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101G

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Your analogy of an actor taking on different roles is classic Modalism, the heresy that YOU adhere to.
He is ONE Person taking on THREE roles.

The Trinity is THREE distinct Persons - each with a distinct role.

Jesus, the Son appeared to Saul on the Road to Damascus:
Acts 9:3-5
On his journey, as he was nearing Damascus, a light from the sky suddenly flashed around him.
He fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?”
He said, “Who are you, sir?” The reply came, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting.
I did not ask you that, who spoke to Paul in mute here. I asked who chose Paul. now in ENGLISH once more was it the Father who chose Paul as his minister or was it the Son. your answer
 

101G

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trying to stall, well let me help you out. Acts 9:15 "But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel" so who chose Paul was it the Father, who chose Paul for his Son, or was it the Son who chose Paul
 

BreadOfLife

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trying to stall, well let me help you out. Acts 9:15 "But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel" so who chose Paul was it the Father, who chose Paul for his Son, or was it the Son who chose Paul
I did not ask you that, who spoke to Paul in mute here. I asked who chose Paul. now in ENGLISH once more was it the Father who chose Paul as his minister or was it the Son. your answer
Jesus spoke to Saul - not the Father.
However, in His role in the Trinity, the Son submits to the Father.

The Son submits to the Father and the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son.
 

BreadOfLife

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Now - how about addressing the other THIRTY-FOUR verses about the Trinity that I presented, hmmmm??
 

101G

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Time up.
this is a Classic example of a Christian who cannot give a straight answer to a straight question. instead of saying I don’t know, (they think it’s embarrassing, which it’s not), but still they avoid and stall making themselves ashamed and now a real embarrassment not only unto themselves, but also to the Lord.

bol, You dodged my question so many time, it’s a shame. but to show you how easy it is to answer, it's The Son, the Lord Jesus, who is the Father, SAME PERSON. now, you want to know how? he is the Diversified Father in flesh. there are three accounts to this one story. Supportive scripture, Acts 22:14 "And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth”. let’s see who exactly is the God of our Father? Scripture, Acts 26:14 "And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest. But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee”. make here is G4400 προχειρίζομαι procheirizomai (pro-chei-riy'-zo-mai) v.
1. to handle for oneself in advance.
2. (figuratively) to purpose.
[middle voice from G4253 and a derivative of G5495]
KJV: choose, make

It’s the SAME word for chosen in Acts 22:14. "And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth". what do this mean? answer, The Lord Jesus the Son is not a distinct person from the Father, he’s the same Person only diversified in flesh. The Lord Jesus is the God of the fathers. Malachi 2:10a "Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us?”. that’s right the Lord Jesus is the Father as Spirit, diversified in Flesh he’s the Son, That’s strike three. It was the Lord Jesus God almighty the ONE and ONLY TRUE GOD.

see how easy that was?.

now to your next questions and scriptures.
 

BreadOfLife

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I will when you answer the who chose Paul question, if you will answer Father or Son..
I already answered you:
Jesus spoke to Saul - not the Father.
However, in His role in the Trinity, the Son submits to the Father's will.


Now - how about the other THIRTY-FOUR verses I presented that prove the Trinity??
 

BreadOfLife

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Time up.
this is a Classic example of a Christian who cannot give a straight answer to a straight question. instead of saying I don’t know, (they think it’s embarrassing, which it’s not), but still they avoid and stall making themselves ashamed and now a real embarrassment not only unto themselves, but also to the Lord.

bol, You dodged my question so many time, it’s a shame. but to show you how easy it is to answer, it's The Son, the Lord Jesus, who is the Father, SAME PERSON. now, you want to know how? he is the Diversified Father in flesh. there are three accounts to this one story. Supportive scripture, Acts 22:14 "And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth”. let’s see who exactly is the God of our Father? Scripture, Acts 26:14 "And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest. But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee”. make here is G4400 προχειρίζομαι procheirizomai (pro-chei-riy'-zo-mai) v.
1. to handle for oneself in advance.
2. (figuratively) to purpose.
[middle voice from G4253 and a derivative of G5495]
KJV: choose, make

It’s the SAME word for chosen in Acts 22:14. "And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth". what do this mean? answer, The Lord Jesus the Son is not a distinct person from the Father, he’s the same Person only diversified in flesh. The Lord Jesus is the God of the fathers. Malachi 2:10a "Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us?”. that’s right the Lord Jesus is the Father as Spirit, diversified in Flesh he’s the Son, That’s strike three. It was the Lord Jesus God almighty the ONE and ONLY TRUE GOD.

see how easy that was?.

now to your next questions and scriptures.
Yup - and I ALREADY answered that question. Read my last 2 posts, Einstein . . .
 

