"Pentecostal" good and bad.

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Wakka

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Jun 4, 2007
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I figure it is scripturally derived. And the emotion comes from the presence of the Holy Spirit. When you're filled with the Holy Spirit, don't you want to sing or something to praise God.What do you think King Solomon did in the temple he built? He had made worship a 24/7 thing. And anything that brings you close to God, and keeps a healthy relationship with Him is obviously binding.
 

horsecamp

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I wish some people would exercise self-control and stop using this thread to re-hash their opinions about tongues which have been aired before and stick to the topic.There are other areas that have hardly been dealt with:-Forms of worship - are they culturally of scripturally derived?Emotion vs no emotionWords of knowledge, special anointingsBinding & loosing spiritsDemons in & out of the church, in houses, over citiesDoes the Pentecostal church lose or gain what it offers by blending with other churches . . .etc
oh come on tall man since you seem to like straight for ward talk lets you and me do a little of it.you want to Blend with other churches ? your talking to horse camp believe me i know what horse manure is especialy when i step in it .what if these churces don't want to blend and want to remain true to what they formaly believed about Christianity.the complant i have heard from people that have their churches taken over by pentecostolism is not that the pentecostals wanted to blend with them but they attached themselves leach like to these churchs Untill finaly they were a majority and then they took over.is it not true you don't want to blend but take them over in favor of pentecostalism?
 

stlizzy

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Feb 6, 2008
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I am impressed you answer has very much Godly wisdom.in your search through holy scripture did you find the gift of tongues given to the apostles was it taught or coached to them by men or women or was it a instant gift of the holy Ghost?and if so why do some pentecostal groups that i am familar with have to teach it to other's?even the most famous pentecostals i have known have had to coach others how to do it.and thats seems confusing .unless of course scripture shows us it is not a immediate gift of the holy ghost.Than i could see the coaching and teaching of it.and what about pentecostal holy laughter barking like dogs and things of that nature we have seen on tv by the more famous pentecostal preachers are these things also taugt in scripture?it all seems very strange to a confessional Lutheran . perhaps you could explain some of these things? Because to tell you the truth .I would much rather learn about pentecostalism from you at this time than famous pentecostal preachers who barks like dog's in church. It would be just to hard for me to take them seriously . Thanks
Corinthians talks a lot about gifts of the Holy Spirit. But right off the bat I would like to say that a gift is a gift. I can teach you to knit a new sweater, but then you yourself would be knitting it and it would not be a gift from me anymore. Likewise, if God gives someone the gift of the Holy Spirit, there is nothing they can do to earn it, because it is a gift. And gifts are free. No strings attached. Just like the sacrifice of Christ-free! How lucky we are to not have to do anything! How God shows us His awesome love through the example of Christ!Paul tells us that "no more than two or three should speak in an unknown language, and they must speak one at a time, and someone must be ready to interpret what they are saying. But if no one is present who can interpret, they must not speak out loud. They must talk silently to themselves and to God in the unknown language but not publicly." (Corinthians 14:27-28) If you have a church, and in this church everyone is speaking in tongues, I would refer back to what scripture says about the gifts. Paul tells us also that: "To one person the Spirit gives the ability to give wise advice; someone else may be especially good at studying and teaching, and this is his gift from the same Spirit. He gives special faith to another, and to someone else the power to heal the sick. He gives power for doing miracles to some, and to others power to prophesy and peach. He gives someone else the power to know whether evil spirits are speaking through those who claim to be giving God's messages- or whether it is really the Spirit of God who is speaking. Still another person is able to speak in languages he never learned; and others, who do not know the language either, are given power to understand what he is saying. It is the same and Holy Spirit who gives all these gifts and powers, deciding which each one of us should have." (1 Corinthians 12:8-11)I like the last part of this passage because it's nice to think that the Holy Spirit decides who gets what. I cannot choose a gift for someone. As for trying to teach it to them, how in the world would I know if that was their gift? If it was not, no matter what I did I couldn't teach it to them, and if it was, then they would already have it and wouldn't have a need to be taught!To go on, all of the gifts are expressly to be used for the benefit of the church. They are not something to be prideful about. (As I have said before.) Paul puts more emphasis on prophesying and teaching the word than he does on tongues. He was wary that it would detract from being able to understand what God wanted taught in His church. I would ask myself if I were faced with some of your questions:"Is the person with this gift using it to edify the church?""Is this gift being used in love" (This is very important, are we loving others? "ll the special gifts and powers from God will someday come to and end, but love goes on forever. Someday prophecy, and speaking in unknown languages, and special knowledge--these gifts will disappear." (1 Corinthians 13:8)"Is the gift being used in a useful manner? Is it helpful to other believers?" (Could speaking in a language that is not being interpreted or not helping anyone but the speaker be very helpful?)As for barking and sounds... I will say that I am going to pray about it and read the scripture.... because I know that there are languages in Africa where people communicate through noises, clicking rather than words; and if a language is "unknown" than we cannot know what it is anyway. But I wouldn't make a judgment about whether or not someone is speaking on tongues just from the types of sounds coming from their mouth, but by what is said, what is interpreted, the way the gift is being used (both in a helpful manner and also humbly, giving all of the glory to God) etc.And I would pray. I would pray about it to God, earnestly seeking His council, listening for His answers, and reading the scripture. Is is so important to read the Scripture, to refer everything back to scripture, so that we are not lead astray. God did not write the Bible to please any culture or standard.He wrote it.I would resist adding anything else to that statement.And I would like to tell you that all I have written here is to the glory of God. I do not deserve any praise or any admiration for what is written. All of the glory be to our Father.PS. Read all of 1 Corinthians. Paul talks all about gifts, their uses and their meanings. Read and love. Pray and listen. God loves His children and knows what is best!
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Thunder1

