Church

bbyrd009 · Nov 15, 2017

BreadOfLife said:
Careful - your ignorance is showing again . . .

i'm wondering if you might agree to like one day a week or something lightening up, just a hair? I srsly doubt anyone here is out to get you, BoL.

BreadOfLife said:
yet do it with gentleness and respect

oops

bbyrd009 · Nov 15, 2017

BreadOfLife said:
...and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.

fwiw this 'stopping reading when you got the part you want to emphasize' always contains the seeds of its own destruction, BoL. Just sayin'. Good catching up with you

bbyrd009 · Nov 15, 2017

amadeus said:
Perhaps you are thinking of this young man who insisted on running even though he did not have a message to carry to the king:

"Then said Ahimaaz the son of Zadok yet again to Joab, But howsoever, let me, I pray thee, also run after Cushi. And Joab said, Wherefore wilt thou run, my son, seeing that thou hast no tidings ready?
But howsoever, said he, let me run. And he said unto him, Run. Then Ahimaaz ran by the way of the plain, and overran Cushi." II Sam 18:22-23

He even passed the other guy, but when he arrived he had nothing in his hands.

ah, that one has always kind of eluded me, ty. Somewhat clearer now. And yes, maybe a better way to perceive it than the Proverbs ref i guess.

BreadOfLife · Nov 15, 2017

DPMartin said:
how about "Mother of God" what's the excuse for the title, oh yea that's how it translates to English, it really doesn't mean mother of God, that's big fat lie if I've ever heard one. also the "Queen of Heaven" is also more mother Mary worship, carried out and promoted in the catholic ranks, and isn't contested by the church.

no other denomination that I can think of even the Lutherans idolize and worship the "Virgin Mary". which is also a erroneous theology. She was a virgin when she had Jesus but after that she was Joseph's wife respectfully. but catholic doctrine says otherwise, seems to be for the purpose of making her goddess like in their image of her. or to appease the public need of the day the doctrine was officially adopted of pagan worship of a goddess.

its been a long time since I've been told this by the catholic church but it was in a city under roman rule that was a mecca for a popular goddess of the day and that was the place coincidentally that the hearings for the adoption of the "Mother of God" theology toke place. don't hold me to when and where I don't remember. wasn't that important to me at the time.

No - I WILL hold you accountable because this is nothing but a big fat LIE.
You were never told this by the Catholic Church.

Your dishonest post starts with the charge that Catholics and Lutherans "worship" Mary. Nowhere does the Catholic Church teach that we are to worship anybody or anything other than God. Anything else is idolatry.

Catechism of the Catholic Church
Idolatry
2112 The first commandment condemns polytheism. It requires man neither to believe in, nor to venerate, other divinities than the one true God. Scripture constantly recalls this rejection of "idols, [of] silver and gold, the work of men's hands. They have mouths, but do not speak; eyes, but do not see." These empty idols make their worshippers empty: "Those who make them are like them; so are all who trust in them."42 God, however, is the "living God"43 who gives life and intervenes in history.

2113 Idolatry not only refers to false pagan worship. It remains a constant temptation to faith. Idolatry consists in divinizing what is not God. Man commits idolatry whenever he honors and reveres a creature in place of God, whether this be gods or demons (for example, satanism), power, pleasure, race, ancestors, the state, money, etc. Jesus says, "You cannot serve God and mammon."44 Many martyrs died for not adoring "the Beast"45 refusing even to simulate such worship. Idolatry rejects the unique Lordship of God; it is therefore incompatible with communion with God.46

2114 Human life finds its unity in the adoration of the one God. The commandment to worship the Lord alone integrates man and saves him from an endless disintegration. Idolatry is a perversion of man's innate religious sense. An idolater is someone who "transfers his indestructible notion of God to anything other than God."47

As for Mary being the Mother of God - YOU are under the false assumption that Catholics consider her to be the Mother of the Trinity. Mary is the Mother of Jesus, who is GOD., the 2nd Person of the Trinity.
Ergo, she IS the Mother of God.

As to Mary's Perpetual Virginity - NOWHERE does Scripture mention her having had other children.
Not ONE verse. In fact, Scripture does tell us that she had every intention of remaining a virgin (Luke 1:34).