101G

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LOL, the Son Jesus is the Father diversified in flesh. SAME PERSON. so your distinct persons have left the building.

now bol who is the God of the fathers? the Lord JESUS. :D so your doctrine is false as three left shoes. :cool:
 

101G

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I was going to save the best for the Last. but since I have already exposed your distinct persons. let's finish exposing them all.

U said, "the Trinity, as Shown in Scripture" well let's see.
Genesis 1:26 Then God said, "Let US make mankind in OUR image, in OUR likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."
I go Straight to the point and don't stall, or hide. Romans 5:14 "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come”.
See that word “figure” it's another word for image, as in Gen 1:26... (smile), which our lord Jesus is in FLESH that was to Come. The US and OUR here is the IMAGE, the FASHION, the FIGURE that was to come. John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God”. and the word was MADE “FLESH” see John 1:14. how easy was that. He is to come is the share/Diversity, or the Offspring to come. THE LAST ADAM. so the WE, the US is the Lord Jesus to come in flesh. see how easy it is to answer a question.
 

101G

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U posted, 1 Thessalonians 3:11 "Now God himself and our Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, direct our way unto you.
God here, the Spirit, the HOLY Spirit, is identified as Father, Diversified without flesh, “AND” the Lord Jesus Christ Diversified/Shared in flesh (the Son). Oh so easy. Not two distinct Person only one diversified. now just for your edification, Psalms 110:1 "A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool". here LORD, God, Spirit, the Holy Spirit is Diversified (without flesh) Father. my Lord, the Spirit Diversified (in flesh) Son. it's so easy.
 

101G

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1 Corinthians 12:4-6 "Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all".
The Lord (Son) is that Spirit God, called (Father), just like you said, BOTH "Spirit of the Lord" and "Holy Spirit" in Acts 5 the SAME PERSON. scripture, 2 Corinthians 3:17 "Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty".

Must I go on?. because all will be answered by Diversity. God shared in Flesh

but there is one you did not list that I want to address. the one where the Lord Jesus is being baptized by John. the Lord Jesus is the diversity, and the Holy Spirit is the result of that diversity. but what about the voice in Heaven? answer Jeremiah 23:23 & 24 "Am I a God at hand, saith the LORD, and not a God afar off? Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD". there he is in heave as well as on Earth, because he fill both, so he can speak from Heaven and be diversified on earth at the SAME time. what a mighty God we serve. see how easy it is to answer. no stalling.

now if you want to finish any other question, diversity will answer it. but if you have a special one just posted it and diversity will also answer it.

see the trinity is like the old testament covenant, on it's way out. Diversity is now, today, which is called today (that one for you Scott) and tommorrow.
 

BreadOfLife

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LOL, the Son Jesus is the Father diversified in flesh. SAME PERSON. so your distinct persons have left the building.
When you finally address the 35 verses I presented instead of running away - you will see just how lost you are.
now bol who is the God of the fathers? the Lord JESUS. so your doctrine is false as three left shoes.
The God of the Fathers is the Triune God.
Now - how about answering MY 35 verses??
 

BreadOfLife

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I was going to save the best for the Last. but since I have already exposed your distinct persons. let's finish exposing them all.

U said, "the Trinity, as Shown in Scripture" well let's see.
Genesis 1:26 Then God said, "Let US make mankind in OUR image, in OUR likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."
I go Straight to the point and don't stall, or hide. Romans 5:14 "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come”.
See that word “figure” it's another word for image, as in Gen 1:26... (smile), which our lord Jesus is in FLESH that was to Come. The US and OUR here is the IMAGE, the FASHION, the FIGURE that was to come. John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God”. and the word was MADE “FLESH” see John 1:14. how easy was that. He is to come is the share/Diversity, or the Offspring to come. THE LAST ADAM. so the WE, the US is the Lord Jesus to come in flesh. see how easy it is to answer a question.
Uh-huh, and the Son unites to Himself TWO natures: Fully man and Fully God.
This is why Jesus refers to Himself as BOTH Son of "Man" and Son of "God".

It's ALL there in the 35 verses that you keep running away from . . .
 

amadeus

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This passage illustrates the Unity of the Trinity.
The Trinity is not 3 separate entities. God is revealed in 3 distinct Persons - in ONE Triune Godhead.

Here, in John 17, Jesus is praying for the unity of His Church, so that they will remain ONE as He and the Father are ONE. This doesn't exclude the Holy Spirit.

