It is not in the bible.....sola scripture

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amadeus

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The term “eight souls were saved by water” does not mean “saved by baptism” rather it means eight people were saved by the “flood” as everybody else in the world perished.

Indeed, the water which drowned the rest of the world is like the water on which Peter walked until he looked away from Jesus at the apparent dangers around him. Then he started to sink in the sea of lost humanity. Peter was not lost because he cried out..."Lord save me"
 

mjrhealth

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this is the great mistake and error that is made again and again - this is not addressed to us - twinc
so thats why men run around arguing over who is right, they simply dont have teh Holy Spirit???
 

twinc

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And the reason you know this twinc is because...???

because, it seems, the obvious is not obvious to most who prefer to imagine - because of Jn 14 :17 and because we now have the Bible which they didn't have - twinc
 

twinc

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so thats why men run around arguing over who is right, they simply dont have teh Holy Spirit???

no - it is because they/we have the unholy Spirit appearing as the Holy Spirit as an angel of light = wolves in sheep clothing etc - twinc
 

amadeus

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because, it seems, the obvious is not obvious to most who prefer to imagine - because of Jn 14 :17 and because we now have the Bible which they didn't have - twinc
I know twinc that you only seem to be hopeless for God still holds out hope for you... even though when you are the source you hold it as always accurate, while comes from any who disagrees with you it is imagination.

God does speak to people's hearts through the Holy Spirit. Under the law God gave to Moses, there were very limited points of access for most people to God [priests and prophets], but the sacrifice of Jesus and the gift of the Holy Ghost changed that.
 
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mjrhealth

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no - it is because they/we have the unholy Spirit appearing as the Holy Spirit as an angel of light = wolves in sheep clothing etc - twinc
or is it simply they have no faith in God, so rely upon there own understanding seeking to justify all their studying and learning,??

Act_10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Act_10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

1Jn_5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

but than who am I , not a learned man

Mat 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
Mat 11:26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.

Better to be a fool in the eyes of men than be a fool in teh eyes of God.
 

Jun2u

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Indeed, the water which drowned the rest of the world is like the water on which Peter walked until he looked away from Jesus at the apparent dangers around him. Then he started to sink in the sea of lost humanity. Peter was not lost because he cried out..."Lord save me"


Thanks for your response. However, I see another point of view on your example about Peter sinking into the ocean. Peter was not in view at the saving of eight in the flood.

When we do not focus our eyes on Jesus at any time we will always get into trouble and will begin to falter and sink. I believe this is the teaching of Matthew 14:29-30.

To God Be The Glory
 

Jun2u

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lets not rely on human interpretation but lets just see what Jesus taught not just in words but also by example as at Matt 3 :17 = baptism opens heaven to us as heirs and beloved sons of God - imho - twinc


I'm glad Matthew 3:17 is just your opinion, besides it has nothing to do with my post.

If you have anything to say about water baptism then say it and I'll gladly entertain your comments or questions.

To God Be The Glory
 

twinc

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or is it simply they have no faith in God, so rely upon there own understanding seeking to justify all their studying and learning,??

Act_10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Act_10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

1Jn_5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

but than who am I , not a learned man

Mat 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
Mat 11:26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.

Better to be a fool in the eyes of men than be a fool in teh eyes of God.
or is it simply they have no faith in God, so rely upon there own understanding seeking to justify all their studying and learning,??

Act_10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Act_10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

1Jn_5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

but than who am I , not a learned man

Mat 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
Mat 11:26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.

Better to be a fool in the eyes of men than be a fool in teh eyes of God.



we only truly have our own variant understanding and interpretation but most dare to claim Holy Spirit inspiration and guidance for these variants - this is foolishness bordering on blasphemy - twinc
 

OzSpen

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I stand by that statement because wikipedia is NOT a primary source.

Always go to the primary source. This is a blunder that many people make when attempting to explain what the Catholic Church teaches - instead of going directly to the Catechism.

Norman Geisler directed me to his primary source which he posted on Wikipedia. I generally don't recommend Wikipedia as an authoritative source, but when Geisler directs me to his own outline of apologetics on Wikipedia, I know he is directing me to his primary source.

Facts are stubborn things.

Oz
 

twinc

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so thats why men run around arguing over who is right, they simply dont have teh Holy Spirit???

yes of course but even worse than that because most seem to have been told and accepted that they have been correctly and individually inspired and guided by the Holy Spirit and only Catholics and the Pope in particular have not and that this also has been revealed to them by the Holy Spirit - twinc
 

OzSpen

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I'm glad Matthew 3:17 is just your opinion, besides it has nothing to do with my post.

If you have anything to say about water baptism then say it and I'll gladly entertain your comments or questions.

To God Be The Glory

Would you please back quote so that I know to whom you refer when you make this kind of post?
 

OzSpen

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Thanks for your response. However, I see another point of view on your example about Peter sinking into the ocean. Peter was not in view at the saving of eight in the flood.

When we do not focus our eyes on Jesus at any time we will always get into trouble and will begin to falter and sink. I believe this is the teaching of Matthew 14:29-30.

To God Be The Glory

That is allegorical interpretation of Matt 14:29-30. It is not what the text states. Allegorical interpretation looks for the supposed 'deeper meaning' in a text and does not deal with the plain meaning of the text. It is very much like the postmodern deconstruction method where the reader makes the text mean whatever he/she wants it to mean and doesn't try to find the intention of the original writer.

See: What is wrong with the allegorical interpretation method?

Oz
 

mjrhealth

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we only truly have our own variant understanding and interpretation but most dare to claim Holy Spirit inspiration and guidance for these variants - this is foolishness bordering on blasphemy - twinc
So you have no faith so you say all those who actually do blasphemy. nice....
 