Anything else?

BreadOfLife · Nov 15, 2017

bbyrd009 said:
fwiw this 'stopping reading when you got the part you want to emphasize' always contains the seeds of its own destruction, BoL. Just sayin'. Good catching up with you

As usual - your bizarre post makes no sense . . .

ScottA · Nov 15, 2017

BreadOfLife said:
And now you have blasphemed because the Holy spirit doesn't speak the heretical errors that you do.
It is ONLY you who is speaking . . .

So predictable..."Crucify him!"

bbyrd009 · Nov 15, 2017

BreadOfLife said:
As usual - your bizarre post makes no sense . . .

hmm, how bout Part B of both of those Scriptures though? Surely they make sense to you, yes?

BreadOfLife · Nov 15, 2017

ScottA said:
So predictable..."Crucify him!"

Your arrogance and spiritual pride are astounding.
Comparing yourself yo Christ while espousing heresy is nothing short of blasphemy . . .

BreadOfLife · Nov 15, 2017

bbyrd009 said:
hmm, how bout Part B of both of those Scriptures though? Surely they make sense to you, yes?

Which Scriptures?

bbyrd009 · Nov 15, 2017

ha, the ones roasting you right now lol

bbyrd009 said:
i'm wondering if you might agree to like one day a week or something lightening up, just a hair? I srsly doubt anyone here is out to get you, BoL.
oops

^

BreadOfLife · Nov 15, 2017

bbyrd009 said:
ha, the ones roasting you right now lol^

I'll stop exposing lies when I see the lies stop.
How's that?

Oh, ummmm . . . "LOL" . . .

DPMartin · Nov 15, 2017

BreadOfLife said:
No - I WILL hold you accountable because this is nothing but a big fat LIE.
You were never told this by the Catholic Church.

Your dishonest post starts with the charge that Catholics and Lutherans "worship" Mary. Nowhere does the Catholic Church teach that we are to worship anybody or anything other than God. Anything else is idolatry.

As for Mary being the Mother of God - YOU are under the false assumption that Catholics consider her to be the Mother of the Trinity. Mary is the Mother of Jesus, who is GOD., the 2nd Person of the Trinity.
Ergo, she IS the Mother of God.

As to Mary's Perpetual Virginity - NOWHERE does Scripture mention her having had other children.
Not ONE verse. In fact, Scripture does tell us that she had every intention of remaining a virgin (Luke 1:34).

Anything else?

breadoflife wake up and get real, you are not the first catholic to set foot on the planet, so don't talk to me as though your are the authority thereof, and that I've never heard or seen Catholics in action. I was raised in a catholic environment I know exactly what they teach and preach and I still visit a mass once an a long while and nothing has changed in the past 50 or more years I have been aware of the catholic church. don't bother posting catechism quotes very few follow it anyway, I'm not going to argue with you, I've paid my does there. if look hard enough I can probably find something in the catechism that has the complete opposite stand. what the catechism declares and what is practiced throughout the church are two way different things.

and so if you pray to someone to intercede as though they are to be the go between what are you doing. Jesus is the only Way but Catholics teach and practice otherwise. and know all about the justification for such. but its never practiced in the bible is it? why do Catholics do so then? (that's more a rhetorical)

again it seem you are entitle to beat everyone you can with Catholicism, thing is only Catholics would even care what the catechism says or don't say. if you actually believe what you are saying then maybe you should get on a site like catholic answers and see what they say. most of what I just said to you is what they tell the world and they are not the only catholic web site that goes bonkers on the Mother of God stuff.

