Addressing KJV Errors

Guestman · Oct 12, 2017

The King James Bible in archaic English served its purpose of allowing people to have a copy and read God's word some 400 years ago and for a while afterward, being able to discern a small portion of what it really says. But just as with any language, English continues to change, and so for the Bible to be properly understood requires keeping up to date with the changing of a language with modern translations.

For example the word "let" (or letteth) at 2 Thessalonians 2:7 in which the King James Bible says: "For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let (modern meaning of "permit, allow something to happen"[Microsoft Encarta Dictionary], but the Greek katechon is used here, meaning "to restrain, hinder",Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament) until he be taken out of the way" (KJV), instead of: "True, the mystery of this lawlessness is already at work, but only until the one who is right now acting as a restraint is out of the way. "(New World Translation)

Thus, the King James Bible uses a word that gives the opposite modern meaning of the Greek katechon, causing considerable confusion and misunderstanding, though at the time in the 17th century, it was appropriate.("let" is from 12th century Old English "lettan" that meant "to hinder or obstruct")

Another instance is at Acts 7:45, whereby it says "Jesus" (KJV) instead of Joshua.(New World Translation) This again confuses its readers as to whom Stephen is speaking about unless an accurate Bible is examined as a basis for careful study. Who wants to become lost ? The Bible is the most challenging book on earth to "unveil" and accuracy is thus critical to unlock its "sacred secrets" or mysteries.(Matt 13:11)

Or Exodus 34:10, which says according to the King James Bible: "And he (God) said, Behold, I make a covenant: before all thy people I will do marvels, such as have not been done in all the earth, nor in any nation: and all the people among which thou art shall see the work of the Lord: for it is a terrible thing (Hebrew yare', meaning "to fear, morally, to revere") that I will do with thee" (KJV) instead of: "In turn he said: “Here I am concluding a covenant: Before all your people I shall do wonderful things that have never been created in all the earth or among all the nations; and all the people in the midst of whom you are will indeed see the work of Jehovah, because it is an awe-inspiring thing (Heb. yare', meaning "to fear, morally, to revere") that I am doing with you."(New World Translation)

If a person were following a map and the map gave you the opposite direction to go, could a person successfully navigate to where they wanted to go using this map, not realizing that they are going in the wrong direction ? Hence, the vital need for an accurate, up-to-date map.

This necessitates even more so for an accurate Bible, for our lives depend upon accurately knowing what the Bible really teaches.

Stranger · Oct 12, 2017

Guestman said:
The King James Bible in archaic English served its purpose of allowing people to have a copy and read God's word some 400 years ago and for a while afterward, being able to discern a small portion of what it really says. But just as with any language, English continues to change, and so for the Bible to be properly understood requires keeping up to date with the changing of a language with modern translations.

For example the word "let" (or letteth) at 2 Thessalonians 2:7 in which the King James Bible says: "For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let (modern meaning of "permit, allow something to happen"[Microsoft Encarta Dictionary], but the Greek katechon is used here, meaning "to restrain, hinder",Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament) until he be taken out of the way" (KJV), instead of: "True, the mystery of this lawlessness is already at work, but only until the one who is right now acting as a restraint is out of the way. "(New World Translation)

Thus, the King James Bible uses a word that gives the opposite modern meaning of the Greek katechon, causing considerable confusion and misunderstanding, though at the time in the 17th century, it was appropriate.("let" is from 12th century Old English "lettan" that meant "to hinder or obstruct")

Another instance is at Acts 7:45, whereby it says "Jesus" (KJV) instead of Joshua.(New World Translation) This again confuses its readers as to whom Stephen is speaking about unless an accurate Bible is examined as a basis for careful study. Who wants to become lost ? The Bible is the most challenging book on earth to "unveil" and accuracy is thus critical to unlock its "sacred secrets" or mysteries.(Matt 13:11)

Or Exodus 34:10, which says according to the King James Bible: "And he (God) said, Behold, I make a covenant: before all thy people I will do marvels, such as have not been done in all the earth, nor in any nation: and all the people among which thou art shall see the work of the Lord: for it is a terrible thing (Hebrew yare', meaning "to fear, morally, to revere") that I will do with thee" (KJV) instead of: "In turn he said: “Here I am concluding a covenant: Before all your people I shall do wonderful things that have never been created in all the earth or among all the nations; and all the people in the midst of whom you are will indeed see the work of Jehovah, because it is an awe-inspiring thing (Heb. yare', meaning "to fear, morally, to revere") that I am doing with you."(New World Translation)

If a person were following a map and the map gave you the opposite direction to go, could a person successfully navigate to where they wanted to go using this map, not realizing that they are going in the wrong direction ? Hence, the vital need for an accurate, up-to-date map.

