The Law of Moses Has Not Been Abolished

christiang · Nov 3, 2017

Richard_oti said:
So in saying that, do you also consider yourself one of the "royal priesthood"? The Kohanim had duties that were appointed by YHVH to be done upon shabat. Need I reveal those to you?

It is unlawful to harvest upon shabat. It is lawful to eat. There is a difference.

Was the man merely picking up sticks, or was he gathering wood? And for what purpose do you suppose he was gathering this wood?

That you even ask such questions is all too revealing.

Do you not know that the elect are priests on earth for the heavenly temple?

But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. (1 Peter 2:9 [ESV])

Where the gifts and sacrifices were offer are spiritual, which are works of righteousness, and even offering ourselves as living sacrifices?

you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. (1 Peter 2:5 [ESV])

I call upon you, therefore, brethren, through the compassions of God, to present your bodies a sacrifice — living, sanctified, acceptable to God — your intelligent service;
(Romans 12:1 [YLT])

And do not forget to do good and to share with others, for with such sacrifices God is pleased. (Hebrews 13:16 [NIV])

to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles. He gave me the priestly duty of proclaiming the gospel of God, so that the Gentiles might become an offering acceptable to God, sanctified by the Holy Spirit. (Romans 15:16 [NIV])

Through Jesus, therefore, let us continually offer to God a sacrifice of praise–the fruit of lips that openly profess his name. (Hebrews 13:15 [NIV])

Where Jesus Christ serves as high priest in the heavenly temple?

Here is the main point: We have a High Priest who sat down in the place of honor beside the throne of the majestic God in heaven. (Hebrews 8:1 [NLT])

And after these things I looked, and the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened. (Revelation 15:5 [BLB])

They serve at a sanctuary that is a copy and shadow of what is in heaven. This is why Moses was warned when he was about to build the tabernacle: “See to it that you make everything according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.” (Hebrews 8:5 [NIV])

So again, I ask, explain how the priests were not sinning while working on the Sabbath when performing temple duties. And explain how the disciples were not sinning when picking up grain in transgression of the Sabbath. These are clear matters taught by Jesus Christ. Perhaps in answering these questions you will realize your own error.

christiang · Nov 3, 2017

Richard_oti said:
Well that one went over your head. You must be short, because it wasn't even a lofty example and it went so far over your head that perhaps I should be concerned.

Both of the extra-cirricular / added "laws of men": do not store milk and meat and the washing of hands, are extensions of / from the Torah. That you can not even see that ... oy vey.

If "do not boil a kid in it's mother's milk", means that you can't store milk and meat together, nor can you eat of them together: Do you eat / use butter, sour cream, cottage cheese or any other milk product when you consume any form of meat?

That you can't see how ludicrous this is, really makes me wonder.

Why is it so ludicrous to separate milk from meat? In another command, are we not instructed to separate blood from meat, where eating the meat of an animal while it still has its blood is sin? Which is a command in the Law that has clearly not be done away with, since it was repeated by the apostles. Perhaps it is you who has despised the command of the Lord by refusing to apply the command's clear instruction to separate milk and meat, and berate me for choosing to obey it. Out of the two, the one who obeys less is you, not I, if I am going above and beyond to ensure that I be blameless before God, even in the smallest of matters. This command is not even burdensome in comparison to greater matters that the elect must do. How about selling your possessions and reducing yourself to little? How about suffering for the sake of Christ, perhaps to the point of death? How about living the rest of your time in this body doing good works and living for the service of others? You grumble at merely having to separate your milk and cheese, so I can't imagine your opinion on these other matters that we all must do and partake in. Your lack of fear of God and obedience to him is shown by everything you say. You prove yourself to be a son of perdition. Repent! Stop hardening your heart! I have provided studies in scripture to perhaps save some of you that are deceived and headed towards destruction.

christiang · Nov 3, 2017

Richard_oti said:
You have attempted to change one of the appointed times of YHVH to something that it is not. In another post, you clearly stated as much, even giving permission, your own blessing upon it in specifically saying "it doesn't matter". Yet you claim that you teach obedience to the law. Not only that, that you teach it "exactly".

Paul stated observance of the Sabbath doesn't matter. If you don't like it, take it up with him,

Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come;the reality, however, is found in Christ. (Colossians 2:16-17 [NIV])

christiang · Nov 3, 2017

Richard_oti said:
<hearty chuckle> No, you are partially obedient in some matters, and you are over the top in others. Not above and beyond, but outright "over the top".