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TallMan: On this day in 1958, Pentecostal pastor David Wilkerson decided to sell his TV set and devote his evenings to prayer. From this sacrifice grew his mission to street gangs in New York, immortalized in his book, "The Cross and the Switchblade"." I might do the same but the only gangs are chavs and emos with a fancy mobile phone / game system in their pocken, not a blade.They are just too comfortable with life, death is far away so they are not open to God.Thunder1:I agree many people are so comfortable with this life,that they don't even think of God. or they are so busy, they don't have time YET. But time will come as kriss's signature says there will be hunger for the Word of God.
 

Thunder1

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(Wakka;34734)
What's wrong with dressing formal?1. It's respectable to God.2. It cleans up your image.3. Your body is God's temple.4. Glorify God in everything you do.I try to always wear only shirts with a collar. Next I have to get use to tucking my shirts in my pants, instead of wearing them outside.
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Thunder1: I had army pants and T-shirt on in church today and I'm a lady. I just love my army pants. I'm in God's army.
 

Thunder1

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Jon-Marc: I don't believe that tongues are necessary for today. Thunder1:Tongues have been helpful for me and I know for many others as well. Then we could say Jesus was only for those people that time, we don't need Him any more.
 

Thunder1

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Shan Missions: BUT in Pentecostal doctrine, speaking in Tongue is a REQUIREMENT for SALVATION. They do not believe that believers are saved by Faith even they don't speak tongue. Another problem is they consider believers do not have Holy Spirit if they don't speak tongue. Thunder1:I belong to pentacostal church, not everyone speaks in tongues. Tongues are NOT requirement for SALVATION. And the rest of the sentence is wrong also. If you don't speak in tongues, you still can have a Holy Spirit. Jesus is the only SAVIOUR.
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Jordan