This necessitates even more so for an accurate Bible, for our lives depend upon accurately knowing what the Bible really teaches.

And what is your accurate up to date map?

Stranger

pia · Oct 12, 2017

@Guestman .....This necessitates even more so for an accurate Bible, for our lives depend upon accurately knowing what the Bible really teaches........
We are told our lives are IN Christ, hidden in Him...Our lives depend solely on Him and personally I think it more important to accurately get to know what He is saying to us, today....

amadeus · Oct 13, 2017

@Guestman
I checked several other translations to make sure they agreed with the following. They really do. [I don't own a New World Translation.]

"Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled." Matt 5:6 [KJV]

But the point is that when someone is really and thirsty for righteousness, God will fill them no matter which version they read or... even if they have never read any Bible at all. [I won't get into why a person would not have.]

There is also this one. [This one has more variation in the versions I checked, but the message to me remains essentially the same.

"But seek ye first his kingdom, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matt 6:33

Some one who really sincerely seeks first things first as God sees will receive anything else he needs.

Some translations where men have twisted the words to fit some agenda of their own may cause problems, but for the man whose heart is right in the eyes of God in what he is seeking will receive all that God has for him at the time.

I would put much less emphasis on the errors or misunderstandings and more on the hearts of men. That is where God is looking.

Helen · Oct 13, 2017

Years ago I compared....it was the verses about the blood of Jesus that I checked on.
I still stick to the AKJV ....after all these years, I find that when I TRY to read other translations my mind automatically flips it back to the KingJames version...I can quote King James...it is ingrained...but I cannot quote other versions.
Not that I want to.

Richard_oti · Oct 15, 2017

"ByGrace" said:
Years ago I compared....it was the verses about the blood of Jesus that I checked on.
I still stick to the AKJV ....after all these years, I find that when I TRY to read other translations my mind automatically flips it back to the KingJames version...I can quote King James...it is ingrained...but I cannot quote other versions.
Not that I want to.

I have read so many different "flavours" (translations) over the years, that I remember various verses in different "flavours", which can render a concordance useless unless I happen to be using one in the "flavour" that I remember the verse in.

Guestman · Oct 24, 2017

Stranger said:
And what is your accurate up to date map?

Stranger

I use the New World Translation, published by Jehovah's Witnesses, for it has proven to be accurate. For example, the King James Bible inserts interpolations or unauthorized added words to a text (that expresses a falsehood) such as John 5:3, 4 that reads: "waiting for the moving of the water. For an angel went down at a certain season into the pool, and troubled the water: whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made whole whatsoever disease he had".

These words are not found in the oldest Greek manuscripts such as the Codex Vaticanus or Codex Sinaiticus of the 4th century C.E. and are thus not in the New World Translation. The account at John 5 establishes that only Jesus performed a miracle concerning a man who had been sick for 38 years and no angel was ever involved.

Or 1 Chronicles 20:3, which reads according to the King James Bible: "And he (David) brought out people that were in it (city of Rabbah), and cut them with saws, and with harrows of iron, and with axes. Even so dealt David with all the cities of the children of Ammon", instead of accurately: "And he (David) brought out the people who were in it (city of Rabbah) and put them to work at sawing stones and at working with sharp iron instruments and with axes. That was what David did to all the cities of the Ammonites".(New World Translation) What a contrast in what accurately happened !

The New International Version concurs with the New World Translation, reading as: "and brought out the people who were there, consigning them to labor with saws and with iron picks and axes. David did this to all the Ammonite towns".

Or Psalms 47:2, which reads according to the King James Bible: "For the Lord most high is terrible (Hebrew yare', meaning "to fear; morally, to revere; caus. to frighten"); he is a great King over all the earth", instead of: "For Jehovah the Most High is awe-inspiring; He is the great King over all the earth".(New World Translation)

What if your bank accidentally moved by one decimal point to the left funds in the bank, reading $200.00 instead of $2000.00, would that make a difference ? Or say $2000.00 instead of $20000.00 ? The difference becomes really apparent when it personally affects us.

Then there is the archaic English language of the King James Bible. How many go around saying "How are thee ?" instead of "How are you ?" or "From whence comest thou ?" (Job 2:2, KJV) instead of "Where have you come from ?" (New World Translation)

Or 1 Timothy 3:1, that reads according to the King James Bible: "This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work", instead of accurately reading: "This statement is trustworthy: If a man is reaching out to be an overseer, he is desirous of a fine work".(New World Translation)

There is no "office of a bishop", as if this an elevated position or title over others, in which the religious leaders of Christendom use such titles as Reverend, Pope, Holy Father, Monsignor (meaning "my lord"), etc. that violates Jesus words at Matthew 23:8-10.

