what does the Lord God value?

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DPMartin

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@DPMartin No such thing as unconditional love!
So...how is that working in your life?
Do you not love your children when they are naughty?
Do you not love your wife unless she obeys you?
as bbyrd009 like to say...Yikes!! o_O


hey you are more then welcome to show me in scripture where the Lord God says His love is unconditional or for that matter where any writer in and of the bible states God's love is unconditional. just because God is Love doesn't mean He is what you might think love is.

anyway for example when Jesus started preaching the Gospel after He was baptized by John what was His statement? wasn't it:


Mat_4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.


isn't that a condition? a command? a requirement?

and after that isn't it true one must believe, trust, hence be faithful? that's a requirement and a condition isn't it?


it's not true, if your children tried to kill you, I guess you'd still love them right? invite them to live with you correct? and children have killed their parents. what if your spouse intentional destroyed your life, or beat you constantly, and really didn't care at all for you, and betrayed you for a long time? you'd say that's ok here's my check book correct?

and if you don't trust some one you don't love them, hence God requiring your trust and belief. your view is totally unrealistic.

God's relationship with Israel tells you what God loves and who He loves and why He loves. Israel is still His people but it was His Promise to Abraham (who He did Love) that keeps it that way. not because He loves them, though yes I am sure there are Jews He has a relationship with.
 
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Helen

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As we all well know. Actions speak louder than words.
So you choose not to say whether you only love your wife if she obey you...and your children as long as they are never naughty.

Oh well...we each must be persuaded in our own heart and mind.
The God I know is not the one that you paint here.

I will pray for you brother, that you get a revelation of the heart and love of God.
bless you.
 
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mjrhealth

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this is about man's corruption of God's glory in what is God's from man. it don't even make any sense what so ever. again your opinion of God's love is contrary to what God says, isn't it?
no it is who God is, and as long as teh bible is your reference of who God is, there will be much confusion. God is Love He wont change just because man or a book demands it.
 
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Invisibilis

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then you say there is no hope because the true definition of hope is expectation....
About hope, it is a desired expectation, yet on an unconditional stance all hope leads to contentment. One can be content will all things by accepting all conditions, hence, unconditionality. Philippians 4:11-13.
...you haven't shown not one scripture where it says God's love is unconditional. as far as I know you won't find it....
There are many verses about unconditional love. God sacrificed his only Son for us. Love your enemies.
1 Corinthians 13:4-7
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

But I feel that you already know these verses. So what is causing you to be so cynical?
... and you've only told me your opinion of what you think love ought to be.
Have you got a better, fruitful, opinion?
 
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DPMartin

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As we all well know. Actions speak louder than words.
So you choose not to say whether you only love your wife if she obey you...and your children as long as they are never naughty.

Oh well...we each must be persuaded in our own heart and mind.
The God I know is not the one that you paint here.

I will pray for you brother, that you get a revelation of the heart and love of God.
bless you.


what's the matter bygrace the truth a pill to hard for you to swallow? I did respond to your statement, apparently its not what you want


#21

if your children tried to kill you, I guess you'd still love them right? invite them to live with you correct? and children have killed their parents. what if your spouse intentional destroyed your life, or beat you constantly, and really didn't care at all for you, and betrayed you for a long time? you'd say that's ok here's my check book correct?

what's next bygrace cover your ears and shout na na na.
 

DPMartin

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About hope, it is a desired expectation, yet on an unconditional stance all hope leads to contentment. One can be content will all things by accepting all conditions, hence, unconditionality. Philippians 4:11-13.

there's not one thing here about hope:


Php 4:9 Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you. 10 But I rejoiced in the Lord greatly, that now at the last your care of me hath flourished again; wherein ye were also careful, but ye lacked opportunity. 11 Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content. 12 I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need. 13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me. 14 Notwithstanding ye have well done, that ye did communicate with my affliction.

Paul speaks of what he is able to live through without disappointment hence content to experience circumstances comfortable or suffering because of the Lord's strength, and that would be because he is serving the cause in Christ, and content to suffer such things for that reason. where can you possibly get hope in this? there is plenty of scripture on hope how come you didn't quote them? or could that be because it would prove you incorrect?

There are many verses about unconditional love.

where! where does it say in scripture that God's love is unconditional?

God sacrificed his only Son for us. Love your enemies.
1 Corinthians 13:4-7
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

But I feel that you already know these verses. So what is causing you to be so cynical?

