What part of 'you know not' do you not understand?

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Job

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Sadly, many fallible English translations contain interpretational errors within them, covered by the understanding of "it is the Tradition."

If I started to show you the required corrections necessary to come to a right understanding of the original texts, many of you would still not accept what I would post.

If I remember the icon of a poor fellow bashing his head against a brick wall. All that you get is a headache and a lot of disgruntled members. Since many members have already demonstrated that they are unwilling to change, why should I try.


So all you're able to contribute is "I'm right and you're wrong and no, I won't point out where, you'll just have to take my word for it".


It's good to know that arrogance is still alive and well in the hearts of the ignorant.
 

Dcopymope

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Christ comes as a thief, in an hour and a day in which we think not. It is better to live the Christian life in daily expectancy that Christ may return for his church today!

But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. - Matthew 24:36

Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. - Matthew 24:42

But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.- Mark 13:32

And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through. - Luke 12:39

Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. - Revelation 3:3

Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. - Revelation 16:15

Will Christs second coming be as a thief in the night for his bride who are the children of light or do these verses pertain to the world that are of the night and in darkness?

(1 Thessalonians 5:1-8) "But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. {2} For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. {3} For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. {4} But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. {5} Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. {6} Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober. {7} For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. {8} But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation."

I often see the saying "he comes as a thief in the night" being quoted out of context, and this is no different. The fact is, the time or the season of his second coming wasn't actually revealed to us until the writing's of Revelation. With Revelation, there is no real mystery as to what happens and the time and seasons for us to know when it happens. Comparing scripture with scripture, we know that the last trumpet blows not long after the beast sits in the temple and declares himself god. In Revelation 11 it speaks of the temple that is built for "the beast that ascends out of the pit", followed shortly thereafter the seventh angel blowing the last trumpet. This is exactly how Jesus described the chronological events, and its all spelled out for you in Revelation.

You all know what happens from there on in, so its not like you won't have a clue as to when Jesus returns. His arrival won't be far behind the beast declaring himself god in the temple and the killing of the two witnesses. That chapter alone disproves the pre-tribulation rapture or pre-tribulation second coming. The saints are still present, and there is no description of any saint being caught up in the heavens to meet the Lord until revelation 14 with the 144,000 Jews and in chapter 15 with the saints "who had victory over the beast, his mark and the number of his name", which is just before the seven vials judgement. What the second coming really is according to scripture is a pre-wrath second coming. We may not know the exact hour of when it happens, but it won't be hard for us to know the time and the season for when it happens.



 
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bbyrd009

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The fact is, the time or the season of his second coming wasn't actually revealed to us until the writing's of Revelation.
so you say, but i'm pretty sure i could quote otherwise wadr

Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you,
etc
This is exactly how Jesus described the chronological events, and its all spelled out for you in Revelation.
yes, unfortunately they are generally interpreted as corporate rather than personal events
 

bbyrd009

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2For you yourselves know very well that the Day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night.

4But you, brothers, are not in the dark, for this day to overtake you like a thief.

ha, love it!
 

Dcopymope

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so you say, but i'm pretty sure i could quote otherwise wadr

Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you,
etc
yes, unfortunately they are generally interpreted as corporate rather than personal events

What do you mean by "corporate"? o_O


after it happens, you will never forget the moment for the rest of your life though, trust me on that

I'm sure there are lots of events in the end times that I won't forget, you know, like the beast coming on the scene with absolute ferocity with a two hundred million strong army of "locusts" to literally set the world on fire, among other things. People believe his arrival will be a quiet one but that is not at all how its decribed. His arrival is about as grandiose as the day of the lord itself. I'm sure I won't just forget that, that is at least until the establishment of the new Jerusalem, new heaven and earth, at which point "the former world will pass away and will not come to mind", as plainly stated. :)
 

bbyrd009

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What do you mean by "corporate"?
ya, bad choice of words there i guess, i meant that the language of Rev and supporting vv such as Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed are often or usually interpreted as mass or "corporate" events, even though the example i quoted here also provides plenty of clues to the contrary
 

bbyrd009

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to literally set the world on fire, among other things.
Scripture is a spiritual Book, and you might be disappointed in this "literally" concept. Or, since that never works, lemme just suggest that you keep an open mind there, as your perceptions will likely change at some point.
 

amadeus

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If I remember the icon of a poor fellow bashing his head against a brick wall. All that you get is a headache and a lot of disgruntled members. Since many members have already demonstrated that they are unwilling to change, why should I try.

How many times were prophets in the OT sent out by God and they already knew that most or even all of the people he would talk to would not receive the message and change as they should? Sometimes we simply have to do it because it is what God requires of us.
 