Alright, you win, I am clearly the lesser of us. And, my "sins" of having cheese with a burger and a glass of milk, are willful and unrepentant.

Num 15:30 But the soul that doeth aught with a high hand, whether he be home-born or a sojourner, the same blasphemeth YHVH; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people. 31 Because he hath despised the word of YHVH, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity shall be upon him.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and a fierceness of fire which shall devour the adversaries.

Now we are getting somewhere in you sarcastically admitting that your obedience is lesser.

christiang · Nov 3, 2017

Richard_oti said:
<chuckle> Did I say it was "sin"? How you are getting that impression, I do not know. However, to not boil a kid in it's mother's milk, does not require not having a glass of milk with meat. Nor not having butter on your toast with your breakfast steak.

You are truly being stubborn to the point of being ludicrous with regard to this. What was it you said about "stubborn" people and reasoning with them?

Then why do you berate me and imply I am blaspheming, which is a sin, by separating milk and cheese in relation to this command? Or is it that you is angry that I obey this command fully whereas you don't? Those who are disobedient become angry at those who obey, for if I go above and beyond to obey the Lord, shouldn't it be cause for praise as opposed to reproach? Yet here you are reproaching me. So what I am saying about you is true, you are disobedient and my obedience angers you, just like the righteousness of Abel angered Cain.

mjrhealth · Nov 3, 2017

Rev20 said:
There is no evidence any Gentile was "chosen before the foundation of the world was laid", nor is there any evidence any Gentile was or is of the "elect", nor is there any evidence any Gentile was or is a 'saint".

You really dont get it, a saint is one sanctified, that is done by Christ and His righteousness. all who come to Christ and who have put on His righteousness are saints.

Simples

mjrhealth · Nov 3, 2017

christiang said:
Are you so dull not to realize that there is a difference between calling a man a fool out of admonishment vs hatred? Did Jesus Christ not call the Pharisees specifically snakes and whitewash tombs? Stop grumbling and trying to find fault in what I say because you also want to reject what I am telling you.

Its the "telling" that is the problem....

funny how teh ones doing the "admonishment" are usually teh ones who are wrong....

Rev20 · Nov 3, 2017

christiang said:
Your god is lesser, because you think he has no control over the works of his own hands, whereas the God I believe has predestined all things for his own good purpose, in accordance to scripture. The scriptures clearly teach predestination and choice of God. So, it is you who on the contrary, refuses to come understand the truth, but rather, you embrace the false teachings of men that deny this truth. Your lack of understanding concerning predestination shows you are not approved by God, for anyone who is chosen by God will believe and understand this teaching, for it is impossible for anyone having holy spirit to not know that his his own salvation first came by the choice of God. We know that God chooses way before we were born, hence, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love (Ephesians 1:4 [ESV])

You are flattering yourself by thinking he chose you, rather than the faithful remnant of Israel who were his chosen people, which the Bible states about a gazillion times so we won't miss it!

If you took the time to actually study the Bible, rather than cherry-pick it, you might have noticed that, in Ephesians 1, Paul was speaking of himself and the chosen ones of Israel, prior to addressing the Gentiles:

Notice that in the first part of this passage, Paul was speaking of the "predestinated" as those who FIRST trusted Christ!

"In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ."

Only then does Paul address the Gentiles -- those who LATER trusted Christ!

In whom ye [Gentiles] also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise," -- Eph 1:11-13 KJV

No Gentile was predestinated, nor were any of the Israelites who refused to hear Christ. Those who refused to hear were the natural branches that were cut off (Rom 11:16-17). Once they were cut off, they were like the Gentiles, and were required to repent and call upon the name of the Lord in order to be saved (Rom 11:20-23).

christiang said:
Who are those who are chosen? Both Jews and Gentiles, who have all been called, and who will inherit the kingdom of God,

Baloney. The word of God is loaded with passages that state there are two classes of Christians: those who ARE CALLED, and those WHO CALL upon the name of the Lord. Even the Revelation mentions different classes:

"And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth." -- Rev 11:18 KJV

It is up to you to decide whether to claim to be a prophet, a saint, or one of the small or great ones who fear his name. I, personally, am one of the small ones who fear his name.

The prophets, over and over again, distinguished between the Israelites and Gentiles. And in ever case, when taken in context, the New Testament authors separated Jews and Gentiles -- not by their common salvation, which all believers receive, but by their assigned missions.

