"Pentecostal" good and bad.

(kriss;34597)
Christ never taught it the apostles never taught it you may only pray in this Wakka but Tallman and others like him can not accept that one can be saved without it and they misinterpret/ or literally can not understand scripture accept through filter of mutter he thinks half the bible is about it. and in my opinion that is proof of a familiar spirit because if one is blind to the Word and puts a condition on holy spirit and or proof of same for salvation that is against Gods Word there is a serious problem. NOW WHERE DID GOD EVER SAY THIS Any one that makes a man made doctrine a condition of baptism of spirit is in deep trouble and needs to order the familiar spirits away from them in the name of Christ.Except where there is a pencostal movement this practice is unheard of except in America. Even the men that started it left because they found it to be to easy to slip into evil. It started good and then progressed into something else. My question would be how many of you that speak this could tell the difference between God and a familiar spirit?sense you have no idea what you are saying good feelings do not nessarily mean its God. It made people feel good to worship pagon gods thats why they did it and were convinced their gods were real. I do not mean to offened anyone but I will not comprimise Gods Word. Even if it offends someIt is the only big problem I have with Pentecostals is this teachings that corrupt the gifts. Most are good christain folk
I never said it was a requirement Kriss. It makes it much more easier to pray. And when you pray, you don't babble. The babbling is just the subconscious making noises, but you still talk to God through your mind and spirit. When praying like this, you're not distracted as easily as conventional prayer. Kriss, you're getting that scripture mixed up. Nothing in the Bible is against this. It's just prayer.

I agree with Wakka on speaking in tongues. It's biblical, anyone else reads the Bible other way, ok for me. Speaking and praying in tongues is a straight link to God. But it does not affect on salvation, of course not. You can call me crazy nut, then I'm God's crazy nut or whatever, but I have not even heard that speaking in tongues is not biblical.

(setfree;34532)
I have attended a church that considered themselves Bapticostal. They believe in the gifts of the spirit, and move in them in there church. They also believe that once saved you are indwelt with the spirit. But the filling of the spirit is on going. The spirit comes once!They believe in once saved always saved. They do speak in tongues, prophecy, cast out demons etc.
I believe in all this EXCEPT the last sentence. I don't believe that tongues are necessary for today. They served their purpose at Pentecost as a sign to unbelievers and nothing more.

I have known some Pentecostals that are offensive and some that are not. Some tend to set themselves apart due to the no make-up and wearing dresses all of the time. I don't think we should be known like that as a Christian. I think it should come out in how we act, treat others, etc. That being said, I will never forget my neighborhood friend when I was a teenager. She invited me to church, and I went. It was a wild experience. They actually formed a line and ran around the church! It was good exercise, but I'm not sure what the purpose was -spiritually speaking. One day she was telling me about something she told her boyfriend and in passing said,"Yeah, you know how all other religions are going to hell...". I was so hurt and so offended. I made her camp out on that a while. I asked her if she really believed that about me, why hadn't she ever tried to convert me. She couldn't answer. On the other hand, I work with a dear Pentecostal lady, who saw me upset one day and came to my aid. She put her arms around me and prayed for me. She told me that if we, as the body of Christ weren't there for each other, who would be? She is so kind-hearted. So, I think it has a lot to do with the individual church's teachings/mentality. It also has a lot to do with the spiritual growth of the person.

(TallMan;34678)
Th thing is, the church at Pentecost is the one He set up!!How can people claim to be fixing their eyes on Jesus while at the same tome believing in a church unlike that one?
Tallman, even baptists will go to heaven. Yeah they don't believe in prayer "babbling", but they believe in Jesus Christ and that He is Lord. Remember, we're all one church, and Christ is the leader of it.

(His By Grace;34728)
I have known some Pentecostals that are offensive and some that are not. Some tend to set themselves apart due to the no make-up and wearing dresses all of the time. I don't think we should be known like that as a Christian.
What's wrong with dressing formal?1. It's respectable to God.2. It cleans up your image.3. Your body is God's temple.4. Glorify God in everything you do.I try to always wear only shirts with a collar. Next I have to get use to tucking my shirts in my pants, instead of wearing them outside.

When 1 Corinthians 12:10,& v 30, Mentions tongues, this is not talking about our prayer language, Note v 10, "Divers Kinds" That is always followed by an interpretaion. Paul said in 1 Cor 14; 26, "When you come together,All have a tongue" . There are at least 7 manifestations of tongues in the new Testament.Jesus said, "The believer shall speak with new tongues". Is Jesus telling lies? The trouble with people is, They believe what they want, instead of the Bible,

If anyone who believes that tongues are not for today, and we don't need them anymore, Please give at least two Scriptures to back up your belief. "Out of the mouth of two or three witnesses"Please don't give 1 Corinthians 13: 8, Because v 10, says "When that which is perfect is come". According to the Greek "Perfect" means, The perfect one [Jesus] bringing in the completion of the age, If we are still here, so are tongues besides, if tongues have ceased, then so has knowledge, that mean's no one can get saved anymore, because they don't have knowledge. The Bible says, "Knowledge shall increase in the last days"