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Apr 6, 2007
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Shan Missions: BUT in Pentecostal doctrine, speaking in Tongue is a REQUIREMENT for SALVATION. They do not believe that believers are saved by Faith even they don't speak tongue. Another problem is they consider believers do not have Holy Spirit if they don't speak tongue. Thunder1:I belong to pentacostal church, not everyone speaks in tongues. Tongues are NOT requirement for SALVATION. And the rest of the sentence is wrong also. If you don't speak in tongues, you still can have a Holy Spirit. Jesus is the only SAVIOUR.
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That's not what they said when I was in Pentecostal church...They said that works (tongue speaking) is requirement for salvation... It is dead & unbiblical.JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
 

Thunder1

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horsecamp:But don't you wonder just a bit if this gift is still for people of today and if so why don't conservative christian church pastors ever receive it?Thunder1:possibly they don't believe in it or want to receive it. And it's not just for pastors.Why do only liberal church's receive it . Thunder1:Maybe they are open to it, they want to receive it.actually my auntie is Lutheran and she speaks and prays in tongues. :eek:
 

Thunder1

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That's not what they said when I was in Pentecostal church...They said that works (tongue speaking) is requirement for salvation... It is dead & unbiblical.JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
Thunder1:Not in our church and it's pentacostal. It is unbiblical claim,absolutely. Jesus is the only way to salvation. Many pentacostals can be really pushy and arrogant etc.
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Thunder1

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(TallMan;34780)
I wish some people would exercise self-control and stop using this thread to re-hash their opinions about tongues which have been aired before and stick to the topic.There are other areas that have hardly been dealt with:-Forms of worship - are they culturally of scripturally derived?Emotion vs no emotionWords of knowledge, special anointingsBinding & loosing spiritsDemons in & out of the church, in houses, over citiesDoes the Pentecostal church lose or gain what it offers by blending with other churches . . .etc
What about worship, TallMan ? By the way, how tall are you ?
 

Wakka

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Jun 4, 2007
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Thunder1: I had army pants and T-shirt on in church today and I'm a lady. I just love my army pants. I'm in God's army.
Read 1 Corinthians Chapter 11 some more.
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His By Grace

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I enjoyed reading your post stlizzy. It was a very good analogy with the sweater knitting and it made a lot of sense. Why would we have to teach a gift? I do think the Lord gave us our minds for a reason. We should be wise. The book of Proverbs tells us to seek wisdom and knowledge over and over. I don't think it's an earthly thing, though. The more we put on the mind of Christ, the more we will be able to discern what He desires for us.
 

Shan Missions

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Shan Missions: BUT in Pentecostal doctrine, speaking in Tongue is a REQUIREMENT for SALVATION. They do not believe that believers are saved by Faith even they don't speak tongue. Another problem is they consider believers do not have Holy Spirit if they don't speak tongue. Thunder1:I belong to pentacostal church, not everyone speaks in tongues. Tongues are NOT requirement for SALVATION. And the rest of the sentence is wrong also. If you don't speak in tongues, you still can have a Holy Spirit. Jesus is the only SAVIOUR.
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Thunder 1,Specifically in the matter of "speaking in tongues," a number of groups (but not all) which are historically defined as Pentecostal have made this manifestation an absolute prerequisite to salvation. They do not view it as merely one of the spiritual gifts which may be given to a Christian. They believe it to be the "sign" of conversion. On the other hand, most Charismatic groups believe that it is the privilege of all Christians to speak in tongues, but it is a gift which is given subsequent to the conversion experience. Thus a person who has not yet spoken in tongues but who has professed Christ, and perhaps even been baptized in water, would still be considered a brother or sister in Christ. Ref: [url="http://www.isitso.org/guide/pentchar.html#simdiff]http://www.isitso.org/guide/pentchar.html#simdiff[/url]
 