For example, when Paul tells the Gentiles that they are now under the covenant and a part of the Holy Temple, he doesn't tell them they are magically "saints", but that they are now fellowcitizens WITH the saints. Big difference!

"Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:" -- Eph 2:11-12 KJV

"Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens WITH the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;" -- Eph 2:19-20 KJV

I am a fellowcitizen with the pastor of my local congregation, but I am not the pastor. I am also a fellowcitizen with the saints of the Most High, but I am no saint.

Every word is important, christiang.

christiang said:
This is why it is not of who runs or wills, but of who God chooses to demonstrate mercy on that will be saved,

No, it is also written that those of Israel who are not called, as well as the Gentiles, who repent and call upon the name of the Lord are saved. What are the first instructions of John the Baptist? Repent. What are the first instructions of Christ? Repent. You can pretend those were idle words, but I caution you against it.

christiang said:
And what if he is willing to make known the wealth of his glory on the objects of mercy that he has prepared beforehand for glory— (Romans 9:23 [NETBIBLE])

For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” (Romans 9:15 [NIV])

So you see, God chooses to show mercy to some… (Romans 9:18 [NLT])

Who is Paul's target audience? You have to go back to Chapter 7 to find it:

"Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?" -- Rom 7:1 KJV

Every word is important, Christiang. Otherwise you might lose the context and end up believing the nonsense of Calvin, which is that we are little more than puppets on a string, and that God foreordained evil, which is blasphemy. God doesn't wish any should perish.

Rev

christiang · Nov 3, 2017

Rev20 said:
You are flattering yourself by thinking he chose you, rather than the faithful remnant of Israel who were his chosen people, which the Bible states about a gazillion times so we won't miss it!

If you took the time to actually study the Bible, rather than cherry-pick it, you might have noticed that, in Ephesians 1, Paul was speaking of himself and the chosen ones of Israel, prior to addressing the Gentiles:

Notice that in the first part of this passage, Paul was speaking of the "predestinated" as those who FIRST trusted Christ!

"In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ."

Only then does Paul address the Gentiles -- those who LATER trusted Christ!

In whom ye [Gentiles] also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise," -- Eph 1:11-13 KJV

No Gentile was predestinated, nor were any of the Israelites who refused to hear Christ. Those who refused to hear were the natural branches that were cut off (Rom 11:16-17). Once they were cut off, they were like the Gentiles, and were required to repent and call upon the name of the Lord in order to be saved (Rom 11:20-23).

Baloney. The word of God is loaded with passages that state there are two classes of Christians: those who ARE CALLED, and those WHO CALL upon the name of the Lord. Even the Revelation mentions different classes:

"And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth." -- Rev 11:18 KJV

It is up to you to decide whether to claim to be a prophet, a saint, or one of the small or great ones who fear his name. I, personally, am one of the small ones who fear his name.

The prophets, over and over again, distinguished between the Israelites and Gentiles. And in ever case, when taken in context, the New Testament authors separated Jews and Gentiles -- not by their common salvation, which all believers receive, but by their assigned missions.

For example, when Paul tells the Gentiles that they are now under the covenant and a part of the Holy Temple, he doesn't tell them they are magically "saints", but that they are now fellowcitizens WITH the saints. Big difference!

"Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:" -- Eph 2:11-12 KJV

"Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens WITH the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;" -- Eph 2:19-20 KJV

I am a fellowcitizen with the pastor of my local congregation, but I am not the pastor. I am also a fellowcitizen with the saints of the Most High, but I am no saint.

Every word is important, christiang.

No, it is also written that those of Israel who are not called, as well as the Gentiles, who repent and call upon the name of the Lord are saved. What are the first instructions of John the Baptist? Repent. What are the first instructions of Christ? Repent. You can pretend those were idle words, but I caution you against it.

Who is Paul's target audience? You have to go back to Chapter 7 to find it:

"Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?" -- Rom 7:1 KJV

Every word is important, Christiang. Otherwise you might lose the context and end up believing the nonsense of Calvin, which is that we are little more than puppets on a string, and that God foreordained evil, which is blasphemy. God doesn't wish any should perish.

Rev

It's not about flattering myself, its about speaking the truth. Tell me, you stubborn man, are the Gentiles adopted sons of God through Jesus Christ, or not?

he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will-- (Ephesians 1:5 [NIV])

This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus. (Ephesians 3:6 [NIV])

remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
(Ephesians 2:12-13 [NIV])

bbyrd009 · Nov 3, 2017

satan appears as an angel of light eh?

