The Identity of the Two Witnesses of Revelation

EndTimeWine · Nov 6, 2017

101G said:
I want to be clear here, is that according to the state (flesh) when this was written or is this (spirit).

To give witness: To give account of that which you have already seen. For him to prophesy AGAIN, among PEOPLES AND TONGUES AND NATIONS AND KINGDOMS, he would have to be in the flesh. Since he did not experience martyrdom at the time of the instituting of the first Church- he will at the last.
The Witnesses will be living in the flesh, breathing men. It will not be long before they are in the streets of Jerusalem prophesying. First the Woman clothed with the sun and the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars must bring forth the male child in the souls of the chosen, that is happening in the spirit now! How long that will take, only God knows, but it is at hand. John is on the earth and so is Enoch as we speak. They are hidden. We will not see them until it is time. But as the time draws near more and more things about them is revealed. They will arrive with a bang and go out with one too. This is an amazing time for believers. God is working things out for our good. And no matter how bad things look GOD IS STILL GOOD! This is what I believe. God Bless!

ScottA · Nov 6, 2017

EndTimeWine said:
To give witness: To give account of that which you have already seen. For him to prophesy AGAIN, among PEOPLES AND TONGUES AND NATIONS AND KINGDOMS, he would have to be in the flesh. Since he did not experience martyrdom at the time of the instituting of the first Church- he will at the last.
The Witnesses will be living in the flesh, breathing men. It will not be long before they are in the streets of Jerusalem prophesying. First the Woman clothed with the sun and the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars must bring forth the male child in the souls of the chosen, that is happening in the spirit now! How long that will take, only God knows, but it is at hand. John is on the earth and so is Enoch as we speak. They are hidden. We will not see them until it is time. But as the time draws near more and more things about them is revealed. They will arrive with a bang and go out with one too. This is an amazing time for believers. God is working things out for our good. And no matter how bad things look GOD IS STILL GOOD! This is what I believe. God Bless!

ETW,

Welcome.

There are many cautions against your take on the two witness and the woman.

First, these are not the times of the flesh, but rather of God pouring out His spirit upon all people.

And the greatest caution, is that we not join those who look "wherever the carcass is", for "there the eagles will be gathered together."

bbyrd009 · Nov 6, 2017

i can't help but be minded of the language of seance there, hmm

EndTimeWine · Nov 6, 2017

ScottA said:
ETW,

Welcome.

There are many cautions against your take on the two witness and the woman.

First, these are not the times of the flesh, but rather of God pouring out His spirit upon all people.

And the greatest caution, is that we not join those who look "wherever the carcass is", for "there the eagles will be gathered together."

Thanks for your input. Luke17:37 and Matthew 24:28 are not the sum of the whole end times. I know many use Matthew in particular to refer to the "Rapture" due to the false NIV version of these scriptural verses. There is nothing blessed concerning these verses"Rapture" wise that is. I understand what the sign of Rev.12 is. There is no caution with certainty . Thank you for your welcome. God Bless!

Helen · Nov 6, 2017

@EndTimeWine Very good post...I liked that. I had not ever thought of Enoch or John...

Excellent post...and "food for thought"....

101G · Nov 7, 2017

EndTimeWine said:
I believe the Two Witnesses are St. John and Enoch.

there is one thing wrong with one of your witness, check it out. Enoch died. scripture, Hebrews 11:5 "By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God". but in reading all of Hebrew 11 in context, this happen to Enoch. Hebrews 11:13 "These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth".

the key word to understand his NATURAL death is in the word "translated" which is the Greek word, G3346 μετατίθημι metatithemi (me-ta-tiy'-thee-miy) v.
1. to transfer.
2. (literally) to transport.
3. (by implication) to exchange.
4. (reflexively) to change sides.
5. (figuratively) to pervert.
[from G3326 and G5087]
KJV: carry over, change, remove, translate, turn
the same thing happen to Elijah. because he died a natural death. this is nothing new Philip was transported also see Acts 8:26-40.

so Enoch, as well as Elijah is eliminate. Moses according to the bible die also. so those three are out or unless one believes in reincarnation, and I hope you don't.

and saint John did not witness, but revealed the word as to who the two witness are.

Peace in Christ.

bbyrd009 · Nov 7, 2017

101G said:
Enoch died. scripture, Hebrews 11:5 "By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God". but in reading all of Hebrew 11 in context, this happen to Enoch. Hebrews 11:13 "These all died in faith,

5 By faith Enoch was taken away
so he did not experience death
7 By faith Noah
8 By faith Abraham
11 By faith even Sarah herself
13 These all died in faith

EndTimeWine · Nov 7, 2017

101G said:
there is one thing wrong with one of your witness, check it out. Enoch died. scripture, Hebrews 11:5 "By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God". but in reading all of Hebrew 11 in context, this happen to Enoch. Hebrews 11:13 "These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth".

the key word to understand his NATURAL death is in the word "translated" which is the Greek word, G3346 μετατίθημι metatithemi (me-ta-tiy'-thee-miy) v.
1. to transfer.
2. (literally) to transport.
3. (by implication) to exchange.
4. (reflexively) to change sides.
5. (figuratively) to pervert.
[from G3326 and G5087]
KJV: carry over, change, remove, translate, turn
the same thing happen to Elijah. because he died a natural death. this is nothing new Philip was transported also see Acts 8:26-40.

so Enoch, as well as Elijah is eliminate. Moses according to the bible die also. so those three are out or unless one believes in reincarnation, and I hope you don't.

and saint John did not witness, but revealed the word as to who the two witness are.