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mjrhealth

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yes of course but even worse than that because most seem to have been told and accepted that they have been correctly and individually inspired and guided by the Holy Spirit and only Catholics and the Pope in particular have not and that this also has been revealed to them by the Holy Spirit - twinc
But we know them by there fruit. You cant accept teh leading of teh Holy Spirit, thats your problem, plenty of others do.

1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

But men would rather boast of there learning.
 
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Jun2u

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That is allegorical interpretation of Matt 14:29-30. It is not what the text states. Allegorical interpretation looks for the supposed 'deeper meaning' in a text and does not deal with the plain meaning of the text. It is very much like the postmodern deconstruction method where the reader makes the text mean whatever he/she wants it to mean and doesn't try to find the intention of the original writer.

See: What is wrong with the allegorical interpretation method?

Oz


FYI, the reason people do not understand how to read Scriptures is because they do not know how to connect the dots, that is, by comparing scripture with scripture. Most of all, they do not understand that Jesus spoke in parables and without a parable He did not speak. A parable is an earthly story with a spiritual / heavenly meaning and by this makes the whole Bible a story book.

So when we read about the story of Matthew 14:29-30, what do we see or what teaching is God trying to tell us? Someone gave his views and I gave mine. Now you come along and give yet another view by quoting postmodern deconstruction method as if this is a more superior way to understand Scripture better than 2 Timothy 3:16.
Now you're telling us or at least me to see, What is wrong with the allegorical interpretation method? As if I am not aware of
1 Corinthians 2:14 which I believe is more superior, because it is the word of God.

To God Be The Glory
 

OzSpen

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FYI, the reason people do not understand how to read Scriptures is because they do not know how to connect the dots, that is, by comparing scripture with scripture. Most of all, they do not understand that Jesus spoke in parables and without a parable He did not speak. A parable is an earthly story with a spiritual / heavenly meaning and by this makes the whole Bible a story book.

So when we read about the story of Matthew 14:29-30, what do we see or what teaching is God trying to tell us? Someone gave his views and I gave mine. Now you come along and give yet another view by quoting postmodern deconstruction method as if this is a more superior way to understand Scripture better than 2 Timothy 3:16.
Now you're telling us or at least me to see, What is wrong with the allegorical interpretation method? As if I am not aware of
1 Corinthians 2:14 which I believe is more superior, because it is the word of God.

To God Be The Glory

Jun2u,

You did not address the matter I raised about the damage done by allegorical interpretation, which you used for Matt 14:29-30.

We know from the context of Matt 14:29-30 that Jesus was talking literally of Jesus walking on the lake and calling Peter to take courage and walk on the water. The context states:

22 Immediately Jesus made the disciples get into the boat and go on ahead of him to the other side, while he dismissed the crowd. 23 After he had dismissed them, he went up on a mountainside by himself to pray. Later that night, he was there alone, 24 and the boat was already a considerable distance from land, buffeted by the waves because the wind was against it.

25 Shortly before dawn Jesus went out to them, walking on the lake. 26 When the disciples saw him walking on the lake, they were terrified. “It’s a ghost,” they said, and cried out in fear.

27 But Jesus immediately said to them: “Take courage! It is I. Don’t be afraid.”

28 “Lord, if it’s you,” Peter replied, “tell me to come to you on the water.”

29 “Come,” he said.

Then Peter got down out of the boat, walked on the water and came toward Jesus. 30 But when he saw the wind, he was afraid and, beginning to sink, cried out, “Lord, save me!”

31 Immediately Jesus reached out his hand and caught him. “You of little faith,” he said, “why did you doubt?”

32 And when they climbed into the boat, the wind died down. 33 Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”

34 When they had crossed over, they landed at Gennesaret. 35 And when the men of that place recognized Jesus, they sent word to all the surrounding country. People brought all their sick to him 36 and begged him to let the sick just touch the edge of his cloak, and all who touched it were healed (Matt 14:22-35 NIV).​

You interpreted it allegorically and gave it a different meaning. This is very dangerous because it debunks the plain meaning of the text. I do NOT support allegorical interpretation NOR postmodern deconstruction because neither of these 2 methods addresses the narrative - the plain meaning - of the text. Both approaches give the interpreters liberty to decide on their own meanings and they don't want to accept the intent of the original author in what he wrote, in the case of Matthew or any other author.

You did this by stating that Peter was not in view in the Matt 14 passage. You wrote:

When we do not focus our eyes on Jesus at any time we will always get into trouble and will begin to falter and sink. I believe this is the teaching of Matthew 14:29-30.​

This is inventing your own meaning of what the text states and it gives you, the reader, the opportunity to insert your own meaning and sound spiritual in doing it: 'When we do not focus our eyes on Jesus'. This is found nowhere in the text. It is imposing your own meaning on the text.

Imagine what would happen if I read your post with an allegorical interpretation or postmodern deconstruction - as you have done here?

See: 'The rise of allegorical interpretation' (Bible Study Tools).

Oz
 

twinc

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But we know them by there fruit. You cant accept teh leading of teh Holy Spirit, thats your problem, plenty of others do.

1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

But men would rather boast of there learning.


lets for a change be reasonable and not radicalised - again be told the big mistake or error is to apply to us what does not apply to us 1Jn 2:27 is not addressed to us - stop boasting about your learning which is fallacious - so yes the centuries have come and gone and even now we can judge "by their fruits we know them = division, dissent, disagreement, disputes, despair, contradictions, confusion and chaos - twinc
 
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