Every Scripture- IN ORDER- revealing Who God really is!

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

amadeus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2008
22,460
31,581
113
80
Oklahoma
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
@theQuestion

So you go on with the explanation of and support for your beliefs but skip over my questions? If it were me making the declaration and you the recipient wanted a reasonable explanation would it be so unreasonable an expectation? Of course you can ignore the questions, but someone else may also read a little more carefully. If what you have is the truth, why would you not want to clear it up? If you don't know then that is the answer. There is still much that we, none of us, know about God.

Give God the glory in any case for He continues to be worthy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Helen

theQuestion

Active Member
Oct 30, 2017
519
66
28
63
seattle
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
@theQuestion

So you go on with the explanation of and support for your beliefs but skip over my questions? If it were me making the declaration and you the recipient wanted a reasonable explanation would it be so unreasonable an expectation? Of course you can ignore the questions, but someone else may also read a little more carefully. If what you have is the truth, why would you not want to clear it up? If you don't know then that is the answer. There is still much that we, none of us, know about God.

Give God the glory in any case for He continues to be worthy.

I am posting this list I compiled, and don't wish to clutter it with endless debate.
Start a Topic with your questions- and i will be happy to join you!
 

amadeus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2008
22,460
31,581
113
80
Oklahoma
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I am posting this list I compiled, and don't wish to clutter it with endless debate.
Start a Topic with your questions- and i will be happy to join you!
So then leave it here.
May God help you find what it is that you really need!
 

theQuestion

Active Member
Oct 30, 2017
519
66
28
63
seattle
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
So then leave it here.
May God help you find what it is that you really need!

I have what I need. He has richly provided it- despite my many faults.
What do you mean?
And why not ask these Questions in your own Topics?
 

amadeus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2008
22,460
31,581
113
80
Oklahoma
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I have what I need. He has richly provided it- despite my many faults.
What do you mean?
And why not ask these Questions in your own Topics?
Are you here then only to expound your way with no interaction with your readers. My questions were to you on things written on your thread and you say go start another thread. I think not. Thank you for your consideration.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Helen

theQuestion

Active Member
Oct 30, 2017
519
66
28
63
seattle
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
God, foretelling about Jesus:

Isaiah 53:10- Yet it was the will of Jehovah to bruise him; He has put him to grief;
when he makes himself an offering for sin, he shall see his offspring, he shall prolong his days;
the will of Jehovah shall prosper in his hand;
11- he shall see the fruit of the travail of his soul and be satisfied;
by his knowledge shall the righteous one, My servant,
make many to be accounted righteous; and he shall bear their iniquities.

God is NO ONE'S servant. Jesus is a servant, as well as son, of GOD!
 

theQuestion

Active Member
Oct 30, 2017
519
66
28
63
seattle
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Jeremiah was inspired by God’s Breath (the Holy Spirit) to give another prophecy of the coming of Christ, while the Jews were captives in Babylon:

Jer 30:8- And it shall come to pass in that day, saith Jehovah of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds; and strangers shall no more make him their bondman;
9- but they shall serve Jehovah their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.

Notice that God was NOT talking about Himself (nor literally David)- but someone in ADDITION to Himself- from David's Line!!
Any pretence at being a Christian is quickly proven false when denying the One who SENT him, the One Jesus Serves. (Not TWO)
(Jesus was in the line of David)
 

Jay Ross

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2011
6,876
2,560
113
QLD
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
<snip>

Note that the Earth already existed when these Creative 'Days' began!
All was NOT made in 6 24-hour days as most of CHURCHianity teaches!

Genesis 1:1 tells us that God first made the heavens and the earth, on the first day of creation. As to whether or not the earth and the heavens already existed prior to the "first day" of the Creation account, is a debatable point drawn out of the silence of the Biblical account.

And yes I agree with you, the creation account was not completed in 6 x 24 hour solar days, as the Hebrew word used for "day" at the end of Genesis 1:5, is a different word to the created day in Genesis 1:14.

However, a mistake made off topic in the OP has remove any credibility of what you have written since.
 

Richard_oti

Well-Known Member
Mar 17, 2008
1,170
739
113
the Hebrew word used for "day" at the end of Genesis 1:5, is a different word to the created day in Genesis 1:14.