Thunder1

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Thunder 1,Specifically in the matter of "speaking in tongues," a number of groups (but not all) which are historically defined as Pentecostal have made this manifestation an absolute prerequisite to salvation. They do not view it as merely one of the spiritual gifts which may be given to a Christian. They believe it to be the "sign" of conversion. On the other hand, most Charismatic groups believe that it is the privilege of all Christians to speak in tongues, but it is a gift which is given subsequent to the conversion experience. Thus a person who has not yet spoken in tongues but who has professed Christ, and perhaps even been baptized in water, would still be considered a brother or sister in Christ. Ref: http://www.isitso.org/guide/pentchar.html#simdiff
It makes me sad that they teach so. If anybody in my church would come and say, hey you are not saved or born again Christian if you don't speak in tongues. I would certainly say back to them, what a load of rubbish. And we can take action, we don't just have to take it in. I would not.
 

setfree

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Oct 14, 2007
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I am still studying this very closely. I have a lot to learn. This is where I stand, as I have stated in other post. I believe all believers are indwelt with the Holy Spirit at salvation. The gifts of the spirit are still for today. When the Holy Spirit comes to live inside us he comes with gifts. Not everyone believes that the gifts are there, but the bible says “ ..selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.” These gifts are giving to edify, exhort and comfort the church. The church still need to be comforted, edified and exhorted today, why would he take these away if we still need them. He gives his gifts without repentance ( he does not regret or change his mind). We might not agree on how the gifts are manifested, but they are still here. When I ask Jesus to forgive me and cleanse me, not by anything I have done, but because of what he had already done. I received his Holy Spirit, by faith; not understanding all that came with Him. I had to learn about His Spirit that lived within me through scriptures and prayer. We all have the same gift (Holy Spirit), we just do not understand how he is manifested through us. I did not speak in tongues when I was saved, I did not even know the Holy Spirit came with gifts. I understood only that I was a sinner that needed a Savior, and that Jesus died on the cross because He loved me and wanted to save me. As a child of 9 years old that is all I knew. Later, I as grew in the knowledge of my Savior and the work of His Spirit, I embraced the truth of His gifts. I ask Him to teach me, and this is where I am today.I do speak in tongues and I am enjoying a closer walk with my Savior. But in the same sense, I believe that I was saved back at 9 years old, without the manifestations.
 

Wakka

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Jun 4, 2007
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So you pray in tongues or speak it. I'm confused. I want to pray in tongues (which is actually prayer, the babbling just comes from your subconscious trying to make noises come out of your mouth). Because it's a new way of concentration. You can't get distracted like in conventional prayer.Edit: That's what I understand it is. I'll know what it truly is if I gain the ability.
 

setfree

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So you pray in tongues or speak it. I'm confused. I want to pray in tongues (which is actually prayer, the babbling just comes from your subconscious trying to make noises come out of your mouth). Because it's a new way of concentration. You can't get distracted like in conventional prayer.Edit: That's what I understand it is. I'll know what it truly is if I gain the ability.
As a child I understood very little about the gifts you recieve at salvation. Later as an adult, in our church we were taught these gifts no longer existed. I met some christians that believed they were still here. I tried to defend my stand on how they ceased, they questioned my stand. I turned to God when I could not defend it. Ask Him to teach me the truth in His Word. He will guide you into all truth! I ask Jesus to forgive me of my lack of faith and accepted His truth, that He revealed to me. I still knew very little of what the purpose for the gifts were. I was told that praying in tongues you prayed from your spirit and not your mind. You have to open your mouth and speak, but not in English. At first it was a few words, it sounded strange, this was so new to me. God has answered more prayer in the last year. It is still amazing me! I do not speak in tongues in church. I belong to a Baptist church that is not open up to Him in this way,YET! So to answer your question, I pray and magnify God with tongues that are unknown to me, but known to God.(1 Corinthians 14:2)
 
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I'm non-denominational but I believe in the Oneness of God. I believe in the Restored Gifts. I am against Denomination, but if there's any denomination that I had the best experience with it was the Oneness Pentocostal Apostolic Church. But later on I came to a greater Message, one to call me out of denomination. I do hope you find your Way, Ask the Lord in Jesus Christ's Name! Denomination is not the answer for you, the Holy Ghost is.