Richard_oti · Nov 3, 2017

christiang said:
Why is it so ludicrous to separate milk from meat? In another command, are we not instructed to separate blood from meat, where eating the meat of an animal while it still has its blood is sin? Which is a command in the Law that has clearly not be done away with, since it was repeated by the apostles. Perhaps it is you who has despised the command of the Lord by refusing to apply the command's clear instruction to separate milk and meat, and berate me for choosing to obey it. Out of the two, the one who obeys less is you, not I, if I am going above and beyond to ensure that I be blameless before God, even in the smallest of matters. This command is not even burdensome in comparison to greater matters that the elect must do. How about selling your possessions and reducing yourself to little? How about suffering for the sake of Christ, perhaps to the point of death? How about living the rest of your time in this body doing good works and living for the service of others? You grumble at merely having to separate your milk and cheese, so I can't imagine your opinion on these other matters that we all must do and partake in. Your lack of fear of God and obedience to him is shown by everything you say. You prove yourself to be a son of perdition. Repent! Stop hardening your heart! I have provided studies in scripture to perhaps save some of you that are deceived and headed towards destruction.

What, would you like for me to proclaim as you keep doing. You sound like this:

Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as the rest of men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. 12 I fast twice in the week; I give tithes of all that I get.

Richard_oti · Nov 3, 2017

christiang said:
Paul stated observance of the Sabbath doesn't matter. If you don't like it, take it up with him,

Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come;the reality, however, is found in Christ. (Colossians 2:16-17 [NIV])

Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith YHVH, so shall your seed and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith YHVH.

Richard_oti · Nov 3, 2017

christiang said:
Now we are getting somewhere in you sarcastically admitting that your obedience is lesser.

You keep touting for much better and greater and your knowledge and obedience is ...

Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as the rest of men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. 12 I fast twice in the week; I give tithes of all that I get.

Richard_oti · Nov 3, 2017

christiang said:
Then why do you berate me and imply I am blaspheming, which is a sin, by separating milk and cheese in relation to this command? Or is it that you is angry that I obey this command fully whereas you don't? Those who are disobedient become angry at those who obey, for if I go above and beyond to obey the Lord, shouldn't it be cause for praise as opposed to reproach? Yet here you are reproaching me. So what I am saying about you is true, you are disobedient and my obedience angers you, just like the righteousness of Abel angered Cain.

<chuckle>

Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as the rest of men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. 12 I fast twice in the week; I give tithes of all that I get.

Richard_oti · Nov 3, 2017

christiang said:
So again, I ask, explain how the priests were not sinning while working on the Sabbath when performing temple duties.

So you are confirming that you do need me to lay it out for you.

christiang said:
And explain how the disciples were not sinning when picking up grain in transgression of the Sabbath.

I already did.

christiang said:
These are clear matters taught by Jesus Christ. Perhaps in answering these questions you will realize your own error.

Rev20 · Nov 3, 2017

christiang said:
It's not about flattering myself, its about speaking the truth. Tell me, you stubborn man, are the Gentiles adopted sons of God through Jesus Christ, or not?

First, let's define "stubborn man". A "stubborn man" is any man who challenges your ridiculous, dogmatic assertions.

Next, let us see what the word of God says about the adoption:

"For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;" -- Rom 9:3-4 KJV

That was easy. The adoption belonged to the faithful children of Israel. And if anyone is contentious, we know that Paul was talking to and of the Israelites by this verse:

"Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?" -- Rom 7:1 KJV

christiang said:
he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will-- (Ephesians 1:5 [NIV])

That verse is referring to Paul and the chosen remnant of Israel; same as in Romans 9. If you had bothered to read my previous post, instead of throwing a temper tantrum, you might have seen it.

Again, this is Paul referring to himself and the remnant of Israel:

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will," -- Eph 1:3-5 KJV

This is where Paul begins to change his target reference to the Gentiles:

"That we [the remnant of Israel] should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ." -- Eph 1:12 KJV

The remnant of Israel first trusted in Christ. No doubt about that. It is in the next verse that Paul mentioned the Gentiles ALSO trusted in Christ, not first, but later:

"In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise," -- Eph 1:12-13 KJV

So, Paul was first speaking of himself and the chosen remnant, and then shifted gears to the Gentiles in verse 12. Like I said, the adoption belonged to the remnant of Israel -- the elect!

