The Law of Moses Has Not Been Abolished

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Dcopymope

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I dont know which god you worship, it aint the christian one...

Do you remember Adam or eve wearing anything in the garden of Eden

No

, do you recall God demanding Eve cover herself when she is in His presence or even after he removed them,?? No they clothed themselves because they where embarrassed, that is just mans pride and arrogance no more no less. Nothing to do with God

Well, it was actually God himself that clothed them with coats.....but whatever, if this isn't a salvation issue, then its not an issue at all to me. I don't think a woman not covering her head will be a deciding factor in her name being in the book of life on judgement day.

(Genesis 3:20-21) "And Adam called his wife’s name Eve; because she was the mother of all living. {21} Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them."
 

Richard_oti

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I don't think a woman not covering her head will be a deciding factor in her name being in the book of life on judgement day.

1Co 11:15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.
 

Dcopymope

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1Co 11:15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.

So? Does scripture ever state that the final judgement will be about your hairdo, or will it be about your works, your thoughts and every word spoken? You can't be serious right? It makes God seem quite petty.
 

christiang

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I dont know which god you worship, it aint the christian one...

Do you remember Adam or eve wearing anything in the garden of Eden, do you recall God demanding Eve cover herself when she is in His presence or even after he removed them,?? No they clothed themselves because they where embarrassed, that is just mans pride and arrogance no more no less. Nothing to do with God

Clearly you have not read the Law when God told Eve after they had sinned,

Your husband shall rule over you

Eve was submitted to her husband, which is why wives must submit to husbands. The sign that a woman has come under submission to a husband is the veil. I have a study on this here, The Tzniut, Wives and Head Coverings | Wisdom of God . The apostle Paul mandates it.
 

christiang

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Christ, the husband, died to release Israel, his wife, from the curse of the law, and from the covenant which Israel brake:

"Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man. Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God." -- Rom 7:1-4 KJV

"And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament (new covenant), which is shed for many." -- Mar 14:24 KJV

"Christ hath redeemed us [Israel] from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:" -- Gal 3:13 KJV

That was foretold in Jeremiah:

"Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:" -- Jer 31:31-32 KJV

Rev

You only die to the Law when you die to sin, because once you are freed from sin, you can no longer break the Law, for it is impossible for anyone that has been freed from sin to ever sin again. But while you are still sinning, you are still under the Law.
 

mjrhealth

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Clearly you have not read the Law when God told Eve after they had sinned,

Your husband shall rule over you
Clearly you have not understood that the law was teh old covenant given to the Isralites as a covenant with God, neither do you have any comprehension of what Christ did at teh cross, or that there are no male or female in the Spirit, or that, God is no respecter of persons, or that those who choose the law are condemned by teh law and for them there is no grace, and for them Christ died in vain. ANd here again another laying stumbling blocks before men.

Act_15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

It is by Love christians are supposed to Live, you can keep teh law and die in your sins, for teh law demands a penalty of death,, yours
 

mjrhealth

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No



Well, it was actually God himself that clothed them with coats.....but whatever, if this isn't a salvation issue, then its not an issue at all to me. I don't think a woman not covering her head will be a deciding factor in her name being in the book of life on judgement day.
amen
 

KBCid

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Ephesians 2:15-16 KJV
[15] Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances...

Notice this verse does not simply say the "law of commandments" but rather "the law of commandments contained in ordinances".
What are the ordinances delineated in that verse? If the intent of the spirit driven inspired verse was to be all commandments then there would be no need to specify that which is only part of them.

If you assert you are a Christian and free from all God's laws by a new covenant then is it ok to now murder others?
Can you now have sex with a person married to another without consequence?
Is it alright with God for you to do anything in thought or deed that God has previously asserted was evil?

This is a real question. If you as a believing Christian think that ALL the Commandments of God given under the OT are abolished then is it ok to perform those actions with impunity?

Would it be your position that it is simply my flesh doing it and thus ok because the mind that should be controlling the fleshly body is saved and can't itself sin?
 

KBCid

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So? Does scripture ever state that the final judgement will be about your hairdo, or will it be about your works, your thoughts and every word spoken? You can't be serious right? It makes God seem quite petty.

This is a funny one.
If the verse had no relevance to God then why would the HS inspired scripture appear in the NT? You can by your reply deny its intent but the fact remains that it is God's word given to us for a purpose.

If God says something that may seem to a man something insignificant and they do not honor it on that basis do you suppose that God will just overlook the dishonoring on the basis of the thing in question by the man or do you suppose that God would be offended because the man has questioned the direction of the potter who made him?
 

KBCid

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You only die to the Law when you die to sin, because once you are freed from sin, you can no longer break the Law, for it is impossible for anyone that has been freed from sin to ever sin again. But while you are still sinning, you are still under the Law.