But there is the responsibility of an "overseer" (Greek episkopos, from which is taken the English word bishop), who is to "shepherd the congregation of God".(Acts 20:28), who oversees it with humility, ' considering others as superior '.(Phil 2:2)

bbyrd009 · Oct 24, 2017

Guestman said:
Or 1 Timothy 3:1, that reads according to the King James Bible: "This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work", instead of accurately reading: "This statement is trustworthy: If a man is reaching out to be an overseer, he is desirous of a fine work".

funny how we can observe that many might seek this office not desiring to do any fine work, necessarily, too though, huh? Iow the "desirous" part is maybe not being fully understood, something like that. Someone seeking power is maybe kind of being mentioned, obliquely.

ScottA · Oct 24, 2017

Guestman said:
What if your bank accidentally moved by one decimal point to the left funds in the bank, reading $200.00 instead of $2000.00, would that make a difference ? Or say $2000.00 instead of $20000.00 ? The difference becomes really apparent when it personally affects us.

There are no "accidents" in God's providence over His word. Certainly none that wordsmithery or lawyering can fix for a greater understanding. Woe. Do you not know that all language has been confounded by God Himself?

Stranger · Oct 24, 2017

Guestman said:
I use the New World Translation, published by Jehovah's Witnesses, for it has proven to be accurate. For example, the King James Bible inserts interpolations or unauthorized added words to a text (that expresses a falsehood) such as John 5:3, 4 that reads: "waiting for the moving of the water. For an angel went down at a certain season into the pool, and troubled the water: whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made whole whatsoever disease he had".

These words are not found in the oldest Greek manuscripts such as the Codex Vaticanus or Codex Sinaiticus of the 4th century C.E. and are thus not in the New World Translation. The account at John 5 establishes that only Jesus performed a miracle concerning a man who had been sick for 38 years and no angel was ever involved.

Or 1 Chronicles 20:3, which reads according to the King James Bible: "And he (David) brought out people that were in it (city of Rabbah), and cut them with saws, and with harrows of iron, and with axes. Even so dealt David with all the cities of the children of Ammon", instead of accurately: "And he (David) brought out the people who were in it (city of Rabbah) and put them to work at sawing stones and at working with sharp iron instruments and with axes. That was what David did to all the cities of the Ammonites".(New World Translation) What a contrast in what accurately happened !

The New International Version concurs with the New World Translation, reading as: "and brought out the people who were there, consigning them to labor with saws and with iron picks and axes. David did this to all the Ammonite towns".

Or Psalms 47:2, which reads according to the King James Bible: "For the Lord most high is terrible (Hebrew yare', meaning "to fear; morally, to revere; caus. to frighten"); he is a great King over all the earth", instead of: "For Jehovah the Most High is awe-inspiring; He is the great King over all the earth".(New World Translation)

What if your bank accidentally moved by one decimal point to the left funds in the bank, reading $200.00 instead of $2000.00, would that make a difference ? Or say $2000.00 instead of $20000.00 ? The difference becomes really apparent when it personally affects us.

Then there is the archaic English language of the King James Bible. How many go around saying "How are thee ?" instead of "How are you ?" or "From whence comest thou ?" (Job 2:2, KJV) instead of "Where have you come from ?" (New World Translation)

Or 1 Timothy 3:1, that reads according to the King James Bible: "This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work", instead of accurately reading: "This statement is trustworthy: If a man is reaching out to be an overseer, he is desirous of a fine work".(New World Translation)

There is no "office of a bishop", as if this an elevated position or title over others, in which the religious leaders of Christendom use such titles as Reverend, Pope, Holy Father, Monsignor (meaning "my lord"), etc. that violates Jesus words at Matthew 23:8-10.

But there is the responsibility of an "overseer" (Greek episkopos, from which is taken the English word bishop), who is to "shepherd the congregation of God".(Acts 20:28), who oversees it with humility, ' considering others as superior '.(Phil 2:2)

And what do the oldest Greek manuscripts have to say about (John 1:1)?

Stranger

Helen · Oct 24, 2017

I don't really care about who like which...I believe the AKJV is the most anointing translation.
God 'speaks' through the AKJV I can read others...but it is just a 'read'...God speaks KJV

amadeus · Oct 24, 2017

"ByGrace" said:
I don't really care about who like which...I believe the AKJV is the most anointing translation.
God 'speaks' through the AKJV I can read others...but it is just a 'read'...God speaks KJV

I am with you on which version to read, but I'll present no more arguments here on it other than without that version I would often be reading in a language I would have trouble understanding.

Richard_oti · Oct 24, 2017

Guestman said:
<snip>
... not in the New World Translation. The account at John 5 establishes that only Jesus performed a miracle concerning a man who had been sick for 38 years and no angel was ever involved.

So why were they waiting there?