Are you "One" with the Body of Christ? Are you also "One" with your spouse"? Saying that you are "One" with your spouse doesn't negate the fact that you are also "One" with the Body of Christ - and vice versa.
To me the verse certainly could support a trinity, but it could likewise support four in one, or five in one. My own trouble is not is in the insistence that there must be three in one and that to not believe in that would mean a person could not be save.

If it were as important as you [and others, both Catholic and non-Catholic] make it out to be, then I believe that Jesus would have mentioned it specifically. The two greatest commandments if kept should make the difference that God wants to see in His people, His followers. The emphasis throughout scripture is always on there being only one God. If it equally important that the One God consist of three parts or three persons in one, there should be a similar emphasis throughout scripture on that. There is not.
 

BreadOfLife

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U posted, 1 Thessalonians 3:11 "Now God himself and our Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, direct our way unto you.
God here, the Spirit, the HOLY Spirit, is identified as Father, Diversified without flesh, “AND” the Lord Jesus Christ Diversified/Shared in flesh (the Son). Oh so easy. Not two distinct Person only one diversified. now just for your edification, Psalms 110:1 "A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool". here LORD, God, Spirit, the Holy Spirit is Diversified (without flesh) Father. my Lord, the Spirit Diversified (in flesh) Son. it's so easy.
Your "convertible" Jesus doesn't exist. He is not a part time Holy Spirit and part time Father. Jesus is the Son.
This is what I meant when I said that every heresy begins with the misconception of the nature of God.
 

BreadOfLife

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To me the verse certainly could support a trinity, but it could likewise support four in one, or five in one. My own trouble is not is in the insistence that there must be three in one and that to not believe in that would mean a person could not be save.

If it were as important as you [and others, both Catholic and non-Catholic] make it out to be, then I believe that Jesus would have mentioned it specifically. The two greatest commandments if kept should make the difference that God wants to see in His people, His followers. The emphasis throughout scripture is always on there being only one God. If it equally important that the One God consist of three parts or three persons in one, there should be a similar emphasis throughout scripture on that. There is not.
The two "greatest" Commandments are impossible for a person to keep if they don't know WHO God is.
That's why I said that every heresy begins with the misconception of the nature of God.
 
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amadeus

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First of all - if you can't come to a knowledge of the very nature of God - then you can't be a follower of Christ.
Then where does that leave Moses and the apostle Paul?

"And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live." Exodus 33:20

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." I Cor 13:12

How much knowledge of the very nature of God can we have when we cannot see His face at all or cannot see it clearly.

Consider David words:

"When thou saidst, Seek ye my face; my heart said unto thee, Thy face, LORD, will I seek." Psalm 27:8

He was certainly seeking the Lord's face as we all should be doing, but if we have not yet seen it clearly where are we then with God? Not lost surely if our hearts are right.



Virtually EVERY heresy begins with a misconception of the nature of God. the Trinity is indeed THE most basic tenet of Christianity - or whatever name YOU want to give it.

And what of those who are seeking sincerely but do not see what you see? Do not these words speak of those favorably?

"And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.
And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us." Luke 9:49-50


created man.
Man fell, so Father sent His Son to redeem him.
The Son was sacrificed for the propitiation of man's sin, rose from the dead and ascended back to the Father.
The Holy Spirit was sent to guide the penitent to salvation.

If you reject this, then you are something - but you aren't a Christian.

I believe God created man. I believe the Father sent His Son to redeem man. I believe also that the Holy Spirit was sent to lead man. These beliefs do not say anything to me about each the three of them being God or being part of God or of being three in one in God.
 
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amadeus

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The two "greatest" Commandments are impossible for a person to keep if they don't know WHO God is.
That's why I said that every heresy begins with the misconception of the nature of God.
I do know who God is, but all of the details of His nature are not revealed to me. From what I have seen and heard and read all of those details have not been revealed to anyone else either. You would called it heresy for someone to not accept what you say or what your church says and embrace it as being the absolute truth? There really is something more important than that.

I find it in the sermon on the mount of Jesus [Matthew chapters 1 through 5 and in I Corinthians chapter 13. I do not find a trinity in those chapters. I find God. The Truth is His Son. How well do we know that Truth? The answer remains "through a glass darkly". That we are the approach to the "face to face" that Moses failed to see in Exodus 33 and that Apostle Paul had not yet seen in I Corinthians 13 does not mean we are lost and neither have you shown that anyone who cannot see the trinity is lost.
Thank you for communicating your position on this.
 
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