(Wakka;34591)
Kriss, it is just prayer in spirit. The popular culture of Christianity likes to call it Tongues. I've seen real firm believers speak in tongues. Including Pastors from the Soviet Union that had gone through serious trials. Last week I went to see a guest preacher from Ukraine. He owns a church, and God has blessed him and his family so much. His son from an early age healed (through God of course) him from a serious fever that bed ridden him. And that same child also healed his mother when she was having a stroke.Please don't go into assumptions about this.Also, this unknown tongue thing isn't a requirement. But it helps, a lot!
BUT in Pentecostal doctrine, speaking in Tongue is a REQUIREMENT for SALVATION. They do not believe that believers are saved by Faith even they don't speak tongue. Another problem is they consider believers do not have Holy Spirit if they don't speak tongue. I do not accept this doctrine.I think I am free to express my own belief. Do I?

i dont know of any wels Lutheran pastor who say's he can speak in the tongue speaking that the pentecostals support.many wels pastor are given the gift by God to be able to learn and speak in many other known languages beside english though. I also do not know of any of our wels pastors who claim to be Gods chanel for healing some one.they believe every Christian is a priest before God and they are not any more special than any other Christian .Any christian can ask their heavenly father for such things as healings and God will grant them according to what he sees as best for them in eternity.I do think the above claims of some pentecostal preachers plant a wedge a great divide between their people and Lutheran people and other christians pastors and their people as well.lutheran christians are taught not to think they are better Christians than Pentecostal Christians.and if the Pentecostals Christians want to think they are better Christians than Lutherans. Well i dont think lutherans would have much of a problem with that after they concider st pauls words. Jesus came into the world to save sinners. of whom i am the worst !Gods blessings on pentecostals first than us lutherans because the whole christian church will never be able to run out of them there simply are to many to even comprehend. Gods blessingsP.S. i would like to remind every Christians that God must have been very pleased to give his Holy Spirit down through the ages to Christians who were not pentecostal or their were not be any christians to day ,even pentecostal ones. Since of course the pentecostal movment is realitivly knew on the scene of Christianity.

Well, not everyone gets tongues, and with the tongues comes interpreters, too! And Paul says that if you don't have an interpreter than those with tongues are refrain from sharing their gift during church anyway! But I agree with the point that you don't have to speak in tongues to receive the Holy Spirit. I don't speak in tongues but I certainly have the Holy Spirit inside of me. It's amazing, my confidence is completely founded in Christ!

(stlizzy;34754)
Well, not everyone gets tongues, and with the tongues comes interpreters, too! And Paul says that if you don't have an interpreter than those with tongues are refrain from sharing their gift during church anyway! But I agree with the point that you don't have to speak in tongues to receive the Holy Spirit. I don't speak in tongues but I certainly have the Holy Spirit inside of me. It's amazing, my confidence is completely founded in Christ!
But don't you wonder just a bit if this gift is still for people of today and if so why don't conservative christian church pastors ever receive it?Why do only liberal church's receive it . some marks of Liberal churches are they most often allow women to be preachers to men or lead bible studies in which men also attend or have their say and way by out voting men.every thing the bible says for a women to do as wrong. another mark a church is liberal if they allow their people to pick and choose if they want to believe in evolution or gay agendas or abortion.liberal churches also let their people pick and choose what miracles of the bible they want to believe in.

(horsecamp;34755)
But don't you wonder just a bit if this gift is still for people of today and if so why don't conservative christian church pastors ever receive it?Why do only liberal church's receive it . some marks of Liberal churches are they most often allow women to be preachers to men or lead bible studies in which men also attend or have their say and way by out voting men.every thing the bible says for a women to do as wrong. another mark a church is liberal if they allow their people to pick and choose if they want to believe in evolution or gay agendas or abortion.liberal churches also let their people pick and choose what miracles of the bible they want to believe in.
I do not wonder who God gives gifts to in the sense that I cannot know myself just from an appearance. I can, rather, carefully search scripture and be keenly aware of all that is said and done by those who claim such gifts as tongues. It is not something to be proud of because you have it in the sense that it makes you closer to God or a better Christian than someone else. If you have such a gift it is only by God that you do, and to Him be all of the Glory for it. I should be afraid to even ask God for the gift of tongues and to be open about it, because it is a very important and difficult task to teach, to minister, to deliver God's word. It is absolute holy and not to be taken lightly.Can I say if "conservative pastors" never receive the gifts of tongues? No, I cannot, for I do not know all of them. Again, no spiritual gift should be a source of pride- and if it is I would highly doubt what is being done with gift. (Though, it is true that every good and perfect thing comes from God). To say that only "liberal churches" receive is to assume that what is being portrayed is from God. Paul states that God loves order and harmony and desires that in His church. A church that is in a constant state of disarray would seem to contradict this statement.Why are women not to be leaders in the church, that is, they are not to have authoritative positions over men? Because the men are to take on this role and set Godly examples, because this is the way God has made the roles of men and women to be. Women need to see men in Godly authority, it is something innate that God has placed in them. Christ over the church, Church over the Men, Men over the Women. Does this mean women are less than men? No. Does this mean they cannot serve? No. Does this mean women can have no authority? No, for we all receive authority through the Holy Spirit. I don't think we should pick and choose anything... I think we should carefully study the Bible and always be ready for God to show a passage or teachings in a different light again and again and again. We shouldn't make up our OWN minds about anything, but lean constantly and lovingly on the wisdom and power of our Heavenly Father.