Peace in Christ.

This is a bunch of incomprehensible gibberish not founded upon truth. Enoch walked with God and was no more because he was taken. He was no more found among man of his time. He is one of the witnesses. I am not sure if this is a test of peoples knowledge when falsehood is put forth by either robots or ill informed or ill intended people. But if it smells and talks like garbage it is garbage!

bbyrd009 · Nov 7, 2017

EndTimeWine said:
He is one of the witnesses.

so you say, but you do not know

maybe you just fell into a trap

101G · Nov 7, 2017

EndTimeWine said:
This is a bunch of incomprehensible gibberish not founded upon truth. Enoch walked with God and was no more because he was taken. He was no more found among man of his time. He is one of the witnesses. I am not sure if this is a test of peoples knowledge when falsehood is put forth by either robots or ill informed or ill intended people. But if it smells and talks like garbage it is garbage!

well you need to look up words and their meaning and get understanding, like in translate".

101G · Nov 10, 2017

John the Baptist the Second Witness.
#1. Malachi 4:5 "Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: Malachi 4:6 "And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse”.
Direct reference,
Luke 1:15 "For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. Luke 1:16 "And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God. Luke 1:17 "And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

#2. Isaiah 40:3 "The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God”.
Direct reference,
Matthew 3:1 "In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,Matthew 3:2 "And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Matthew 3:3 "For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight”.

John 1:22 "Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself? John 1:23 "He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias. John 1:24 "And they which were sent were of the Pharisees”.

#3. Malachi 3:1 "Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts”.
Direct reference
Matthew 11:7 "And as they departed, Jesus began to say unto the multitudes concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind? Matthew 11:8 "But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? behold, they that wear soft clothing are in kings' houses. Matthew 11:9 "But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet. Matthew 11:10 "For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

Now the direct Reference: John 1:6 "There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.John 1:7 "The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.John 1:8 "He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

can't get any plainer.

EndTimeWine · Nov 10, 2017

101G said:
John the Baptist the Second Witness.
#1. Malachi 4:5 "Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: Malachi 4:6 "And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse”.
Direct reference,
Luke 1:15 "For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. Luke 1:16 "And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God. Luke 1:17 "And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

#2. Isaiah 40:3 "The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God”.
Direct reference,
Matthew 3:1 "In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,Matthew 3:2 "And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Matthew 3:3 "For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight”.

John 1:22 "Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself? John 1:23 "He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias. John 1:24 "And they which were sent were of the Pharisees”.

#3. Malachi 3:1 "Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts”.
Direct reference
Matthew 11:7 "And as they departed, Jesus began to say unto the multitudes concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind? Matthew 11:8 "But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? behold, they that wear soft clothing are in kings' houses. Matthew 11:9 "But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet. Matthew 11:10 "For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

Now the direct Reference: John 1:6 "There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.John 1:7 "The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.John 1:8 "He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

can't get any plainer.

John the Baptist is Elijah and Elijah has already come before the Great and Terrible day of the Lord- and has already restored all things. Matthew17:10 And the disciples asked Him, " Then why do the scribes say first Elijah must come?" HE replied, 'Elijah does come, and he is to restore all things; but I tell you that Elijah has already come, and they did to him whatever they pleased. So also the Son of man will suffer at their hands." THEN THE DISCIPLES UNDERSTOOD THAT HE WAS SPEAKING TO THEM OF JOHN THE BAPTIST.

Elijah has restored all things because as we now see in Matthew who he is ( John the Baptist) he instituted confession of sins and baptism for the cleansing away of the stain of original sin. This is what is meant by " Make straight or clear the way of the Lord". This allows for the entry into the soul of man, THE HOLY SPIRIT and the rebuilding of the TEMPLE of the LIVING God, (A Person). And the instituting of these "Rites" makes straight throughout time , (through application by the faithful)- the way of the Lord. God Bless!

bbyrd009 · Nov 10, 2017

EndTimeWine said:
( John the Baptist) he instituted confession of sins

Bible Search: confess sins OT

i do these on the fly a lot, so pls don't take this wrong ok, i don't know

EndTimeWine said:
rebuilding of the TEMPLE of the LIVING God, (A Person).

didn't Ezekiel do that already though?

101G · Nov 10, 2017

EndTimeWine said:
John the Baptist is Elijah and Elijah has already come before the Great and Terrible day of the Lord- and has already restored all things. Matthew17:10 And the disciples asked Him, " Then why do the scribes say first Elijah must come?" HE replied, 'Elijah does come, and he is to restore all things; but I tell you that Elijah has already come, and they did to him whatever they pleased. So also the Son of man will suffer at their hands." THEN THE DISCIPLES UNDERSTOOD THAT HE WAS SPEAKING TO THEM OF JOHN THE BAPTIST.