Joh 5:7 The sick man answered him, Sir, I have no man, when the water is troubled, to put me into the pool:

He was still clearly waiting for the water to be "troubled".

In your opinion, by what manner was the water "troubled"?

All translations are like "flavours". It just depends upon what "flavour" seems to suit your palate. All translations contain the inflected beliefs of the translators, no matter how honest or how much they attempt to be unbiased.

Years ago, I read your "flavour". Like all flavours, it has some good and some that is not as good. But that is inherent in ALL translations. Are some "better" than others? Indubitably! However as to which ones, that would depend upon who you ask and their core beliefs / doctrines with regard to which "flavour" they think is the best.

Just as you, think the NWT is the best, as it best reflects your core beliefs / doctrines, thus the "flavour" is "just right". So also will others find the "flavour" of various translations just right to them, for the inflected beliefs / doctrines of the translators are in the "flavour" thereof.

I thought to do a translation, I was even invited to be a part of a translational team years ago. I declined the invitation for the reasons I laid out above. And even attempting to be totally honest and unbiased, I saw within my own translation, my own beliefs inflected therein, so I scraped the project.

We have more than enough "flavours", no need to add more. Those who truly seek, will find the truth regardless of the "flavour", and they shall likely consult multiple flavours at the very least.

tabletalk · Oct 25, 2017

Jun2u said:
For what it’s worth, the story of the Tower of Babel did happen historically. The result can be seen even today as we see the different languages spoken all over the world.

I am not disputing that God did not confuse the language of that day rather the question that needs to be answered is, “Why did God confuse the language into many different languages and what was His reason?” As I’ve already alluded to that the answer cannot be found by reading the passage literally but spiritually (1 Co 2:14).

There is an ominous principle hidden in the story of the Tower of Babel...which is salvation. I am not telling you what to believe. In fact, it was you who brought up the story of the Tower of Babel The character of a true believer is to be able to teach and also be able to be taught.

You have not so much as asked what is the significance of understanding spiritually the meaning of the story Tower of Babel (Ge 11:3-9). So I must assume you don’t have a clue.

To God Be The Glory

You said: "The character of a true believer is to be able to teach and also be able to be taught."
Really? There is no difference between a believer, and a true believer.
And, I doubt if every believer is "able to teach".

Jun2u · Oct 25, 2017

tabletalk said:
You said: "The character of a true believer is to be able to teach and also be able to be taught."
Really? There is no difference between a believer, and a true believer.
And, I doubt if every believer is "able to teach".

I believe there is a big difference between a believer and a true believer. In this sense, there are those who claim to be a believer and is actually not, and there are believers who actually have been saved by God.

Salvation is God's program and only He can save, not by works of man, it s a gift.

When we witness and bring the Gospel to an unsaved person, indeed, we are teaching!

To God Be The Glory

bbyrd009 · Oct 25, 2017

the real teaching likely comes when you preach one thing and then do another...but a point is that you cannot help teaching, to those who are able to learn at least, whether you consider yourself saved or not, and whether your works are good or evil, none of that even matters. Now there might be no one learning, but that does not mean that the teaching was not there to see.

tabletalk · Oct 25, 2017

Jun2u said:
I believe there is a big difference between a believer and a true believer. In this sense, there are those who claim to be a believer and is actually not, and there are believers who actually have been saved by God.

Salvation is God's program and only He can save, not by works of man, it s a gift.

When we witness and bring the Gospel to an unsaved person, indeed, we are teaching!

To God Be The Glory

So, do you know for certain who is a believer and who is only claiming it? I agree that many claim it and some are not, but it seemed like you were saying the mark of a true believer would be that they teach.
I thought that teaching the truths of God was a special gift for some believers, not all.

bbyrd009 · Oct 25, 2017

tabletalk said:
I thought that teaching the truths of God was a special gift for some believers, not all.

funny how "satan" fits in that description perfectly well in a sense at least, huh

imo some distinction might be made between those who seek positions of authority v those who find themselves in a shepherding situation

Jun2u · Oct 25, 2017

tabletalk said:
So, do you know for certain who is a believer and who is only claiming it? I agree that many claim it and some are not, but it seemed like you were saying the mark of a true believer would be that they teach.
I thought that teaching the truths of God was a special gift for some believers, not all.

I never said the mark of a true believer is to teach. What I did say was when a true believer witnesses to unsaved people he is actually teaching, or declaring, or prophesying the word of God. If I neglected to say it this way, it is what I meant.

If you read Joel 2:28-29, and Acts 2:17-18 you'll probably understand what I'm trying to convey.

To God Be The Glory

bbyrd009 · Oct 25, 2017

Jun2u said:
What I did say was when a true believer witnesses to unsaved people he is actually teaching, or declaring, or prophesying the word of God.

proselytizing is a sin, imo

Addressing KJV Errors

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