I agree with much of what you are intending with this post.
I think another way to bring the understanding across would be this;
If you knowingly sin you are putting yourself under the law by your own will because the breaking of the law is what sin is. If you want to stop being under the law and its curse you repent / become sorry for having ever done the actions or the thoughts that would make one at odds with God and you turn from doing those things and commit yourself and the flesh you control to following the example given by Christ who came in the flesh to show us the way to properly exist as flesh bound spirits under Gods government.
How people who assert that they are Christian and boldly assert that they are under no penalty for continuing to sin in the flesh is beyond me when it plainly states that we by our own will are to control the flesh and to have dominion over it as it is written;

Romans 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. 14For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

It is plain and it is clearly defined that we by our own will are to control / have dominion over our spirit and flesh and stop sinning. No where in those verses does it say that God will do it for us. We are to exercise our will to have dominion over the lusts of the flesh and be in accord with God's will.
 

Rev20

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If you assert you are a Christian and free from all God's laws by a new covenant then is it ok to now murder others?

The new covenant is based on love for others. Do you recall the prophet saying God would write his laws in the hearts of the children of Israel and Judah?

"This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more." -- Heb 10:16-17 KJV

This is the law:

"If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well" -- Jas 2:9 KJV

"Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law." -- Rom 13:10 KJV

"For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." -- Gal 5:14 KJV

"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets." -- Mat 7:12 KJV


Rev
 

bbyrd009

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so imo "cover woman's head" gets the same treatment that "speaking in tongues" does, and becomes an unintelligible ritual that makes no sense, when it could easily be in line with the other vv about "women," women "being silent in church" etc, "woman" here having a spiritual symbology, and "covering her head" having an obvious symbology of its own. And SiT seems no less obvious to me, just gaining the ability to "speak someone's language," i mean we even have an idiom for it lol.
 

christiang

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I agree with much of what you are intending with this post.
I think another way to bring the understanding across would be this;
If you knowingly sin you are putting yourself under the law by your own will because the breaking of the law is what sin is. If you want to stop being under the law and its curse you repent / become sorry for having ever done the actions or the thoughts that would make one at odds with God and you turn from doing those things and commit yourself and the flesh you control to following the example given by Christ who came in the flesh to show us the way to properly exist as flesh bound spirits under Gods government.
How people who assert that they are Christian and boldly assert that they are under no penalty for continuing to sin in the flesh is beyond me when it plainly states that we by our own will are to control the flesh and to have dominion over it as it is written;

Romans 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. 14For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

It is plain and it is clearly defined that we by our own will are to control / have dominion over our spirit and flesh and stop sinning. No where in those verses does it say that God will do it for us. We are to exercise our will to have dominion over the lusts of the flesh and be in accord with God's will.

No, its not just being "sorry", you must stop breaking the Law on your own accord, after you receive knowledge and understanding of the Law, which will tell you what you must stop doing. Then, after you have become obedient, is the baptism of the holy spirit. It is at the baptism of the holy spirit that you then become freed from your sinful nature. You MUST attain the baptism of the holy spirit, or you will not inherit the kingdom of God, even if you stopped breaking the Law. Read this,

Repentance and Sin No More, Perfection and Born of the Spirit | Wisdom of God
 

christiang

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Clearly you have not understood that the law was teh old covenant given to the Isralites as a covenant with God, neither do you have any comprehension of what Christ did at teh cross, or that there are no male or female in the Spirit, or that, God is no respecter of persons, or that those who choose the law are condemned by teh law and for them there is no grace, and for them Christ died in vain. ANd here again another laying stumbling blocks before men.

Act_15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

It is by Love christians are supposed to Live, you can keep teh law and die in your sins, for teh law demands a penalty of death,, yours

While there is no distinction between unmarried men and women, there is without a doubt a distinction between wife and husband. Wives Cannot Speak in the Assemblies, Unmarried Women Can | Wisdom of God
 

VictoryinJesus

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so imo "cover woman's head" gets the same treatment that "speaking in tongues" does, and becomes an unintelligible ritual that makes no sense, when it could easily be in line with the other vv about "women," women "being silent in church" etc, "woman" here having a spiritual symbology, and "covering her head" having an obvious symbology of its own. And SiT seems no less obvious to me, just gaining the ability to "speak someone's language," i mean we even have an idiom for it lol.

All a beautiful picture of Christ:

Genesis 24:65-67 KJV
[65] For she had said unto the servant, What man is this that walketh in the field to meet us? And the servant had said, It is my master: therefore she took a vail, and covered herself. [66] And the servant told Isaac all things that he had done. [67] And Isaac(the son)brought her into his mother Sarah's tent, and took Rebekah, and she became his wife; and he loved her: and Isaac was comforted after his mother's death .

Genesis 38:18-19 KJV
[18] And he said, What pledge shall I give thee? And she said, Thy signet, and thy bracelets, and thy staff that is in thine hand. And he gave it her, and came in unto her, and she conceived by him. [19] And she arose, and went away, and laid by her vail from her, and put on the garments of her widowhood. (A picture of Israel)

Exodus 26:33-34 KJV
[33] And thou shalt hang up the vail under the taches, that thou mayest bring in thither within the vail the ark of the testimony: and the vail shall divide unto you between the holy place and the most holy. [34] And thou shalt put the mercy seat upon the ark of the testimony in the most holy place .