Mother of God in the CCC second edition

467:

. For this reason the Council of Ephesus proclaimed in 431 that Mary truly became the Mother of God by the human conception of the Son of God in her womb: “Mother of God, not that the nature of theWord or his divinity received the beginning of its existence from the holy Virgin, but that, since the holy body, animated by a rational soul, which the Word of God united to himself according to the hypostasis, was born fromher, the Word is said to be born according to the flesh.”90

Hewas begotten from the Father before all ages as to his divinity and in these last days, for us and for our salvation, was born as to his humanity of the virgin Mary, the Mother of God.91

now here is where she is made out to be goddess like:

493 The Fathers of the Eastern tradition call the Mother of God “the All-Holy” (Panagia) and celebrate her as “free from any stain of sin, as though fashioned by the Holy Spirit and formed as a new creature.”138 By the grace of God Mary remained free of every personal sin her whole life long.

and here is some more goddess like dicriptions saying see is divine but not saying she's divine in nature by asoiation of her motherhood as divine nature:

Mary’s divine motherhood 495 Called in the Gospels “the mother of Jesus,” Mary is acclaimed by Elizabeth, at the prompting of the Spirit and even before the birth of her son, as “the mother of my Lord.”144 In fact, the One whom she conceived as man by the Holy Spirit, who truly became her Son according to the flesh, was none other than the Father’s eternal Son, the second person of the Holy Trinity. Hence the Church confesses that Mary is truly “Mother of God” (Theotokos).145

508 From among the descendants of Eve, God chose the Virgin Mary to be the mother of his Son. “Full of grace,” Mary is “the most excellent fruit of redemption” (SC103): from the first instant of her conception, she was totally preserved from the stain of original sin and she remained pure from all personal sin throughout her life. 509 Mary is truly “Mother of God” since she is the mother of the eternal Son of God made man, who is God himself.

I have to stop here there is plenty more where that came from. sorry bud God is forever and has no mother. again was she a virgin and the mother of the Son of man who is Jesus yes. but not Mother of God. and yes your only recourse to that is, that's how it translates but that isn't what it means of which I then say, if that was true then surly the church would translate it to what it means, they are not stupid are they. so in truth they have translated it to say what they are content for it to mean.

not to mention the "hail Mary" all prayer and supplication in the bible is toward the Living God. not the case with the catholic church is it breadoflife?

oh yea the case of virgin after the birth of Christ. I'm to lazy to look up Virgin Mary in the catechism to show that its taught that she was a virgin through out her life, which you have just confirmed that Catholics do think she was a virgin always.

Mat 12:46 While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him. 47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.

Mar_6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

and no they didn't mean kinsman as in sons of Abraham

Luk_14:12 Then said he also to him that bade him, When thou makest a dinner or a supper, call not thy friends, nor thy brethren, neither thy kinsmen, nor thy rich neighbours; lest they also bid thee again, and a recompence be made thee.

Luk_21:16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.

note the same verses uses both words therefore the scripture's distinction between the two.

so unless joseph married someone else and had children to her of which there is no evidence or documentation, but there is evidence and documentation that he had brothers and sisters in the flesh as understood by the average person. why do Catholics disregard the truth of this and go with their goddess like "Mother of God"?

oh yea, without any scripture stating or supporting this, we have the queen of heaven theology:

966 “Finally the Immaculate Virgin, preserved free from all stain of original sin, when the course of her earthly life was finished, was taken up body and soul into heavenly glory, and exalted by the Lord as Queen over all things, so that she might be the more fully conformed to her Son, the Lord of lords and conqueror of sin and death.”508 The Assumption of the Blessed Virgin is a singular participation in her Son’s Resurrection and an anticipation of the resurrection of other Christians: In giving birth you kept your virginity; in your Dormition you did not leave the world, O Mother of God, but were joined to the source of Life. You conceived the living God and, by your prayers, will deliver our souls from death.509

that is so self explanatory of the worship of her its ridiculous and this is in the CCC. WOW. there's plenty more but I want to eat supper sometime to day, your problem is breadoflife you spout off to much and everything about the church is easy peasy to find.

Jesus is the only that has been in there flesh that is and has been without sin, or sinless.

oh yea the the person i said was canonized I mentioned before wasn't canonized but there is the veneration and beatification process involved, I do believe, in which he is declared by the church as a martyr, "English martyr" he is acknowledge by the church as to be a martyr. I am sure I read somewhere that either Pope Pius XII or Pope Pius XI affirmed him as a martyr, I just don't remember where and the man was father Henry Granett who was associated to bombing attempt of the King and Parliament during King James' day, and then hanged.