Bere'shit (Genesis) 1:5 ; two occurrences: yom ; yom
Bere'shit 1:14 ; two occurrences: ha-yom ; u-le-yamim

In 1:5 it is: day ; day.

In 1:14 it is: the-day ; and-for-days

ha- is the definite article.
u- is a conjunctive vav
le- is the preposition lamed
yamim is the pl. of yom.

So they are all the same "yom". It is not per say a different word, but a pl..
 
  • Like
Reactions: KBCid

Jay Ross

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2011
6,876
2,560
113
QLD
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Bere'shit (Genesis) 1:5 ; two occurrences: yom ; yom
Bere'shit 1:14 ; two occurrences: ha-yom ; u-le-yamim

In 1:5 it is: day ; day.

In 1:14 it is: the-day ; and-for-days

ha- is the definite article.
u- is a conjunctive vav
le- is the preposition lamed
yamim is the pl. of yom.

So they are all the same "yom". It is not per say a different word, but a pl..

I was simply pointing out that the same Hebrew root word can be embedded in a number of different Hebrew words. As such, it does not mean that these different Hebrew words all have the same meaning.

If you like consider the Hebrew words used to describe the period of light in Genesis 1:5 and 1:16,י֔וֹם and הַיּ֔וֹם respectively, and both are translated as day, but the words are very different. Genesis 1:5 is a reference to a "day" within God's time frame of reference while Genesis 1:16 is a reference to a "day" within man's time frame of reference.

The English language is based on Latin roots, yet the actual meaning of English words with the same embedded Latin Root can vary markedly depending on the word itself where the root is embedded.

Just because you can demonstrated that the Hebrew root is the same in both words, it does not mean that the meanings of the Hebrew words with this embedded root are exactly the same. This is where the English language leaves a lot to be desired with respect to the English translation of the original biblical text. This just happens to be one of them.
 

Richard_oti

Well-Known Member
Mar 17, 2008
1,170
739
113
I was simply pointing out that the same Hebrew root word can be embedded in a number of different Hebrew words. As such, it does not mean that these different Hebrew words all have the same meaning.

Hebrew also has it's share homographs, just as any language does.

I am open to examining some examples.


If you like consider the Hebrew words used to describe the period of light in Genesis 1:5 and 1:16,י֔וֹם and הַיּ֔וֹם respectively, and both are translated as day, but the words are very different. Genesis 1:5 is a reference to a "day" within God's time frame of reference while Genesis 1:16 is a reference to a "day" within man's time frame of reference.

Bere'shit 1:5 yom ; yom
Bere'shit 1:16 ha-yom

In 1:5 it is day ; day He called the "light" day, and it was day one
In 1:16 it is the-day

ha- The letter Hey in prefix there is the definite article. With the nikud (vowel point) it is ha- Hey Patakh. It is not at all a different word, it just has the definite article prefixed. 'Elohim made the two great lights, the greater light to rule ha-yom, the-day.

Speaking of "day" and Bere'shit 1:5, what do you think the "light" in 1:3 is?
The "light" brought forth by the spoken "Word" of 'Elohim?


The English language is based on Latin roots, yet the actual meaning of English words with the same embedded Latin Root can vary markedly depending on the word itself where the root is embedded.

Just because you can demonstrated that the Hebrew root is the same in both words, it does not mean that the meanings of the Hebrew words with this embedded root are exactly the same. This is where the English language leaves a lot to be desired with respect to the English translation of the original biblical text. This just happens to be one of them.

Like I said, I am open to examining the Hebrew.
 
Last edited:

Jay Ross

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2011
6,876
2,560
113
QLD
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Richard,

Although the transliterated in Genesis 1:5 is the same for both occurrences, yet the Hebrew words differ slightly. (source: - Biblehub.com)

First occurrence י֔וֹם yō·wm

Second occurrence י֥וֹם yō·wm

So, by my reasoning, the meaning of both words in the Hebrew text have very different meanings.

Genesis 1:5 first occurrence י֔וֹם yō·wm

Genesis 1:16 first occurrence הַיּ֔וֹם hay·yō·wm

Genesis 1:18 first occurrence בַּיּ֣וֹם bay·yō·wm

The subtleties between Genesis 1:16 and 1:18 I am ignorant on, but the context of both verses suggests to me that both occurrences are speaking of a period of time associated with the sun while it is casting light over the visible earth as seen from its perspective.