Exodus 34:33-34 KJV
[33] And till Moses had done speaking with them, he put a vail on his face. [34] But when Moses went in before the Lord to speak with him, he took the vail off, until he came out. And he came out, and spake unto the children of Israel that which he was commanded.

Prophecy of what He(Christ) would do. HIS work NOT mankinds so NO MANs boast could be in anyone except Christ and Christ crucified.
Isaiah 25:7-8 KJV
[7] And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations. [8] He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord God will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the Lord hath spoken it .


Matthew 27:50-51 KJV
[50] Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. [51] And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

The veil has been torn. Christ is the Head. Christ is the cover. Those in Christ can enter. They LOVE to quote Paul's scripture(inspired by the Holy Spirit)to continue to glory in the flesh but notice verse 16:

1 Corinthians 11:15-16 KJV
[15] But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering. [16] But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.


Romans 2:8-11 KJV
[8] But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, [9] Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; [10] But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: [11] For there is no respect of persons with God.

Proverbs 21:19 KJV
[19] It is better to dwell in the wilderness, than with a contentious and an angry woman.

What does this verse say about Christ and His "another", His body?
 
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VictoryinJesus

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Notice this verse does not simply say the "law of commandments" but rather "the law of commandments contained in ordinances".
What are the ordinances delineated in that verse? If the intent of the spirit driven inspired verse was to be all commandments then there would be no need to specify that which is only part of them.

If you assert you are a Christian and free from all God's laws by a new covenant then is it ok to now murder others?
Can you now have sex with a person married to another without consequence?
Is it alright with God for you to do anything in thought or deed that God has previously asserted was evil?

This is a real question. If you as a believing Christian think that ALL the Commandments of God given under the OT are abolished then is it ok to perform those actions with impunity?

Would it be your position that it is simply my flesh doing it and thus ok because the mind that should be controlling the fleshly body is saved and can't itself sin?

Sin no longer reigns in this mortal body. Christ reigns. Every sin of the flesh has been submitted to the saving blood of the Lamb of the LORD. I am clean. All works of flesh are made void and submitted to HIS work.

Does that mean I am free to murder, steal, lie and cheat? No. Not because I am under bondage of a performance but out of love. I am no longer a child of darkness. My eye is singular and on CHRIST. My heart...the new Spirit HE put within me...loathes those things. I now stand for truth and freedom for others. Keep fighting your battle of the flesh and that is where you will remain: under the bondage of the flesh.

HE came:

John 10:10 KJV
[10] The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Life abundantly means life with Christ. This world no longer holds any appeal. I wait on the promise of something better. My feet hit the floor every morning with new purpose. I am no longer condemned. I am no longer carrying the heavy burden of sin unto death. HE brought life to those that will submit to His blood and His work. I am not condemned under you or any other. Whom the Son sets free is free indeed.
 
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KBCid

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The new covenant is based on love for others. Do you recall the prophet saying God would write his laws in the hearts of the children of Israel and Judah Rev

I am well aware that there are laws. My post was for those who assert that there are no laws.
 

KBCid

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No, its not just being "sorry", you must stop breaking the Law on your own accord, after you receive knowledge and understanding of the Law, which will tell you what you must stop doing.

That is exactly what I said;

KBCid said :"" If you knowingly sin you are putting yourself under the law by your own will because the breaking of the law is what sin is. If you want to stop being under the law and its curse you repent / become sorry for having ever done the actions or the thoughts that would make one at odds with God and YOU TURN from doing those things""

Did you not read that before replying?
If you have no remorse for what you have done then --TURNING FROM DOING THOSE THINGS-- (not sinning by your own volition) (ceasing to sin) would not be from the heart. It would be the same thing the Israelites did.... They followed the rules from a visual perspective only but within were filthy.
 

KBCid

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Sin no longer reigns in this mortal body. Christ reigns. Every sin of the flesh has been submitted to the saving blood of the Lamb of the LORD. I am clean. All works of flesh are made void and submitted to HIS work.
Does that mean I am free to murder, steal, lie and cheat? No. Not because I am under bondage of a performance but out of love. I am no longer a child of darkness. My eye is singular and on CHRIST. My heart...the new Spirit HE put within me...loathes those things. I now stand for truth and freedom for others. Keep fighting your battle of the flesh and that is where you will remain: under the bondage of the flesh.

If sin no longer reigns in your mortal body (the flesh) then your assertion is that neither your spirit nor the fleshly body it inhabits performs any sinful acts, is this correct?
And to be clear here SIN is the breaking of the intent of actual laws of God right?
 

Rev20

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You only die to the Law when you die to sin, because once you are freed from sin, you can no longer break the Law, for it is impossible for anyone that has been freed from sin to ever sin again. But while you are still sinning, you are still under the Law.

christiang, please read my post again. Paul said (in Romans 7:1-4) that Christ (the husband) died to release Israel (the wife) from the law (the old covenant). Once Israel was released from the old covenant, they were free to remarry Christ under the new covenant.

Please provide scriptural references so I can better follow your arguments. Thanks.

Rev 20