101G · Nov 15, 2017

BreadOfLife said:
What about the Godhead is an "erroneous" doctrine?

the three persons

bbyrd009 · Nov 15, 2017

BreadOfLife said:
I'll stop exposing lies when I see the lies stop.
How's that?

Oh, ummmm . . . "LOL" . . .

ah, but can you be said to be seeing, if you cannot read to the end of your own quoted verses? If you stop reading in the middle, and ignore the ends when they are pointed out to you, are you seeing, or not seeing? See?

wasn't meaning to be coy earlier, more like trying to spare your feelings lol

it's still only like 3 cycles back, we could back up and start over if you like.
Post #273, 4 clickbacks from here. Pick it up at "yet" or "and" in the respective vv. Have a nice evening, gotta run.

BreadOfLife · Nov 15, 2017

DPMartin said:
breadoflife wake up and get real, you are not the first catholic to set foot on the planet, so don't talk to me as though your are the authority thereof, and that I've never heard or seen Catholics in action. I was raised in a catholic environment I know exactly what they teach and preach and I still visit a mass once an a long while and nothing has changed in the past 50 or more years I have been aware of the catholic church. don't bother posting catechism quotes very few follow it anyway, I'm not going to argue with you, I've paid my does there. if look hard enough I can probably find something in the catechism that has the complete opposite stand. what the catechism declares and what is practiced throughout the church are two way different things.

and so if you pray to someone to intercede as though they are to be the go between what are you doing. Jesus is the only Way but Catholics teach and practice otherwise. and know all about the justification for such. but its never practiced in the bible is it? why do Catholics do so then? (that's more a rhetorical)

again it seem you are entitle to beat everyone you can with Catholicism, thing is only Catholics would even care what the catechism says or don't say. if you actually believe what you are saying then maybe you should get on a site like catholic answers and see what they say. most of what I just said to you is what they tell the world and they are not the only catholic web site that goes bonkers on the Mother of God stuff.

Mother of God in the CCC second edition

467:

. For this reason the Council of Ephesus proclaimed in 431 that Mary truly became the Mother of God by the human conception of the Son of God in her womb: “Mother of God, not that the nature of theWord or his divinity received the beginning of its existence from the holy Virgin, but that, since the holy body, animated by a rational soul, which the Word of God united to himself according to the hypostasis, was born fromher, the Word is said to be born according to the flesh.”90

Hewas begotten from the Father before all ages as to his divinity and in these last days, for us and for our salvation, was born as to his humanity of the virgin Mary, the Mother of God.91

now here is where she is made out to be goddess like:

493 The Fathers of the Eastern tradition call the Mother of God “the All-Holy” (Panagia) and celebrate her as “free from any stain of sin, as though fashioned by the Holy Spirit and formed as a new creature.”138 By the grace of God Mary remained free of every personal sin her whole life long.

and here is some more goddess like dicriptions saying see is divine but not saying she's divine in nature by asoiation of her motherhood as divine nature:

Mary’s divine motherhood 495 Called in the Gospels “the mother of Jesus,” Mary is acclaimed by Elizabeth, at the prompting of the Spirit and even before the birth of her son, as “the mother of my Lord.”144 In fact, the One whom she conceived as man by the Holy Spirit, who truly became her Son according to the flesh, was none other than the Father’s eternal Son, the second person of the Holy Trinity. Hence the Church confesses that Mary is truly “Mother of God” (Theotokos).145

508 From among the descendants of Eve, God chose the Virgin Mary to be the mother of his Son. “Full of grace,” Mary is “the most excellent fruit of redemption” (SC103): from the first instant of her conception, she was totally preserved from the stain of original sin and she remained pure from all personal sin throughout her life. 509 Mary is truly “Mother of God” since she is the mother of the eternal Son of God made man, who is God himself.

I have to stop here there is plenty more where that came from. sorry bud God is forever and has no mother. again was she a virgin and the mother of the Son of man who is Jesus yes. but not Mother of God. and yes your only recourse to that is, that's how it translates but that isn't what it means of which I then say, if that was true then surly the church would translate it to what it means, they are not stupid are they. so in truth they have translated it to say what they are content for it to mean.

not to mention the "hail Mary" all prayer and supplication in the bible is toward the Living God. not the case with the catholic church is it breadoflife?

oh yea the case of virgin after the birth of Christ. I'm to lazy to look up Virgin Mary in the catechism to show that its taught that she was a virgin through out her life, which you have just confirmed that Catholics do think she was a virgin always.