Elijah has restored all things because as we now see in Matthew who he is ( John the Baptist) he instituted confession of sins and baptism for the cleansing away of the stain of original sin. This is what is meant by " Make straight or clear the way of the Lord". This allows for the entry into the soul of man, THE HOLY SPIRIT and the rebuilding of the TEMPLE of the LIVING God, (A Person). And the instituting of these "Rites" makes straight throughout time , (through application by the faithful)- the way of the Lord. God Bless!

I believe I have said this already, John the Baptist is the Elijah to come. not the flesh and blood man Elijah, but in spirit of Elijah. and the other witness is the Lord Jesus the Christ.

EndTimeWine · Nov 10, 2017

bbyrd009 said:
Bible Search: confess sins OT

i do these on the fly a lot, so pls don't take this wrong ok, i don't know
didn't Ezekiel do that already though?

The rebuilding of temple of the Living God comes only through the Messiah. Christ returns us to our former estate, PERFECTION! There have been Holy men of God throughout the OT but Christ not only perfects our souls but our flesh as well. James 5:16 Therefore confess your sins to ONE ANOTHER and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects. Matthew 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age.

A disciple is not a teacher, but a follower of a teacher, leader or philosopher, Christ. An Apostle of Christ has graduated from a student of Christ to a teacher of Christ. There are only twelve apostles. They are the teachers of the Word. We must test all priest and pastors by their teachings and we ourselves must study all the OT and NT . The Rev12. sign and the reason for it being over Israel Sept.23, 2017 is to announce a new season. The season of the New Wine , this is the wine served at the end of the Wedding Feast. This is the best wine saved for last. The end of the Wedding Feast =
end of the Last Days. It is revealed in the Wedding Feast at Canaan. John2: 1-12. If you would like to discuss its meaning that would be great. When you understand who suggested it, we can then discuss the meaning of The Woman of Rev.12

This will allow us to keep this forum flowing with knowledge and food for thought. God Bless!

bbyrd009 · Nov 10, 2017

EndTimeWine said:
The Witnesses will be living in the flesh, breathing men.

i wouldn't get married to this opinion, wadr. Just sayin

EndTimeWine · Nov 10, 2017

101G said:
I believe I have said this already, John the Baptist is the Elijah to come. not the flesh and blood man Elijah, but in spirit of Elijah. and the other witness is the Lord Jesus the Christ.

You may have already said that, but you are incorrect. Scripture is very clear concerning John the Baptist being Elijah. It does not say the Spirit of Elijah was with John the baptist -but that Elijah ALREADY came and they did to him whatever they pleased. MATTHEW 17:12 (but I tell you that Elijah has ALREADY COME, and they did not know him BUT DID TO HIM WHATEVER THEY PLEASED). You can not do whatever you please with a person's spirit, (soul)- man can not touch the soul, Matthew 10:28 And do not fear those who KILL the body but cannot kill the soul:rather fear Him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
Elijah was in the flesh, he was John The Baptist. Somethings are as plain as the nose on ones face. Christ said what it is, it is no more or no less.
And it is understood that( CHRIST WAS SPEAKING TO THEM OF JOHN THE BAPTIST). You can interpret things as you want. Elijah has already come As Christ said. You are not arguing with me but with Him.

bbyrd009 · Nov 10, 2017

101G said:
and the other witness is the Lord Jesus the Christ.

how do you see that playing out, if we are the Body of Christ?

101G · Nov 10, 2017

EndTimeWine said:
You may have already said that, but you are incorrect. Scripture is very clear concerning John the Baptist being Elijah. It does not say the Spirit of Elijah was with John the baptist -but that Elijah ALREADY came and they did to him whatever they pleased. MATTHEW 17:12 (but I tell you that Elijah has ALREADY COME, and they did not know him BUT DID TO HIM WHATEVER THEY PLEASED). You can not do whatever you please with a person's spirit, (soul)- man can not touch the soul, Matthew 10:28 And do not fear those who KILL the body but cannot kill the soul:rather fear Him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
Elijah was in the flesh, he was John The Baptist. Somethings are as plain as the nose on ones face. Christ said what it is, it is no more or no less.
And it is understood that( CHRIST WAS SPEAKING TO THEM OF JOHN THE BAPTIST). You can interpret things as you want. Elijah has already come As Christ said. You are not arguing with me but with Him.

are you saying that John the Baptist is the actual flesh and blood Elijah, yes or no.

bbyrd009 · Nov 10, 2017

Jesus seemed comfortable enough saying so; imo this "actual flesh and blood" thing is prolly irrelevant? @101G

EndTimeWine said:
There are only twelve apostles.

i always thought so myself, but Paul is labelled an Apostle in the NT, i guess. I didn't Lex that to verify if it was translated correctly though, come to think of it...

The Identity of the Two Witnesses of Revelation

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