Like
Reactions: pia and Helen

GodsGrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2017
10,727
5,716
113
Tuscany
Faith
Christian
Country
Italy
this is what I know GodsGrace; those who love the Truth respond to the Truth in subjection and reverence for the Truth, yielding to and acknowledging the Truth.

those who don't, can't acknowledge what they can't recognize and they can't recognize what they don't know, even if its right in front of them. and many trust their theology made by man, to tell them what is true, and not the Truth.
Who knows the truth?
The one who studies theology of man?
I still go to learn my faith.
Is this wrong?
Should I just stay home and not go?
There are persons here who are saying Jesus was born with the sin nature..
IOW, calling Him a sinner.
Some here speak of reincarnation.
The apostles had Jesus.
Paul had to study...and yet it was he who wrote so much of the
NT.
I guess I don't understand you.
 

Helen

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2011
15,476
21,157
113
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
I still go to learn my faith.

Faith is not learned.
If you have to 'learn' what it is that you believe..then you don't know what 'you' believe.. until someone else tells you!!o_O That is not faith.

Romans 12:3 " For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith."
 

pia

Well-Known Member
May 30, 2009
2,003
1,678
113
70
West Australia
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
If it was not possible that Jesus could have sinned..then what was it all about
Hi...I agree, if it had not been possible for Jesus to sin, how would His redemption be 'legally' valid ? What did He overcome ? Well, sin ! He had to choose to do that, same as He had to choose in the garden of Gethsemane, to do what the Father had asked of Him, even though it was getting a little close for comfort at that point.
If it had been able to be done any other way, God would have just done it from up there :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Helen

epostle1

Well-Known Member
Sep 24, 2012
3,326
507
113
72
Essex
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
I can't read Revelation. Don't know why. Maybe it's not concrete enough for my personality.
I have trouble with it too, but for a few verses.

Anyway, did you ever read The Supper of the Lamb by Scott Hahn?
It's based on Revelation and how it resembles the Mass.
It's great.
Not yet. I've read other books by Scott Hahn. A superb teacher.

Regarding O.S...
If we're born with original sin, that means God imputes to us the sin of another. Jesus said this was wrong.
John 9:2-3
Romans 5 explains O.S.

We are effected by Adam's sin, but we are not held responsible for it.
We are all born with concupiscence or the sin nature. It's this sin nature that make us be lost at our birth.

Is O.S. Adam's disobedience of God -- the first sin,
or the sin nature?

I understand O.S. to be the first sin, the disobedience of Adam toward God.
That's correct. O.S. is contracted, not committed by a conscious choice. Therefore it can be removed without a conscious choice.