What does Our Savior consider Idolatry

amadeus · Nov 20, 2017

BreadOfLife said:
It's what most people would refer to as an "oxymoron."

Most people would not know what "oxymoron" means.

BreadOfLife · Nov 20, 2017

amadeus said:
Most people would not know what "oxymoron" means.

I know - that's why I explained it as a contradiction in terms.

bbyrd009 · Nov 21, 2017

BreadOfLife said:
Prove that the Deuterocanonicals are Scripture?

no

BreadOfLife said:
I already HAVE.

i guess it is a poor defendant who retains himself as his lawyer...especially while sitting as judge.

BreadOfLife said:
- I have presented over 150 direct quotes, references and allusions to these Books in the New Testament, proving that Jesus and the NT wrioters studied from them.
- I have shown that these Books were part of the OPEN Jewish Canon that existed prior to the 2nd century.
- I have presented evidence against the false idea that Jerome rejected these Books as Scripture.

you are presenting evidence right now, BoL; only it is not the evidence you imagine. Fwiw i honestly would reiterate them, if i thought you were even still reading, ok; and anyone else who cares already knows (that wasn't the Q i asked, i plainly stated i thot Apocrypha was inspired, etcetc)

BreadOfLife said:
Any court of Law would have already proclaimed these arguments as proof - especially in light of the impotent arguments against it.

you affirm for me that i have no business here, and i can only witness for the ones who have already stated that this is really a non issue. The Apocrypha is respected and widely reproduced and disseminated, not that i find any compelling concepts exclusive to It anyway

bbyrd009 · Nov 21, 2017

BreadOfLife said:
Terms like "Apocryphal" and "pseudoepigraphical" as they pertain to the Deuterocanonicals are simply Protestant denial.

yes, and if you don't set that gavel down and get out of that chair, the judge is going to be really upset with you when He comes back, BoL. just sayin ok.

bbyrd009 · Nov 21, 2017

BreadOfLife said:
Prayers for the dead

no witness i can think of. pseudo-epigraphical imo

BreadOfLife said:
How about where Jesus accepts the inspiration of Maccabees as He analogizes the Hanukkah consecration (John 10:36) to His own consecration to the Father in 1 Macc. 4:36?
How about where Paul (Eph. 6:13-17) got the idea for the "Armor of God" (Wis. 5:17-20)?
How about Paul (Heb 11:35)teaches about the martyrdom of the mother and her sons (2 Macc. 7:1-42)?

imo all of these are pseudo-epigraphy and without Witness, except the Armor ref which is Witnessed in more than one place OT even i think. your catholic is showing iow. gotta run

amadeus · Nov 21, 2017

bbyrd009 said:
no
i guess it is a poor defendant who retains himself as his lawyer...especially while sitting as judge.

you are presenting evidence right now, BoL; only it is not the evidence you imagine. Fwiw i honestly would reiterate them, if i thought you were even still reading, ok; and anyone else who cares already knows (that wasn't the Q i asked, i plainly stated i thot Apocrypha was inspired, etcetc)
you affirm for me that i have no business here, and i can only witness for the ones who have already stated that this is really a non issue.

The Apocrypha is respected and widely reproduced and disseminated, not that i find any compelling concepts exclusive to It anyway

Indeed, if it has merit due to the inspiration from God for someone to write it, should it matter whether or not it is declared by anyone as officially as the Word of God or a written copy of what God said?

How many thousands do that for the Book of Mormon and how many millions do that for the Koran? How many who are not among them are swayed by the official status given to them? If the Apocrypha be inspired by God, who can nay say it? We should consider the words of Gamaliel who was NOT a follower of Jesus:

"And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:
But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.?" Acts 5:38-39

All of us really should pay more attention to the point of view our friend @mjrhealth on what is the Bible is and what it is not. Without a connection with God what good is any book that anyone has written in the eyes of God?

bbyrd009 · Nov 21, 2017

amadeus said:
Most people would not know what "oxymoron" means.

seriously? most English speakers, who would come to a forum? man, i am sure an idiot then, i guess.

amadeus · Nov 21, 2017

bbyrd009 said:
seriously? most English speakers, who would come to a forum? man, i am sure an idiot then, i guess.