Mat 12:46 While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him. 47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.

Mar_6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

and no they didn't mean kinsman as in sons of Abraham

Luk_14:12 Then said he also to him that bade him, When thou makest a dinner or a supper, call not thy friends, nor thy brethren, neither thy kinsmen, nor thy rich neighbours; lest they also bid thee again, and a recompence be made thee.

Luk_21:16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.

note the same verses uses both words therefore the scripture's distinction between the two.

so unless joseph married someone else and had children to her of which there is no evidence or documentation, but there is evidence and documentation that he had brothers and sisters in the flesh as understood by the average person. why do Catholics disregard the truth of this and go with their goddess like "Mother of God"?

oh yea, without any scripture stating or supporting this, we have the queen of heaven theology:

Well – your rant is as verbose as it is inaccurate.

Let’s start with your moronic claim that the Catechism contradicts itself. When you can PROVE this – then show me. Until then, I would suggest that you stop spreading falsehoods because it’s a direct violation of God’s Commandment against bearing FALSE witness.

Secondly – your rejection of intercession is as asinine as it is hypocritical.

It always amazes me when anti-Catholics like you claim that we are NOT to seek intercessory prayer from the saints in Heaven because Jesus is our “only” intercessor – even though Scripture NEVER says this. Then, you turn around and ask those here on earth to pray for you – making them intercessors. 1 Tim 2:5 says that Jesus is out only MEDIATOR. This is precisely what the Church has always taught because ONLY Jesus can reconcile God and humanity.

HOWEVER, this does NOT mean that we are NOT to pray for each other or ask each other to pray for us. The saints in Heaven have been made perfect in Christ. James 5:16 says that the prayers of a RIGHTEOUS person are very powerful – so who better to ask than somebody who is now truly righteous?

Rev. 5:8 shows the Elders in heaven bringing our prayers before God and Rev. 8:3-4 speaks of the Angels in heaven doing the same thing.

So much for YOUR dishonest condemnation of intercessory prayer . . .

Thirdly – your rejection of the Divinity of Christ is deplorable for somebody who claims to be a Christian. Jesus unites to Himself 2 natures – FULLY Human and FULLY Divine – and these 2 natures are indivisible. This is a basic tenet of Christianity.

Mary didn’t give birth to a “nature”. She gave Birth to the God-Man, Jesus.
Therefore, she is the Mother of God – as Scripture emphatically tells us (Luke 1:43).

Finally – The Bible NEVER speaks of the Protestant notion that Mary had other children. As a matter of fact – the Protestant attempts to show that those named “brethren” are the siblings of Jesus – are later squashed by Scripture who attributes them to being the children of the other Mary standing near the cross.

Bottom line here – when you can provide PROOF of Mary having “other” children – prove it.
When you can provide PROOF that Mary is NOT the Mother of Jesus, who is God - prove it.
When you can provide Scriptural PROOF that those in Heaven are NO LONGER part of the Body of Christ and cannot be asked for prayer - prove it.

Until then – I suggest you do your homework . . .

amadeus · Nov 15, 2017

BreadOfLife said:
I'll stop exposing lies when I see the lies stop.
How's that?

Oh, ummmm . . . "LOL" . . .

While there are men who still walk where their flesh leads... even in part... there will be liars. That includes all who have not overcome the world as Jesus overcame the world. That I know about, I have not met even one.

BreadOfLife · Nov 15, 2017

101G said:
the three persons

This is THE most basic tenet of Christianity:

The Trinity, as Shown in Scripture
Genesis 1:26
Then God said, "Let US make mankind in OUR image, in OUR likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

Matt. 28:19
"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,"

John 15:26
“When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me.

1 Cor. 12:4-6
"Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. And there are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons."

2 Cor. 13:14,
"The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all."

1 John 5:7
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these THREE are ONE.

The Father is God
Ephesians 4:6
One God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

Psalm 68:5
Father of the fatherless and protector of widows is God in his holy habitation.