Have you got a better, fruitful, opinion?


it is true that Charity is all that Paul says it is:


1Co 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. 4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, 5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; 6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; 7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. 8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

but these things of God are not given unconditionally. God doesn't give His Word unconditionally and one is received into His Love through His Word, which is a condition. again such as repent, faithful till the end, so on and so forth. God isn't a fool who irrationally does and gives, especially that which He values, as you say He does.

just because God's love is Great doesn't mean its without conditions.

oh yea love your enemy, lets put that in context:

Mat 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

hence to treat others as you would be treated or love thy neighbor as thyself, even if they are your enemy. where is the unconditional love fall in here? the taught way back in Moses' day that a stranger within there land is to be treated the same by law as they. if you have a prisoner of war shouldn't he be treated as you would want to be treated if the shoe was on the other foot? again you don't have love someone unconditionally to treat them in a up-right manor. actually its usually because none loves the Ways of the Lord more, in this case.
 

DPMartin

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bottom line Lady's you have to be trusted by the lover to be loved, or its no love at all. therefore just what has the Lord entrusted you with?
 

VictoryinJesus

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it's not true, if your children tried to kill you, I guess you'd still love them right? invite them to live with you correct? and children have killed their parents. what if your spouse intentional destroyed your life, or beat you constantly, and really didn't care at all for you, and betrayed you for a long time? you'd say that's ok here's my check book correct?

I haven't been following the thread closely but your words to ByGrace caught my attention. Buck if you want to but it is in situations as you stated above that a believer gets to show God. We can go around knocking on doors sharing the gospel with those that are no where near ready but it is times like you listed above that are real opportunities. God wants our enemies and those that harm us to receive His truth (which is Christ). Ask Stephen; he would tell you. Paul. Jesus.

In those opportunities you listed above we speak truth. The Spirit gives the words. He reveals what is done in secret and what He wants to brought to the light. We don't love someone that attacks and hurts us because of our goodness or that we are suckers to be trampled...but because God forgave us. We don't tolerate the behavior but speak out against it even if it makes the attacks worse. We hold firm to truth that this person may see God. We view them as a possible child of God and step aside for HIS Judgement and vengeance and correction not because we want the person to pay but because God cultivates impossible ground that it may take seed cast upon it. WE Love our enemies because He first loved us when we were an enemy. It is not unconditional love...it is unconditional forgiveness and God gives it.

1 Corinthians 4:13 KJV
[13] Being defamed, we intreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day.

"We intreat"

You attack ByGrace(laughing and mocking her soft heart) but she is one of the few here that displays any true fruit of love and mercy in her words.

Romans 12:19-21 KJV
[19] Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. [20] Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. [21] Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.



Romans 13:1-4 KJV
[1] Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. [2] Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. [3] For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: [4] For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
 
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DPMartin

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I haven't been following the thread closely but your words to ByGrace caught my attention. Buck if you want to but it is in situations as you stated above that a believer gets to show God. We can go around knocking on doors sharing the gospel with those that are no where near ready but it is times like you listed above that are real opportunities. God wants our enemies and those that harm us to receive His truth (which is Christ). Ask Stephen; he would tell you. Paul. Jesus.

In those opportunities you listed above we speak truth. The Spirit gives the words. He reveals what is done in secret and what He wants to brought to the light. We don't love someone that attacks and hurts us because of our goodness or that we are suckers to be trampled...but because God forgave us. We don't tolerate the behavior but speak out against it even if it makes the attacks worse. We hold firm to truth that this person may see God. We view them as a possible child of God and step aside for HIS Judgement and vengeance and correction not because we want the person to pay but because God cultivates impossible ground that it may take seed cast upon it. WE Love our enemies because He first loved us when we were an enemy. It is not unconditional love...it is unconditional forgiveness and God gives it.

1 Corinthians 4:13 KJV
[13] Being defamed, we intreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day.

"We intreat"

You attack ByGrace(laughing and mocking her soft heart) but she is one of the few here that displays any true fruit of love and mercy in her words.

Romans 12:19-21 KJV
[19] Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. [20] Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. [21] Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.



Romans 13:1-4 KJV
[1] Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. [2] Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. [3] For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: [4] For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.


am sorry isn't I who started this thread? who throw the first punch? so to speak.

that "I will pray for you" talk, you know as well as I do, isn't genuine, just another way of saying your wrong with out committing to any proof of it. if I burst some one's bubble, good, the Truth sets you free, of which John says love thy brother in Truth. not in some superficial feel good delusion of reality.

so what are you trying to tell me here, "feel goods" are good, that any call center operator will do to get their paycheck, or a sale, and if the truth is harsh that's bad? are you the judge of what is good now? its not about how you feel about it, its about the Truth of God.
 
