"Hallowed be thy Name!" - WHAT name?
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so, in Revelation chapter 4 who sits on the throne.....
YOU said it was Jesus, and refuse to post it.
Enjoy talking to yourself.
101G
Well-Known Member
If you recognize it such then you do, if you don't then I will leave the specifics alone. I simply read through the entire thread and your way of handling people struck me as often sarcastic or even unnecessarily insulting.
If you say it was not, that is then between you and God. I am not your judge. I am simply giving you what I hope is good advice. If it really is good advice according to God, then you should heed it. If it is not then go on along on your pathway to your destination.
What Jesus did, He did while always knowing the hearts of those to whom He spoke and knowing always the will of God. He never misspoke. He never used the wrong tone nor did He ever unnecessarily speak against anyone for He knew their hearts and He knew the will of God in what he was doing... always. He never sinned in what he did or what he said or how he said it.
Do you always know their hearts before you make it so personal? I don't know all of your heart, so I also need to try to walk softly, but I will speak my piece here. You may take it or leave it.
Consider how Jesus always treated Judas even after it is clear from scripture that he knew what Judas was going to do.
Was Jesus ever uncharitable to anyone? Apostle Paul writes out what charity is:
"Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things." I Cor 13:4-7
If we believe the scriptures then Jesus never sinned. Is it possible to be uncharitable and sin not?
Is the teaching of the knowledge you believe that you have more important than charity? Consider again your own situation if you happen all knowledge without having charity:
"Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing." I Cor 13:1-3
Actually more times than I can count, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything, does it?
Jesus was speaking from the knowledge of God to let people know where they were and where they were not for He did know. He also rebuked his own closest followers for what they did or said with the wrong spirit as when for instance they suggested calling fire down from heaven to destroy people. He called Peter satan in the same chapter in which he gave him credit for hearing what thus saith God.
Was Jesus wrong? No, they were wrong and we are wrong when our spirit is wrong. No charity on our part means we're wrong even if our knowledge is correct. This does not mean you alone, but ME also when my spirit is wrong.
And who are you my friend to decide that because Elijah did it, you can do it? Elijah according to the scriptures was a prophet of God. Yet, God certainly rebuked him when he suggested that he was the only one left on the Lord's side even though he was running away in fear for his own body of flesh. Why did he not stand his ground and call on the name of the Lord? He was not the first prophet of God to miss his way with God in scripture and he was certainly not the last one. I would be slow to imitate them when they also made mistakes.
And so you lump together all of those who oppose you and act as if you were who...? You and I really nothing... even though we may get our heads swollen up at times.
We, you and I, would be nothing at all if Jesus had not opened the Way for God to fill us with something good. But, God did not remove all of the garbage and the tendency in us to make more garbage. That is part of the work that remains to be done in each of us until we have overcome all of the world as Jesus did. Getting ahead of Jesus on anything is not advisable.
Some of these people you are so carelessly jumping on do love God even if they might not know the Bible as well as you do. Yet, you lump them all together as the bad guys to be condemned either because they don't know what you know or because they don't agree with what you believe? Who are you? Consider these words:
"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." John 3:18
If any one of these your opposers had charity without as much knowledge as you, would he not still be closer to God than you would be with your knowledge and no charity? I am not saying that you do not, but pay attention to what you are doing and who you are and who you are not.
Who is it you are condemning and why? Hey again, I am not condemning you. Rather along with Haggai I am saying, "Consider your ways".
If they want to blaspheme God and Christ? And you, of course, know their hearts as well as God does. You know that on some of your beliefs I do agree with you, but with what I have seen you do on this thread I have backed away from supporting you as I might.
Thanks for the advice, Amadeus! Thank Heavens I am no factor in their beliefs!
I always try to learn from others- but my GODFREY- there's nothing to learn from them so far!
I always try to learn from others- but my GODFREY- there's nothing to learn from them so far!
Just keep smiling my friend and listening to God. From Him there is always more to learn if we are paying attention.
Jun2u
Well-Known Member
You are isolating Ancient / National Israel from the rest of the world. It’s true God chose Israel to reveal Himself to them, but time and time again, they disobeyed Him. So He had to divorce them.
Now, in Romans 2, He is making a distinction between who really is a Jew, and He says a Jew is one inwardly and not one who is outwardly (flesh). In other words, a real Jew is the seed promised to Isaac (spiritually circumcised), and not one who is born to Jewish family.
The commentary on Romans 2 is found in Deuteronomy 10:16. Can you circumcise the foreskin of your heart. God answers in Deuteronomy 30:6 that He will circumcise the foreskin of the hearts of those He planed to save.
Abraham was a Gentile until he was circumcised. Therefore, the Israel of God which consists of all true believers are the spiritual children of God, and these are scattered all over the world and born at different times in history.
