Who was Job's accuser?

face2face said:

Job’s Appeal

31:35 “If only I had someone to hear me! Here is my signature (Heb: final word)

let the Almighty answer me! If only I had an indictment that my accuser had written.

Surely I would wear it proudly on my shoulder, I would bind it on me like a crown;

I would give him an accounting of my steps; like a prince I would approach him.

It's clear from the book and the text that Job was not informed of a supernatural evil Being though understood whoever the human adversary (satan) was he wished they would present themselves so Job could vindicate his name.

What would you expect to see in the book of Job if this evil Being existed?

F2F

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Job assumes the supernatural Being, God. "...my desire is, that the Almighty would answer me...." (Job 31:35)

Job knows nothing of what has transpired between God and satan. And, he is never told, that we are aware of.

Job knows that God has come against Him, and that God has brought these trials upon him. Thus Job believes God has counted him as an enemy. (Job 6:20) "...O thou preserver of men? why hast thou set me as a mark against thee, so that I am a burden to myself?" (Job 10:2) "I will say unto God, Do not condemn me, shew me wherefore thou contendest with me." (Job 13:3) "Surely I would speak to the Almighty, and I desire to reason with God." (Job 13:15) "...I will maintain mine own ways before him." (Job 13:24) "Wherefore hidest thou thy face, and holdest me for thine enemy?" (Job 19:11) "He hath also kindled his wrath against me, and he counteth me unto him as one of his enemies." (Job 33:10) "Behold, he findeth occasions against me, he counteth me for his enemy."

Thus in (Job 31:35) when Job says, "...my desire is, that the Almighty would answer me, and that mine adversary had written a book", he is speaking of God. God is his adversary. It is God he is contending with.

Do you own a fishing license?

Stranger

Stranger said:

Job knows that God has come against Him, and that God has brought these trials upon him

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Job BELIEVES that it is God coming against him...big difference..Too many people today still believe God to be like this, so it's no wonder it's all just one big mess within what we refer to as Christianity. If no one can even get to know that ONE thing about our Father ( His character ), how is anyone supposed to go onward?
I can barely believe some of the comments I have read on this forum, which is supposed to 'teach' the rest of us, what God is REALLY like...Pitiful !

pia said:

Job BELIEVES that it is God coming against him...big difference..Too many people today still believe God to be like this, so it's no wonder it's all just one big mess within what we refer to as Christianity. If no one can even get to know that ONE thing about our Father ( His character ), how is anyone supposed to go onward?
I can barely believe some of the comments I have read on this forum, which is supposed to 'teach' the rest of us, what God is REALLY like...Pitiful !

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(Job 1:8) "And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job...."

(Job 2:3) "And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job...he holdest fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without a cause."

(Job 2:10) "...shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil?...."


Stranger

face2face said:

Job’s Appeal

31:35 “If only I had someone to hear me! Here is my signature (Heb: final word)

let the Almighty answer me! If only I had an indictment that my accuser had written.

Surely I would wear it proudly on my shoulder, I would bind it on me like a crown;

I would give him an accounting of my steps; like a prince I would approach him.

It's clear from the book and the text that Job was not informed of a supernatural evil Being though understood whoever the human adversary (satan) was he wished they would present themselves so Job could vindicate his name.

What would you expect to see in the book of Job if this evil Being existed?

F2F

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it seems you don't understand who accused who of what:


Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?


the Lord declares Job a righteous man. and then Satan (after the posted verse) accuses the Lord of protecting Job and that is why Job is loyal to the Lord. if anyone accuses Job its his so called friends that argued continually with him that Job had to have done something to bring this on himself. and in this chapter that you have taken text out of context from, Job is responding to that, explaining what he has done in his life and shows no reason for the accusations. he's not talking to the air.

thing is, God does answer Job directly doesn't He?

pia said:

Job BELIEVES that it is God coming against him...big difference..Too many people today still believe God to be like this, so it's no wonder it's all just one big mess within what we refer to as Christianity. If no one can even get to know that ONE thing about our Father ( His character ), how is anyone supposed to go onward?
I can barely believe some of the comments I have read on this forum, which is supposed to 'teach' the rest of us, what God is REALLY like...Pitiful !

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no, Job knows via his relationship with the Almighty, that the Lord has allowed this to happen to him, and in the first chapter the text verifies that the Lord did allow this to happen to Job, and that Job was protected by the Lord before these things happened. Job is not incorrect that the Lord had allowed his children to be destroyed, his wealth to be removed and stolen and his health to put him in constant pain and discomfort. which is against the fulfillment of Job's life as Job understood it. all of that was allowed to come to pass by Job's God, and to verify, Satan had to basically ask permission to do these things to Job before he could.


its just that your image of your god, doesn't do those things, correct?

pia said:

Job BELIEVES that it is God coming against him...big difference..Too many people today still believe God to be like this, so it's no wonder it's all just one big mess within what we refer to as Christianity. If no one can even get to know that ONE thing about our Father ( His character ), how is anyone supposed to go onward?
I can barely believe some of the comments I have read on this forum, which is supposed to 'teach' the rest of us, what God is REALLY like...Pitiful !

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i think you also have a good point, you might develop it a bit more if you can. As any relevant Scripture occurs to me, i'll come post it, but this is a weird subject in a sense. Ephemeral, or whatever.