Dcopymope

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ya, bad choice of words there i guess, i meant that the language of Rev and supporting vv such as Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed are often or usually interpreted as mass or "corporate" events, even though the example i quoted here also provides plenty of clues to the contrary

What example?
 

bbyrd009

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What example?
well, the language there, for instance; "not all will sleep," yet "all will be changed." How can both even be true? Also, the "all will be changed" is not understood in the same way--individually, that is, happening to each in their time iow--as the corporate (popular) concept of the "all will be changed" part, see? The one is understood to be an occurrence in an individual life, whereas the other is somehow relegated to a different understanding. And Scripture even encourages this, i guess, while not actually ever verifying it anywhere.

Iow there is no reason to not understand that You can meet Him in the air today, despite the language Paul uses that can be read otherwise, should one choose to do so.
 
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Dcopymope

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well, the language there, for instance; "not all will sleep," yet "all will be changed." How can both even be true? Also, the "all will be changed" is not understood in the same way--individually, that is, happening to each in their time iow--as the corporate (popular) concept of the "all will be changed" part, see? The one is understood to be an occurrence in an individual life, whereas the other is somehow relegated to a different understanding. And Scripture even encourages this, i guess, while not actually ever verifying it anywhere.

Iow there is no reason to not understand that You can meet Him in the air today, despite the language Paul uses that can be read otherwise, should one choose to do so.

Paul is simply referring to the order in which the Resurrection will occur on the day of the Lord.

(1 Thessalonians 4:14-18) "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. {15} For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. {16} For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: {17} Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. {18} Wherefore comfort one another with these words."

In other words, on the day of the Lord, we shall not all sleep, or be in the grave, as there will be many who will still be alive and kicking on that day. But we will all none the less be changed into the glorified body, the dead first, or the sleep, and then those who are alive. Its referring to one mass event, not "an occurrence in your own personal life".
 

ScottA

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Christ comes as a thief, in an hour and a day in which we think not. It is better to live the Christian life in daily expectancy that Christ may return for his church today!

But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. - Matthew 24:36

Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. - Matthew 24:42

But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.- Mark 13:32

And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through. - Luke 12:39

Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. - Revelation 3:3

Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. - Revelation 16:15
In this life, what [other] time is there that we know not?

Answer this, and you will know when the Lord comes.
 

bbyrd009

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Paul is simply referring to the order in which the Resurrection will occur on the day of the Lord.



In other words, on the day of the Lord, we shall not all sleep, or be in the grave, as there will be many who will still be alive and kicking on that day. But we will all none the less be changed into the glorified body, the dead first, or the sleep, and then those who are alive. Its referring to one mass event, not "an occurrence in your own personal life".
so you say, and i say 'fine,' with the understanding that your interpretation says more about you than it does about Scripture. You make assumptions to get there iow, based upon premises, and there is nothing wrong with any of that, except that even our premises are subject to change, and you are posting as if you know, when you must admit that you do not.

I'm pretty sure now that a corporate event is not in view there, but neither can i disprove it, nor would i be interested in trying. It is just a perspective that i now have available to me, that i did not have before, and my premises about "tomorrow" have similarly undergone a change. I don't know either, and i am not trying to guess, but i cannot help but be persuaded that the Herd Guess is suspect simply by association.

So you state that the Bible is saying such-and-such, and my reply is "We'll see."
 

VictoryinJesus

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And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through. - Luke 12:39

In Luke 19: 44 Jesus said: And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.

They were supposed to be watching. But the house of God was broken into by thieves (Luke 19: 46) "Saying unto them, It is written, My house is the house of prayer: but ye have made it a den of thieves."

The LORD said it would happen:
Zechariah 5:1-4
[1] Then I turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a flying roll. [2] And he said unto me, What seest thou? And I answered, I see a flying roll; the length thereof is twenty cubits, and the breadth thereof ten cubits. [3] Then said he unto me, This is the curse that goeth forth over the face of the whole earth: for every one that stealeth shall be cut off as on this side according to it; and every one that sweareth shall be cut off as on that side according to it. [4] I will bring it forth, saith the Lord of hosts, and it shall enter into the house of the thief, and into the house of him that sweareth falsely by my name: and it shall remain in the midst of his house, and shall consume it with the timber thereof and the stones thereof.

The curse enters into the house of the thief, and into the house of him that sweareth falsely by His name.
Jeremiah 2:26-27
26] As the thief is ashamed when he is found, so is the house of Israel ashamed; they, their kings, their princes, and their priests, and their prophets, [27] Saying to a stock, Thou art my father; and to a stone, Thou hast brought me forth: for they have turned their back unto me, and not their face: but in the time of their trouble they will say, Arise, and save us.

Hosea 7:1-4
[1] When I would have healed Israel, then the iniquity of Ephraim was discovered, and the wickedness of Samaria: for they commit falsehood; and the thief cometh in, and the troop of robbers spoileth without. [2] And they consider not in their hearts that I remember all their wickedness: now their own doings have beset them about; they are before my face. [3] They make the king glad with their wickedness, and the princes with their lies. [4] They are all adulterers, as an oven heated by the baker, who ceaseth from raising after he hath kneaded the dough, until it be leavened.