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DPMartin

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"For God so loved the world..."

i mean, what else do you want here lol


where's the text that states God's love is unconditional, what you are saying here is what you want "for God so loved the world" to mean, hence your opinion not the Word of God.

so you are saying that faithful isn't a condition? or repent, or God's desired response to His Word isn't a condition?
 

bbyrd009

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where's the text that states God's love is unconditional, what you are saying here is what you want "for God so loved the world" to mean, hence your opinion not the Word of God.
ha actually imo God is nuts to do that, so whereas you might have assumed an opinion was being asserted there before, really one was being solicited from you, and now you know mine.
so you are saying that faithful isn't a condition? or repent, or God's desired response to His Word isn't a condition?
as far as the love of God is concerned, no. As far as reaping what one sows, completely different story.

i would say that a parent can be sorry that a child chose a certain path, and still love the child unconditionally, regardless of the pov that a child might be patricidal or whatever, which imo really does not work as any analogue of a sinner's relationship with God. A sinner might wish that there was no God, but obviously cannot kill God.
 
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bbyrd009

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where's the text that states God's love is unconditional, what you are saying here is what you want "for God so loved the world" to mean, hence your opinion not the Word of God.

so you are saying that faithful isn't a condition? or repent, or God's desired response to His Word isn't a condition?
i'd like to make a statement here, strictly for effect, if i may:

i am really quite pissed off at God for putting me here.

and i already realized about 50 years ago that i was going to have to forgive my earthly dad before i improved any to speak of.
And i don't know for sure, but i am detecting possibly some unresolved anger toward God, which imo explains why an Angry, Vengeful God is so enduringly attractive to so many.

So i would ask how your relationship with your dad is, first; as a rhetorical question, if you prefer.
 
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bbyrd009

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that demonstrably does not apply if one is rich or powerful enough? i don't think so, wadr.
if i gave my shirt to a guy i caught stealing my coat, i would be breaking this Rule of Law, see. i would be termed an "aider and abetter."

Imo it would be like expecting religious observance to get me to a closer walk with God.
Sounds great, seems logical, and completely fails; just like the law does.
 
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VictoryinJesus

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am sorry isn't I who started this thread? who throw the first punch? so to speak.

that "I will pray for you" talk, you know as well as I do, isn't genuine, just another way of saying your wrong with out committing to any proof of it. if I burst some one's bubble, good, the Truth sets you free, of which John says love thy brother in Truth. not in some superficial feel good delusion of reality.

so what are you trying to tell me here, "feel goods" are good, that any call center operator will do to get their paycheck, or a sale, and if the truth is harsh that's bad? are you the judge of what is good now? its not about how you feel about it, its about the Truth of God.

True, truth is the best way even if it steps on feelings to promote change. God's truth cuts. But, it is still also true that God offers unconditional forgiveness. Somehow your thread turned to "unconditional love". You told me once to not apologize for giving an honest reply(at least honest from my selective POV). I can relate to what you said about people that try to destroy you. And believe it or not: God can foster love toward them regardless of how they treat you. Once again I will use Stephen as an example: he spoke hard truth and they stoned him...yet he still displayed love toward those that hurled rocks at him. Is it possible to love someone that attempts to kill you?

A question for you: why does the OT speak of crushing your enemies; yet the NT only speaks of repeated forgiveness even when forgiveness is not deserved?
 
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Invisibilis

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there's not one thing here about hope:
...where can you possibly get hope in this? there is plenty of scripture on hope how come you didn't quote them? or could that be because it would prove you incorrect?
...where! where does it say in scripture that God's love is unconditional?
It is clear that the word unconditional / unreserved is a threat to those who rely on being in control (self-willed).

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

I am sorry that you cannot, in these matters, discern the Word too deeply, for it takes faith (unreserved / unconditionally) to do so.
Otherwise, all you can see is the surface, such as not seeing the word unconditional, though it is described as such by other words and actions.
 
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mjrhealth

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bottom line Lady's you have to be trusted by the lover to be loved, or its no love at all. therefore just what has the Lord entrusted you with?
So dont you trust Him is it you that requires Him to do something to prove his love, was not Jesus enough.