@DPMartin ....Have you noticed at all that Job himself says :" All that I FEARED has come upon me."....I won't bother with why it is not God who allows evil, and mostly people don't believe me anyway...But perhaps you could seek Him for the answers to this and any other thing, which seems to make our wonderful Father out to be a two faced monster and an indian-giver ( dunno if that's politically incorrect, I just don't know another short word for describing this)...

bbyrd009 said:

i think you also have a good point, you might develop it a bit more if you can. As any relevant Scripture occurs to me, i'll come post it, but this is a weird subject in a sense. Ephemeral, or whatever.

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Ok, thanks... I can't expand on it here, as I have tried...But think on this one thing...The way people think about God, because of what has been written about Him, do they also believe that it was God who made Eve and Adam taste of the 'forbidden fruit' ?
Sorry can you please let me know what the word 'Ephemeral' means? Thanks ( English was not my first language, so I'm a bit behind the eight ball on that )..

@Stranger ...yes I too can read....but believing that God is both good and evil is against ALL that I have been shown by Jesus, and doesn't make a lick of sense, as then God would have created mankind the same, which He didn't.
ALL that God created was GOOD !

face2face said:

Interesting admission. Surprisingly honest.
So you would also hold the belief that Job had no knowledge of a supernatural evil Being seeing it never comes into Job's mind or speech.

If so, we can work with that!

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No admission...it was a correction on your statement. You stated that Job wasn't aware of a supernatural evil being but understood his adversary to be human. Job understood nothing of the sort. He assumes the existence of God. And recognizes God as his adversary in the trials that have come upon him. A not so surprisingly dishonest statement on your part.

Concerning the events between satan and God that led to Jobs trials, we are never told that he knew anything about them. We know about them because they are written in the book of Job.

I never said Job did not believe in the existence of satan the devil. I have every reason to believe he did as he knew of the fall of Adam. (Job 31:33) Thus he would have known of the serpent, the devil who tempted Eve. Plus he alluded to the serpent, the devil, as is depicted in the zodiac of God in the heavens. (Job 26:13)

I'm sure you can 'work' with it. I've seen your 'work'. Not impressed.

Stranger

face2face said:

And...

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Pay attention.

Stranger

pia said:

@Stranger ...yes I too can read....but believing that God is both good and evil is against ALL that I have been shown by Jesus, and doesn't make a lick of sense, as then God would have created mankind the same, which He didn't.
ALL that God created was GOOD !

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Yes, you are correct that all that God created was and is good. And you are correct in your understanding of Jesus Christ.

I am not saying God is evil. He is not.

With Job, evil was behind Jobs troubles in that satan was the instrument used. But, behind satan, God initiated theses troubles for His own purpose and for Jobs good. Satan did not come against Job for good, he did it for evil. But God did it for good. (Gen. 50:20) "But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive."

You see? That which occurred upon Job, was good. A very important truth for believers to lay hold of.

Stranger

pia said:

Ok, thanks... I can't expand on it here, as I have tried

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can't think of one supporting v? hmm. wonder what that means
God chastens whom He loves, i guess

pia said:

But think on this one thing...The way people think about God, because of what has been written about Him

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and what a mouthful that is, huh

pia said:

do they also believe that it was God who made Eve and Adam taste of the 'forbidden fruit' ?

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hmm. well "made" is hotly debated there, do you have free will or not, essentially, but we gotta admit that God made Adam and Eve, i guess, and i seriously doubt that they could do anything to surprise God, so therefore a valid perspective is that God "made" A&E to Fall, sure.

Of course having children and then watching them "fall" kind of provides more perspective on the matter, yes? It strikes me that most opponents of Free Will prolly never had kids lol. A good exercise for this imo is to get a toddler of yours who understands "hurt" and "bad" but has never seen a fire, and then build a camp fire, and then see if you can keep the toddler from sticking his finger in the fire lol. Use whatever warnings or methods short of physical restraint that you think might work. Which of course they won't. Ever, i guess.

Which somewhat clarifies the opponents' of Free Wills position, i guess...hmm. Anyway, regardless of your position there, to state that the toddler had no choice is not really telling the whole story, right. I mean you even went to great lengths to explain to the kid "hurt, bad, hot, burn" all that, right. And i tell you that you could not stop that kid, even if you had a million bucks riding on it lol. The more you cautioned them would actually make things worse, make it more attractive to touch that fire, as far as the kid is concerned.

now are you just a failure as a parent, or what? Ha, not until you give them burn cream, i guess

pia said:

Sorry can you please let me know what the word 'Ephemeral' means? Thanks ( English was not my first language, so I'm a bit behind the eight ball on that )..

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ah, must be fun tryna read me lol, sorry--google could do better imo, but "gauzy, esoteric, hard to get a handle on."

face2face said:

Yes but Job not once mentions a supernatural monster who is his accuser and adversary. Job only refers to a person who he can approach to defend his integrity.

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seems to me that he actually laments the lack of such an human accuser if anything

pia said:

@DPMartin ....Have you noticed at all that Job himself says :" All that I FEARED has come upon me."....I won't bother with why it is not God who allows evil, and mostly people don't believe me anyway...But perhaps you could seek Him for the answers to this and any other thing, which seems to make our wonderful Father out to be a two faced monster and an indian-giver ( dunno if that's politically incorrect, I just don't know another short word for describing this)...

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reflect upon the range of possible feelings an adolescent might have toward a parent who is resisting them in some pursuit or other, and imo see that it is mostly about perspective imo