Seriously! I don't know how serious you are about this.

"Oxymoron" is one of those words I learned on a Christian Internet forum. Another one was "hermeneutics".

Helen · Nov 21, 2017

FHII said:
I can't speak for protestants, but I don't think that they (Protestants) really care all that much about your questions or the Apochrypha. They're probably pretty much at peace over it.

I found your statement interesting...and I hope this is not going off topic.
But, I have always thought ( but according to your post,) wrongly...that if we are not Roman Catholics we are therefore Protestants!! I've always thought that..
1) So if you are not either...what are you?
2) And what makes us/you,- "not a protestant" ?
Intrigued

I have never ever thought of it....just presumed.
Anyone can chip in and answer this...

bbyrd009 · Nov 21, 2017

amadeus said:
Seriously! I don't know how serious you are about this.

i have some mild Asperger's; makes it hard for me to relate sometimes. Well, really only when i have to listen or talk, that's all.

bbyrd009 · Nov 21, 2017

"ByGrace" said:
I found your statement interesting...and I hope this is not going off topic.
But, I have always thought ( but according to your post,) wrongly...that if we are not Roman Catholics we are therefore Protestants!! I've always thought that..
1) So if you are not either...what are you?
2) And what makes us/you,- "not a protestant" ?
Intrigued
I have never ever thought of it....just presumed.
Anyone can chip in and answer this...

wow, good Q imo; i am not even sure how the RCC persisted after Luther? Were the 95 theses ever even addressed by the RCC?

FHII · Nov 21, 2017

"ByGrace" said:
I found your statement interesting...and I hope this is not going off topic.
But, I have always thought ( but according to your post,) wrongly...that if we are not Roman Catholics we are therefore Protestants!! I've always thought that..
1) So if you are not either...what are you?
2) And what makes us/you,- "not a protestant" ?
Intrigued
I have never ever thought of it....just presumed.
Anyone can chip in and answer this...

Hi ByGrace,

First off there were no Protestants or Catholics in the Bible or in Jesus' day. So why would I want to be one today?

Second, "Protestant" is somewhat of an acknowledgement to the Catholic Church. The Catholic CHurch believes that Protestants are rebellious children, but Catholics nontheless.

They are protesting the Catholic Church and wanted to reform the Catholic Church. I want to do neither. I say let them be what they are.

Last, way too many traditions that Protestants have are carried over from Catholicism... I'd just assume to throw it all out and go back to the way Jesus, Peter and Paul intended it to be.

Helen · Nov 21, 2017

FHII said:
Hi ByGrace,

First off there were no Protestants or Catholics in the Bible or in Jesus' day. So why would I want to be one today?

Second, "Protestant" is somewhat of an acknowledgement to the Catholic Church. The Catholic CHurch believes that Protestants are rebellious children, but Catholics nontheless.

They are protesting the Catholic Church and wanted to reform the Catholic Church. I want to do neither. I say let them be what they are.

Last, way too many traditions that Protestants have are carried over from Catholicism... I'd just assume to throw it all out and go back to the way Jesus, Peter and Paul intended it to be.

Thanks for that

But if you have to go into hospital they as "Religion"?
I have always put protestant or nondenominational...I thought that was the default for Christians which are not Catholics.

FHII · Nov 21, 2017

"ByGrace" said:
Thanks for that

But if you have to go into hospital they as "Religion"?
I have always put protestant or nondenominational...I thought that was the default for Christians which are not Catholics.

Last time I was in the hospital I listed Christian-nondenominational.

bbyrd009 · Nov 21, 2017

"ByGrace" said:
But if you have to go into hospital they as "Religion"?

take the hint, imo.

Helen · Nov 21, 2017

bbyrd009 said:
take the hint, imo.