To Spoil a strong man’s house: first you have to bind that strong man. Matthew 12:28-29
[28] But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you. [29] Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

Jesus came to bind the strong man of the house and spoil his goods. The Kingdom of God had come upon them, and the work of light is stronger than the work of darkness. That is what Jesus did; tell John the Baptist: "the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, and the dead are raised, to the poor the gospel is preached." Jesus spoiled the enemies house. Jesus rescued His from the pit.

In Luke 12:49-50 Jesus said:
[49] I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? [50] But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!

Exodus 22:6
[6] If fire break out, and catch in thorns, so that the stacks of corn, or the standing corn, or the field, be consumed therewith ; he that kindled the fire shall surely make restitution.

The Passover. Blood marks the post and lintels.

Mark 14:13-15
[13] And he sendeth forth two of his disciples, and saith unto them, Go ye into the city, and there shall meet you a man bearing a pitcher of water: follow him. [14] And wheresoever he shall go in, say ye to the goodman of the house, The Master saith, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples? [15] And he will shew you a large upper room furnished and prepared: there make ready for us.

When the Jews come to get Jesus. They come against Him as a thief. Do you know how often the scripture says the Pharisees watched Jesus closely to see what he would do? They watched Jesus as if he had come as a thief to spoil their goods.
Matthew 26:54-56
[54] But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be? [55] In that same hour said Jesus to the multitudes, Are ye come out as against a thief with swords and staves for to take me? I sat daily with you teaching in the temple, and ye laid no hold on me. [56] But all this was done, that the scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled. Then all the disciples forsook him, and fled.

They searched the scriptures daily But life (the goodman of the house had returned but they knew him not) stood in their midst. They took Jesus as a thief instead. They took him as a curse.

(Deuteronomy 21:23) His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God that thy land be not defiled, which the Lord thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.

Jesus became a thief on the cross. For you. For me. He broke into Satan's house and He bound him. "it is finished" The spiritual church has been loosed from her debt. Those found in Christ, born of God, Spirit are no longer condemned.

Matthew 16:17-19
[17] And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. [18] And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. [19] And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Christ will return. But the thief will NOT overtake those that in Christ Jesus. IT is finished for the Spiritul church, the body of Christ.

1 Thessalonians 5:1-11
[1] But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. [2] For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. [3] For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. [4] But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. [5] Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. [6] Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober. [7] For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. [8] But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. [9] For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, [10] Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. [11] Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

The fields are white already for harvest:

Matthew 13:27-30 KJV
[27] So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? [28] He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? [29] But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. [30] Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Revelation 16:15-17
[15] Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments(in Christ), lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. [16] And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon. [17] And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
 
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Jay Ross

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So all you're able to contribute is "I'm right and you're wrong and no, I won't point out where, you'll just have to take my word for it".


It's good to know that arrogance is still alive and well in the hearts of the ignorant.

Job, you have just demonstrated why many knowledgeable people do not throw their pearls in front of pigs to be trampled on when responses like your become the norm. I am not being arrogant as you are suggesting, but am sure you will have a come back to support your point of view.
 

Richard_oti

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Job, you have just demonstrated why many knowledgeable people do not throw their pearls in front of pigs to be trampled on when responses like your become the norm. I am not being arrogant as you are suggesting, but am sure you will have a come back to support your point of view.

Which begs the question, how many of us truly have any "pearls"? I'll let others be the judge as to whether or not I may have any. Just as I also know, there those who claim to have "pearls", but in reality, they are merely road apples with a candy coating. I am not saying that specifically of you, it is only a generalization that has come with years upon years of observation.

Everyone has a pearl or two, some more. If we do not share our pearls, then we have hidden them, like the worthless servant. That we have each been given, is for the building up of the body. There is plenty of swine outside, and yes, some inside, but let's not make it a habit of referring or implying with regard to one another as such.

Everyone gets heated at times.

Col 4:6 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer each one.

And yes, I am guilty at times of that very thing.
 
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Job

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Job, you have just demonstrated why many knowledgeable people do not throw their pearls in front of pigs to be trampled on when responses like your become the norm. I am not being arrogant as you are suggesting, but am sure you will have a come back to support your point of view.


The quote below is yours. You say you disagree with the interpretations of the scriptures posted. If you go back and reread the start of this thread up to the point you made that comment, you'll notice that no interpretations were given.

You're either a troll trying to stir up conflict or your reading comprehension is nonexistent.



Na, I do not mind the scriptures that have been quoted, only the said interpretations of those scriptures.



Thanks for calling me a pig.
default_thumbsup.gif
Hadn't heard that one since grade school.
 

Jay Ross

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<snip>

Everyone has a pearl or two, some more. If we do not share our pearls, then we have hidden them, like the worthless servant. That we have each been given, is for the building up of the body. There is plenty of swine outside, and yes, some inside, but let's not make it a habit of referring or implying with regard to one another as such.

<snip>

Is this a reference to the parables of the Minas and the Talents? if so, then the so called worthless servants is a Good Guy in the two parables, because he stood up to Satan and told him that the harvest was not his to have.
 
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