For me the difference between Genesis 1:5 and Genesis 1:16, 18 has to do with the respective reference time frames being spoken about. Genesis 1:5 is with respect to the reference time frame in God’s domain, while both Genesis 1;16, 18 are with respect to the reference time frame within man’s domain.

Sadly, I have not found the tools/references which allows me to compare Hebrew words and their respective Hebrew Root.

It seems that the Hebrew text does not show the same on this forum site, as on the Biblehub.com site and the differences may not be as easily observable.
 

Richard_oti

Well-Known Member
Mar 17, 2008
1,170
739
113
Richard,

Although the transliterated in Genesis 1:5 is the same for both occurrences, yet the Hebrew words differ slightly. (source: - Biblehub.com)

First occurrence י֔וֹם yō·wm

Second occurrence י֥וֹם yō·wm

Hi Jay. I see what you are referring unto. Those are cantillation marks (te'amim). Their purpose is with regard to the chanting of the Hebrew Scriptures. In simplest terms, they are musical notation. They serve to denote intonation and pause in the chanting of the Scriptures. They have no function whatsoever with regard to the meaning of the word.


So, by my reasoning, the meaning of both words in the Hebrew text have very different meanings.

I do understand your reasoning, however they are in fact the same word. I guess I can't fault you for paying attention to every "jot" and "tittle".

Have you ever examined the Isaiah Scroll found amoung the DSS? You will notice the lack of both the nikud and the te'amim in it. Link: http://dss.collections.imj.org.il/isaiah


Genesis 1:5 first occurrence י֔וֹם yō·wm

Genesis 1:16 first occurrence הַיּ֔וֹם hay·yō·wm

Genesis 1:18 first occurrence בַּיּ֣וֹם bay·yō·wm

The subtleties between Genesis 1:16 and 1:18 I am ignorant on, but the context of both verses suggests to me that both occurrences are speaking of a period of time associated with the sun while it is casting light over the visible earth as seen from its perspective.

1:5 yom, is YVM : Yod - Vav - Mem.

The nikud (vowel point) is the dot over the vav, it is a kholem malay (aka vav holem). Thus giving us a transliteration of yom.

The te'amim are the two dots over the yod, or first letter. It is a zaqef qaton, again in the simplest terms, it is a musical notation.


1:16 ha-yom : hayom : HYVM : Hey - Yod - Vav - Mem The first letter, Hey, is the prefixed definite article. And of course, yom as above follows. Under the Hey, there is a horizontal line, that is the nikud Patakh ; a : as in father. Hey Patakh form ha- : The dot in the Yod, is a dagesh. In this case, a dagesh hazak, which is the result of the presence of the definite article to keep this simple. The rest is as described above regarding 1:5.

In transliteration, I generally would transliterate the 1st occurence in v16 as ha-yom, denoting the prefix ha-. By separating it in such manner, it renders such more readily visible. When translating as I did in my previous reply, I generally render it as: the-day, further making all the more apparent the relationship.


1:18 ba-yom : bayom : BYVM : Beit - Yod - Vav - Mem In this occurrence we have the preposition Beit in prefix to yom. ba-yom : in-the day. When the preposition beit introduces a definite noun, it forms a contraction with the definite article.

Example: Genesis ; be-re'shit ; in-the beginning.

The letter Beit is one of several that have two sounds, hard and soft. Beit without a dagesh, is veit, in that it is soft frictive as in v. With a dagesh (dagesh qal), it carries the hard b sound.

So we have Beit Patakh, ba- : The horizontal line beneath Beit is the nikud Patakh, "a" as in father again as we saw above. The rest of yom, is as described above with the exception of another cantillation mark. The backwards looking L below the Yod is a shofar holekh, again, in the simplest terms, musical notation which has no effect upon the meaning of the word.

And yes, you are correct that all three of these occurrences are referring to a day as in the daylight hours. Yom refers to both the daylight hours and a 24 hour period (and more, but I want to keep this on the simpler side). It is context, or a qualifying / associated word that determines the difference as to what period of time that yom is referring unto.

Hopefully I have offered a little help and perhaps a little insight.