Malachi 2:10
Have we not all one Father? Has not one God created us? Why then are we faithless to one another, profaning the covenant of our fathers?

Isaiah 63:16
For you are our Father, though Abraham does not know us, and Israel does not acknowledge us; you, O Lord, are our Father, our Redeemer from of old is your name.

2 Corinthians 1:3-4
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort, who comforts us in all our affliction, so that we may be able to comfort those who are in any affliction, with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God.

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

John 8:41
You are doing the works your father did.” They said to him, “We were not born of sexual immorality. We have one Father—even God.”

1 Thessalonians 3:13
So that he may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before our God and Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus.

The Son is God
Isaiah 7:14
All right then, the Lord himself will give you the sign. Look! The virgin will conceive a child! She will give birth to a son and will call him Immanuel (which means 'God is with us').

Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the word was God.

John 1:3
ALL things were made by HIM (Jesus); and without him was not ANY thing made that was made.

John 8:58
Jesus said unto them, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM.”

John 10:30
“I and the Father are one."

John 15:9
Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?

John 20:28
And Thomas answered and said unto him [Jesus], “My Lord and my God!”

Acts 5:3-4
Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to GOD.

2 Corinthians 4:4
...lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Philippians 2:6
...Who [Jesus], being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Colossians 2:9
...For in him [Jesus] dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.

1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Hebrews 1:8
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Titus 2:13
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ

The Holy Spirit is God
John 14:16-18
And I will pray the Father, and He will give you *ANOTHER Helper, that He may abide with you forever -- the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

*This word in Greek means, “another of the SAME kind.”

Luke 12:10
And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.

2 Corinthians 3:17
Now the Lord IS the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that JESUS CHRIST IS IN YOU?

John 14:23
Jesus replied: "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him and WE will come to him and make OUR home with him.

Acts 5:3-4
But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself? "While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to GOD."

BreadOfLife · Nov 15, 2017

bbyrd009 said:
ah, but can you be said to be seeing, if you cannot read to the end of your own quoted verses? If you stop reading in the middle, and ignore the ends when they are pointed out to you, are you seeing, or not seeing? See?

wasn't meaning to be coy earlier, more like trying to spare your feelings lol

it's still only like 3 cycles back, we could back up and start over if you like.
Post #273, 4 clickbacks from here. Pick it up at "yet" or "and" in the respective vv. Have a nice evening, gotta run.

Your whole premise is that the truth doesn't need defending - but Scripture doesn't agree with that position.

bbyrd009 · Nov 15, 2017

BreadOfLife said:
Your whole premise is that the truth doesn't need defending - but Scripture doesn't agree with that position.

in some places It may not appear to, yes. While in others we are plainly told that the truth always comes to light eventually. So it becomes a matter of perspective, i guess. Those who are able to...see the entire vv will have a different perspective from the person who...apparently cannot? Something like that.

So regardless of if i have that part exactly right or not, the nature of "truth" is revealed to be kind of a moving target, at least as soon as the import of the complete vv you quoted comes into focus. So it is at least fair to say that you are instrumental in revealing A truth, even if it is not always the same "truth" that you perceive, as in this case, imo.

As re-reading post #273 should make clear.

BreadOfLife · Nov 15, 2017

bbyrd009 said:
in some places It may not appear to, yes. While in others we are plainly told that the truth always comes to light eventually. So it becomes a matter of perspective, i guess. Those who are able to...see the entire vv will have a different perspective from the person who...apparently cannot? Something like that.

So regardless of if i have that part exactly right or not, the nature of "truth" is revealed to be kind of a moving target, at least as soon as the import of the complete vv you quoted comes into focus. So it is at least fair to say that you are instrumental in revealing A truth, even if it is not always the same "truth" that you perceive, as in this case, imo

Not really sure what you mean, but it sounds like relativism - "your truth vs. my truth".
Truth is truth - no matter who believes it. And it DOES need to be defended when people are actively working to hide it behind a veil of lies or discredit it before people who don't know any better.

It's or a matter of digging it out of the mud of lies than defending it.

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