Oh yes, I know what you mean...I just wanted to make an illustration...
Hospitals are places where we go to die or catch germs right?

That said...one surgery I had to have saved my physical life...

bbyrd009 · Nov 21, 2017

"ByGrace" said:
Oh yes, I know what you mean...I just wanted to make an illustration...
Hospitals are places where we go to die or catch germs right?
That said...one surgery I had to have saved my physical life...

ha well that is what the Drs told you anyway. i mean, was it surgery to repair from an accident? Like, a collision?

Drs assured my bestie that he should take multiple courses of antibiotics over the years, too. Now he is bedridden, with a colostomy bag, and is ready to listen. now.

Helen · Nov 21, 2017

bbyrd009 said:
ha well that is what the Drs told you anyway. i mean, was it surgery to repair from an accident? Like, a collision?

Drs assured my bestie that he should take multiple courses of antibiotics over the years, too. Now he is bedridden, with a colostomy bag, and is ready to listen. now.

No, I didn't need a brain surgeon to tell me...I knew I would die.

I had Acalasia , not sure if you know what it is?
It is quite rare ...
It is where the oesophagus closes and wont open...and whatever the thing is called that takes the food from the mouth to the stomach..( and though the oesophagus) to the stomach. Gullet ? Stopped squeezing the food down the pipe. They still have no idea why it happens, but now and again it happens.
My surgeon said he only has about 4 per year.
In the end I couldn't swallow anything solid at all, then shortly after that, even liquid would go down either.
I had to sleep sitting up, because sometimes I would choke if I laid.
Obviously I lost loads of weight quickly....
He got me in for surgery as soon as he could because I was starving to death, he almost had to put a feeding tube in..but thankfully I got surgery before that was needed.
So, no, I cannot rule out totally the need for a hospital ...I was very thankful.
Obviously those things can only be prepared..I now have a straight drop, from mouth to stomach. ( the oesophagus cut and loosened) Some things like a chunk of steak or a big wedge of bread I still can't swallow, it gets caught.
I chew everything really well

But I never think of it any more, it was a great relief.

bbyrd009 · Nov 21, 2017

"ByGrace" said:
No, I didn't need a brain surgeon to tell me...I knew I would die.

I had Acalasia , not sure if you know what it is?
It is quite rare ...
It is where the oesophagus closes and wont open...and whatever the thing is called that takes the food from the mouth to the stomach..( and though the oesophagus) to the stomach. Gullet ? Stopped squeezing the food down the pipe. They still have no idea why it happens, but now and again it happens.
My surgeon said he only has about 4 per year.
In the end I couldn't swallow anything solid at all, then shortly after that, even liquid would go down either.
I had to sleep sitting up, because sometimes I would choke if I laid.
Obviously I lost loads of weight quickly....
He got me in for surgery as soon as he could because I was starving to death, he almost had to put a feeding tube in..but thankfully I got surgery before that was needed.
So, no, I cannot rule out totally the need for a hospital ...I was very thankful.
Obviously those things can only be prepared..I now have a straight drop, from mouth to stomach. ( the oesophagus cut and loosened) Some things like a chunk of steak or a big wedge of bread I still can't swallow, it gets caught.
I chew everything really well
But I never think of it any more, it was a great relief.

well, you remind me that no matter how solid a single perspective seems, there is usually more to the story. I resist because this seems to put God out of the equation of when/whether you might live or die, but then again.

Helen · Nov 21, 2017

bbyrd009 said:
well, you remind me that no matter how solid a single perspective seems, there is usually more to the story. I resist because this seems to put God out of the equation of when/whether you might live or die, but then again.

Oh I know...who knows if God would just have wanted to 'take us home'?
But, knowing who God is, I am sure He could have taken me home without starving me to death and dehydrating me!!

Obviously we had all been praying, but healing did not happen.
Just wait until you are older young man...and see how well you do with "just believing God."
It 'sounds' good...we all believed that when we were young and healthy.

What does Our Savior consider Idolatry

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