This is not rocket science, but it does require you to actually read it if you ever expect to understand it. Perhaps you might consider some courses in reading comprehension.

christiang said:
This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus. (Ephesians 3:6 [NIV])

remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
(Ephesians 2:12-13 [NIV])

There is no doubt that Gentiles are fellow-heirs. The difference is in their roles within the kingdom. The children of Israel were promised the royal priesthood:

"And now if ye will indeed hear my voice, and keep my covenant, ye shall be to me a peculiar people above all nations; for the whole earth is mine. And ye shall be to me a royal priesthood and a holy nation: these words shalt thou speak to the children of Israel." -- Exo 19:5-6 LXX

"Hear my voice and keep my covenant"? Jesus said his sheep hear his voice [John 10:27], and Jesus also said he was sent ONLY to the lost sheep of the house of Israel [Matt 15:24]. Likewise, his disciples [Matt 10:5-6].

So, the lost sheep of the house of Israel heard his voice. They were also the only people on earth who could have possibly kept his covenant, since they were the only family on earth to receive the covenant. Therefore they received the royal priesthood, as promised in Exodus 19.

Isaiah also foretold the royal priesthood:

"The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me . . . To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the Lord, that he might be glorified . . . But ye shall be named the Priests of the Lord: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves . . . And their seed shall be known among the Gentiles, and their offspring among the people: all that see them shall acknowledge them, that they are the seed which the Lord hath blessed." -- Isa 61:1, 3, 6, 9 KJV

Are those Priests of the Lord in any way identified as Gentiles? No.

Peter, in a letter addressed to the scattered tribes in Asia Minor, informed them that they were some of the remnant of Israel who were the recipients of that promise in Exodus:

"But ye are a chosen generation [race], a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light; Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy." -- 1Pet 2:9-10 KJV

Verse 10 of that passage is a direct fulfillment of a promise in Hosea to restore mercy to the house of Israel and to restore the two houses into one. There is not a whisper about Gentiles in that Hosea prophecy. It is referring exclusively to the houses of Israel and Judah.

You may as well bite the bullet and admit that the remnant of Israel are God's chosen people, like the Bible saith over and over again.

Rev

christiang · Nov 4, 2017

Richard_oti said:
What, would you like for me to proclaim as you keep doing. You sound like this:

Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as the rest of men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. 12 I fast twice in the week; I give tithes of all that I get.

So we should sin then? As to not being able to say we are not extortioners and adulterers? Or does this passage simply imply that all must come to the Lord humbly, which is why I stated that all believers must humble themselves by selling their possessions and reducing themselves to little? Because of your disobedience and lack of knowledge, you twist scripture to find fault when there is no fault. There is no sin in saying one is blameless, because we are all called to be blameless.

christiang · Nov 4, 2017

Richard_oti said:
Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith YHVH, so shall your seed and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith YHVH.

How can you have new moons in a new creation where there is no moon,

In his days may the righteous flourish, and peace abound, till the moon be no more! (Psalm 72:7 [ESV])

Since it will cease to exist when heaven and earth passes away,

Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. (Matthew 24:35 [NIV])

Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. (Mark 13:31 [NIV])

Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. (Luke 21:33 [NIV])

Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. (Revelation 20:11 [NIV[)

And there will be no more night in the new heaven and new earth?

There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light... (Revelation 22:5 [NIV])

In the writings of the prophets, passages can span hundreds or thousands from one verse to another, and may not even be written in the order that they will happen, which is why we have the book of Revelation, which reveals the order of the events that the ancient prophets wrote of. As such, just as there will no longer be any new moons, so there shall no longer be Sabbaths, for the command of the Sabbath is aeonial, not eternal, and it shall pass away, for the Law that commands observance of Sabbath shall pass away with this heaven and earth,

For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. (Matthew 5:18 [NIV])

christiang · Nov 4, 2017

Richard_oti said:
You keep touting for much better and greater and your knowledge and obedience is ...

Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as the rest of men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. 12 I fast twice in the week; I give tithes of all that I get.

Because you don't like that I speak of mere separation of milk and cheese? If I am berated for obedience, and called arrogant and proud, then I will gladly be arrogant and proud in my obedience of God. People like you love to find fault and grumble against those who are blameless, such is the way of those who are perishing against those who are not.

christiang · Nov 4, 2017

Rev20 said:
First, let's define "stubborn man". A "stubborn man" is any man who challenges your ridiculous, dogmatic assertions.