For me the difference between Genesis 1:5 and Genesis 1:16, 18 has to do with the respective reference time frames being spoken about. Genesis 1:5 is with respect to the reference time frame in God’s domain, while both Genesis 1;16, 18 are with respect to the reference time frame within man’s domain.

I can see how you could take it there. However I respectfully disagree.


Sadly, I have not found the tools/references which allows me to compare Hebrew words and their respective Hebrew Root.

For myself, it required learning a little Hebrew to know and understand.

What I would suggest to you: If you don't have a hardcopy interlinear, get one. From there, begin to learn the Hebrew Alef-Bet. And the nikud. Any decent hardcopy interlinear will have the Alef-Bet and a chart of the basic nikud.

From there, have discussions with people such as myself slowly increasing your usage of transliterated Hebrew. That alone will help you immensely. And, it provided a system of checks and balances in doing so with people who have at least a minimal working knowledge of the language.


It seems that the Hebrew text does not show the same on this forum site, as on the Biblehub.com site and the differences may not be as easily observable.

It shows up fine on my computer. However I also a couple few Hebrew fonts installed. If it doesn't show up properly, that is due to a lack of the proper font.
 

Jay Ross

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2011
6,876
2,560
113
QLD
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Hi Jay. I see what you are referring unto. Those are cantillation marks (te'amim). Their purpose is with regard to the chanting of the Hebrew Scriptures. In simplest terms, they are musical notation. They serve to denote intonation and pause in the chanting of the Scriptures. They have no function whatsoever with regard to the meaning of the word. <snip>

thanks
 

theQuestion

Active Member
Oct 30, 2017
519
66
28
63
seattle
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Genesis 1:1 tells us that God first made the heavens and the earth, on the first day of creation.

Only if you WANT to believe that:it opens telling the reader what is to be examined~~
"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth"- then it proceeds to tell us how.

He doesn't make it all, erase it, then make it all AGAIN!
 
Last edited:

theQuestion

Active Member
Oct 30, 2017
519
66
28
63
seattle
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The prophet Daniel sees God and His son in a vision involving the world governments (symbolized as monsters- as God views them)-

Dan 7:1-In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon Daniel had a dream and visions of his head upon his bed: then he wrote the dream, and told the sum of the matters.
9- I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10-A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
13- I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before Him.
14-And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

(This was briefly mentioned in the 2nd Chapter: 2:44- And in the days of those kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed, nor shall the sovereignty thereof be left to another people; but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever.)

There is God, Christ, and angels. (No Nameless Ghost-God)
God GIVES (not RETURNS) all power & authority to him.
And God DOES "give His glory" to one other!
And notice coming on the clouds pictures things taking place in heaven?
That is how Jesus will be "coming on the clouds" when he "returns".
 

theQuestion

Active Member
Oct 30, 2017
519
66
28
63
seattle
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Next comes the ancient Hebrew prophet, Ezekiel, who has a VISION of God! Did he see three beings/essences/natures/persons, or.....

Ez 1: 1- Now it came to pass in the thirtieth year, in the fourth [month], on the fifth of the month, as I was among the captives by the river Chebar, the heavens were opened, and I saw visions of God.
3- the word of Jehovah came expressly unto Ezekiel the priest, the son of Buzi, in the land of the Chaldeans by the river Chebar; and the hand of Jehovah was there upon him.
4-And I looked, and behold, a stormy wind came out of the north, a great cloud, and a fire infolding itself, and a brightness was about it, and out of the midst thereof as the look of glowing brass, out of the midst of the fire.
5- Also out of the midst thereof, the likeness of four living creatures....
26-And above the expanse that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone; and
upon the likeness of the throne was a likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it.
27-And I saw as the look of glowing brass, as the appearance of fire, within it round about; from the appearance of his loins and upward, and from the appearance of
his loins and downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about.
28-As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about.
This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of Jehovah. And when I saw, I fell on my face, and I heard a voice of one that spoke.
2:1- And he said unto me, Son of man, stand upon thy feet, and I will speak with thee.
2-And the spirit entered into me when he spoke unto me, and set me upon my feet; and I heard him that spoke unto me.

No Trinity.
A Nameless God-Ghost doesn't possess Ezekiel, but he is filled with God's Power.