Hey, Wakka, please don't misquote me. I didn't say anything was wrong with getting dressed up. All I said was the no make-up and wearing dresses all the time wasn't a neccesity to prove you're a Christian. You shouldn't use that as a crutch. Now, how in the world did you get out of that statement that I think anything is wrong with dressing up and looking your best? My friends would die laughing if they read your post!!! I have been known to pride myself too much on how I look. It is something that I have struggled with for years. I have always watched my weight. I never go ANYWHERE without make-up (I might scare someone!). I love, love, love to match things like clothing and accessories!!! I love themes in cothing and accessories.I used to have a hundred shoes. Vanity of vanities-chasing after the wind! I have had to pray for deliverance from temptation in these areas. I have come a long way, but I'm not there yet. That's why it is sooooo funny that you took what I said and misinterpreted it. LOL to the nines!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(stlizzy;34756)
I do not wonder who God gives gifts to in the sense that I cannot know myself just from an appearance. I can, rather, carefully search scripture and be keenly aware of all that is said and done by those who claim such gifts as tongues. It is not something to be proud of because you have it in the sense that it makes you closer to God or a better Christian than someone else. If you have such a gift it is only by God that you do, and to Him be all of the Glory for it. I should be afraid to even ask God for the gift of tongues and to be open about it, because it is a very important and difficult task to teach, to minister, to deliver God's word. It is absolute holy and not to be taken lightly.Can I say if "conservative pastors" never receive the gifts of tongues? No, I cannot, for I do not know all of them. Again, no spiritual gift should be a source of pride- and if it is I would highly doubt what is being done with gift. (Though, it is true that every good and perfect thing comes from God). To say that only "liberal churches" receive is to assume that what is being portrayed is from God. Paul states that God loves order and harmony and desires that in His church. A church that is in a constant state of disarray would seem to contradict this statement.Why are women not to be leaders in the church, that is, they are not to have authoritative positions over men? Because the men are to take on this role and set Godly examples, because this is the way God has made the roles of men and women to be. Women need to see men in Godly authority, it is something innate that God has placed in them. Christ over the church, Church over the Men, Men over the Women. Does this mean women are less than men? No. Does this mean they cannot serve? No. Does this mean women can have no authority? No, for we all receive authority through the Holy Spirit. I don't think we should pick and choose anything... I think we should carefully study the Bible and always be ready for God to show a passage or teachings in a different light again and again and again. We shouldn't make up our OWN minds about anything, but lean constantly and lovingly on the wisdom and power of our Heavenly Father.
I am impressed you answer has very much Godly wisdom.in your search through holy scripture did you find the gift of tongues given to the apostles was it taught or coached to them by men or women or was it a instant gift of the holy Ghost?and if so why do some pentecostal groups that i am familar with have to teach it to other's?even the most famous pentecostals i have known have had to coach others how to do it.and thats seems confusing .unless of course scripture shows us it is not a immediate gift of the holy ghost.Than i could see the coaching and teaching of it.and what about pentecostal holy laughter barking like dogs and things of that nature we have seen on tv by the more famous pentecostal preachers are these things also taugt in scripture?it all seems very strange to a confessional Lutheran . perhaps you could explain some of these things? Because to tell you the truth .I would much rather learn about pentecostalism from you at this time than famous pentecostal preachers who barks like dog's in church. It would be just to hard for me to take them seriously . Thanks

(TallMan;34780)
I wish some people would exercise self-control and stop using this thread to re-hash their opinions about tongues which have been aired before and stick to the topic.There are other areas that have hardly been dealt with:-Forms of worship - are they culturally of scripturally derived?Emotion vs no emotionWords of knowledge, special anointingsBinding & loosing spiritsDemons in & out of the church, in houses, over citiesDoes the Pentecostal church lose or gain what it offers by blending with other churches . . .etc
Oh yes. We are right to talk about tongue under this thread (Pentecostal Church).Tongue is Pentecostal. Pentecostal is Tongue (unknown language).If you don't speak Tongue, you are not Pentecostal.If you are Pentecostal you must speak Tongue.This is reality in Pentecostal Church. Discussing about Tongue is right at this thread.