Next, let us see what the word of God says about the adoption:

"For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;" -- Rom 9:3-4 KJV

That was easy. The adoption belonged to the faithful children of Israel. And if anyone is contentious, we know that Paul was talking to and of the Israelites by this verse:

"Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?" -- Rom 7:1 KJV

That verse is referring to Paul and the chosen remnant of Israel; same as in Romans 9. If you had bothered to read my previous post, instead of throwing a temper tantrum, you might have seen it.

Again, this is Paul referring to himself and the remnant of Israel:

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will," -- Eph 1:3-5 KJV

This is where Paul begins to change his target reference to the Gentiles:

"That we [the remnant of Israel] should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ." -- Eph 1:12 KJV

The remnant of Israel first trusted in Christ. No doubt about that. It is in the next verse that Paul mentioned the Gentiles ALSO trusted in Christ, not first, but later:

"In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise," -- Eph 1:12-13 KJV

So, Paul was first speaking of himself and the chosen remnant, and then shifted gears to the Gentiles in verse 12. Like I said, the adoption belonged to the remnant of Israel -- the elect!

This is not rocket science, but it does require you to actually read it if you ever expect to understand it. Perhaps you might consider some courses in reading comprehension.

There is no doubt that Gentiles are fellow-heirs. The difference is in their roles within the kingdom. The children of Israel were promised the royal priesthood:

"And now if ye will indeed hear my voice, and keep my covenant, ye shall be to me a peculiar people above all nations; for the whole earth is mine. And ye shall be to me a royal priesthood and a holy nation: these words shalt thou speak to the children of Israel." -- Exo 19:5-6 LXX

"Hear my voice and keep my covenant"? Jesus said his sheep hear his voice [John 10:27], and Jesus also said he was sent ONLY to the lost sheep of the house of Israel [Matt 15:24]. Likewise, his disciples [Matt 10:5-6].

So, the lost sheep of the house of Israel heard his voice. They were also the only people on earth who could have possibly kept his covenant, since they were the only family on earth to receive the covenant. Therefore they received the royal priesthood, as promised in Exodus 19.

Isaiah also foretold the royal priesthood:

"The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me . . . To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the Lord, that he might be glorified . . . But ye shall be named the Priests of the Lord: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves . . . And their seed shall be known among the Gentiles, and their offspring among the people: all that see them shall acknowledge them, that they are the seed which the Lord hath blessed." -- Isa 61:1, 3, 6, 9 KJV

Are those Priests of the Lord in any way identified as Gentiles? No.

Peter, in a letter addressed to the scattered tribes in Asia Minor, informed them that they were some of the remnant of Israel who were the recipients of that promise in Exodus:

"But ye are a chosen generation [race], a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light; Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy." -- 1Pet 2:9-10 KJV

Verse 10 of that passage is a direct fulfillment of a promise in Hosea to restore mercy to the house of Israel and to restore the two houses into one. There is not a whisper about Gentiles in that Hosea prophecy. It is referring exclusively to the houses of Israel and Judah.

You may as well bite the bullet and admit that the remnant of Israel are God's chosen people, like the Bible saith over and over again.

Rev

The Gentiles who are born of the Spirit are counted as offspring of Abraham, therefore, they are chosen as if they had been a natural descendant,

Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham's children. On the contrary, "It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned." In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring. (Romans 9:7-8 [NIV])

Whereas those who naturally descended from Abraham are not all counted as descendants of Abraham, because they are not chosen,

It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. (Romans 9:6 [NIV])

But even so, I will not argue the matter of the inclusion of the Gentiles into the promises of Israel any further, because my point of argument in all this is predestination and choice of God before the foundations of the world, even if you lessen the scope of who God chose from the foundation of the world, according to your own misguided belief, how can you deny God has predestined and chosen before the foundation of the world? Forget identifying "who" these chosen are, the scriptures declare this truth,

even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love (Ephesians 1:4 [ESV])

And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. (Romans 8:30 [NIV])

For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. (Romans 8:29 [NIV])

To the point where our lives are even written out in books in heaven before we even lived them,

You saw me before I was born. Every day of my life was recorded in your book. Every moment was laid out before a single day had passed. (Psalm 139:16 [NLT])

These are truths you cannot deny.

The Law of Moses Has Not Been Abolished

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