I’m afraid you just cannot grasp / “see” the meaning of passages in Scripture. You know what, I’ll leave you alone to your own world for it is not profitable to have discussions with you any longer. Scripture declares if someone come to your door and bring not the Gospel of Jesus, let him be accursed.
I think I read this motto someplace: “Where there is knowledge stay not ignorant.”
To God Be The Glory
Jun2u
Well-Known Member
Never tell someone specially a Christian he is wrong!
! Corinthians 14:36.
What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
Please read post #116 answer #4
I will not even entertain your question since it is a vain question.
To God Be The Glory
pia
Well-Known Member
I just used the name of Jesus, that is what got me a response, so I have had no need to use any other form than that, or Father, which I have also used...I really am not getting in to some form of arbitrary argument about the 'actual' name of God, as it works very well without that, and unless He says otherwise, I will stay with the name of Jesus...others can do as they want...it is not my job what so ever, to get others to do it, the way it worked for me, all I can do is pass that along, and people can accept or reject that as they please....We are NOT responsible for the relationship others have with Him, that is between them and Him imho....
Richard_oti
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We have verses like:
Luk 10:22 All things have been delivered unto me of my Father: and no one knoweth who the Son is, save the Father; and who the Father is, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son willeth to reveal him.
Joh 17:6 I manifested thy name unto the men whom thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them to me; and they have kept thy word.
To quote a couple. Yes, there are others.
I agree with you that Jesus revealed our Father's character. Further, and just as importantly, Jesus revealed the will of our Father. In fact, I agree with your essence of your post. I find you admirable in your faith, though I do not agree with everything you write.
As for haShem (the Name) of our Father: It does not translate nor transliterate into Greek very well.
In Josephus: Wars 5.5.7 "sacred name (of God): it consists of four vowels."
Yehoshua` (Exo 17:9) became Iesou (LXX). The Greek language does not have the phonetic capability to properly represent Hebrew. So just as Yehoshua` (Yeshua`) became Iesous in Greek, Iosoe in Latin, Iosua / Iesus in English and finally after the development of the letter "J" and the English language, Jesus.
For comparative purposes if I may:
Exodus 17:9
1568 Bishops: Iosua
1587 Geneva: Ioshua
Vulgate: Iosue
LXX: Iesou
Deuteronomy 1:38
Bishops: Iosuah
Geneva: Ioshua
Vulgate: Iosue
LXX: Iesous
Haggai 1:1
Bishops: Iosua
Geneva: Iehoshua
Vulgate: Iesum
LXX: Iesoun
Matthew 1:1
Bishops: Iesus
Geneva: Iesvs
Vulgate: Iesu
LXX: n/a
John 1:17
Bishops: Iesus
Geneva: Iesus
Vulgate: Iesum
LXX: n/a
Hebrews 4:8
Bishops: Iesus
Geneva: Iesus
Vulgate: Iesus
LXX: n/a
Back to haShem:
Exodus 17:5: YHVH (MT); Kurios (LXX);
In English, YHVH has been rendered as LORD, Jehovah, Yahweh, Yahveh, Yihovih, Yihveh, etc., etc., ad infinitum.
The nikud (vowel points) in Hebrew were not added until from the 7th to 10th century CE. Thus, we do not know the pronunciation of YHVH. I have my theory, however it is incomplete at this time. It is a theory that I have entertained about 18 years now. It is a theory based upon what may have been an "epiphany" with regard to it. However I can not support it, nor would it be accepted by most. I am sure you understand that based upon what I have read from you. YHVH will not hold anyone guiltless that takes Shemo (His Name) in vain. If I am correct and I put it there to be trampled upon ... OTOH: I could be completely without merit in it.
The purpose of the nikud, was to try and establish a uniform pronunciation of the language. While a poor example, we can see a difference in pronunciation in such as:
Jdg 12:6 then said they unto him, Say now Shibboleth; and he said Sibboleth; for he could not frame to pronounce it right: then they laid hold on him, and slew him at the fords of the Jordan. And there fell at that time of Ephraim forty and two thousand.
For myself:
Isa 52:6 Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak; behold, it is I.
Eze 39:7 And my holy name will I make known in the midst of my people Israel; neither will I suffer my holy name to be profaned any more: and the nations shall know that I am YHVH, the Holy One in Israel.
Zec 13:9 And I will bring the third part into the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried. They shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people; and they shall say, YHVH is my God.
Compare:
Jer 23:27 that think to cause my people to forget my name by their dreams which they tell every man to his neighbor, as their fathers forgat my name for Baal.
As usual, another overly verbose reply. Seems to be my downfall.
Thank you for sharing your faith Pia. I enjoy reading your posts.
Richard_oti
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Would you care to explain what the correct pronunciation of YHVH actually is and support it? I already know that you can not do it, thus the question is rhetorical in nature. Would you care to elaborate upon the meaning behind each, YHVH and "Jehovah"? If my use of "Jesus" bothers you, I shall refrain. In fact, I shall increase my usage of transliterated Ivrit in response to 'otka in so that I do not offend you with the usage of such as "Jesus".
But don't think that I do not realize from whence this comes.
Why do those "flavours" (translations) also render Yah as "Jehovah" when that is not what is actually in Hebrew in 49 occurrences?
Jer 23:27 that think to cause my people to forget my name by their dreams which they tell every man to his neighbor, as their fathers forgat my name for Baal.
And of course, such a thing would never happen, just as it would never happen with regard to the Instruction of YHVH.
1 Maccabees 1:41 Then the king wrote to his whole kingdom that all should be one people, 42 and that all should give up their particular customs. 43 All the Gentiles accepted the command of the king. Many even from Israel gladly adopted his religion; they sacrificed to idols and profaned the sabbath. 44 And the king sent letters by messengers to Jerusalem and the towns of Judah; he directed them to follow customs strange to the land, 45 to forbid burnt offerings and sacrifices and drink offerings in the sanctuary, to profane sabbaths and festivals, 46 to defile the sanctuary and the priests, 47 to build altars and sacred precincts and shrines for idols, to sacrifice swine and other unclean animals, 48 and to leave their sons uncircumcised. They were to make themselves abominable by everything unclean and profane, 49 so that they would forget the law and change all the ordinances. 50 He added, "And whoever does not obey the command of the king shall die."
Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I also will forget thy children.
A man of understanding is neither.
But we are not talking of man. We are talking about haShem, Shemo. haShem that I speak with reverence. And one that you are not ready to fully receive in my opinion.
Will 'Eloheykem understand? Ulay, ulay lo'. However, it is your duty to seek. And, you are the one insisting upon the name of "Jehovah", a name that you do not fully grasp as of yet.
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Richard_oti
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And again, you seem to fail to comprehend. Perhaps it is the manner in which I have worded things. OTOH: Perhaps you are being intentionally obtuse, and merely attempting to turn this around.
So one more time, and then I am finished with this: According to your Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionary what is the root word of 'adam H120? What word is 'adam H120 from?
<snip>
Care to try again. You might want to consider that in both accounts, it was upon the 6th day.
Bere'shit 2, is an elaboration of the Bere'shit 1 account.
Further, would you care to demonstrate that difference in Hebrew between H120 and H121?
Still completely either missing, or intentionally attempting to redirect the point to be in your favour. According to your Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionary what is the root word of 'adam H120? What word is 'adam H120 from?
You are intentionally attempting to obfuscate the matter, because it also dissolves your argument with regard to YHVH. Which you mistakenly think is AHYH.
<chuckle> No, and I didn't obviously didn't know that "Eve" is some made up name. When ha'adam called her 'Ishah, and then ha'adam named 'ishto Khavah.
<chuckle> Perhaps it's just my age and that I don't remember as well nor as much as I used too. Or perhaps I am simply too old and feeble, let alone too lazy to do any research or look anything up.
But I still know and remember enough to know when someone is using aspersion as the bait they are casting.
Richard_oti
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Do not think that I have not considered all the possible aspects. Do not think that I have not investigated all the possible aspects.
For somewhere, you wrote how 'Eloheyka had revealed this to you. And I know and am confident in what 'Elohay has revealed to me. I remember the day, I was sitting in a dinner waiting for my lunch order, reading His Word for the shear love of His Word, when that which I know and am confident in, was revealed to me.
However, unlike you, I do not judge whether or not your "God" is Ba'al or YHVH. For I have contemplated 'ehyeh asher 'ehyeh, and I shall let YHVH 'Eloheynu settle the matter.
I would only add when pronouncing There is no "J" sound in Hebrew. Not a big deal Father doesn't hold it against us when done in ignorance. And before anyone gets upset with me. I'm not calling anyone here ignorant.
101G
Well-Known Member
U said, "Abraham was a Gentile until he was circumcised". THAT'S and ERROR on your part. Abraham got the promise BEFORE he was circumcised, Read the Genesis account and this, Romans 4:11 "And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also". see, Jun2u you didn't read my previous post nor the bible. so before you condemn me read first. and as for Israel after the flesh, no different for any gentile, there you should read Romans 1 and 2
I'm like my brother the apostle Paul, Galatians 4:16 "Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?"
peace in Christ.
101G
Well-Known Member
another classic example of saying I got my bacon burnt, and now I got to eat it.
101G
Well-Known Member
Richard, Richard, no commentary need, put scripture on table. disprove what i have said by Scripture, not by personal opinion, which don't count.
Peace in Christ jesus.
