Helen
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The Identity of the Two Witnesses of Revelation
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101G
Well-Known Member
I must disagree here. God do tell us. let's take this one verse at a time.
Revelation 11:3 "And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth".
A. the POWER here is the anointing of the Holy Spirit from birth. which is the OLIVE "OIL" in Zechariah. the only two men who is BORN with the Spirit from birth in the same time era are John the Baptist, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
B. "they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days". or 42 months or 3 1/2 years. the exact length of the Lord Jesus and John's ministry of "REPENTANCE". which lead us to,
C. "clothed in sackcloth". sackcloth is symbolic of mourning and penance, and penance is an outward expression of repentance for having done wrong. supportive scripture, John, Mark 1:4 "John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins". now, the Lord Jesus, Mark 1:14 "Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel".
these are the two OLIVE TREES, the two anointed ones.
Peace in Christ Yeshua.
Jun2u
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Jun2u
Well-Known Member
The two Olive trees represented two individuals then, and they represent two individuals in Revelation 11:3-4. They will be the 'two Olive trees' for their day, as Zerubbabel and Jeshua were in a former day.
However if God wished us to know who they are He would have told us.
Where He remains silent so should we.
Proverbs 25:2
It is the glory of God to conceal a thing; but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.
To God Be The Glory
However if God wished us to know who they are He would have told us.
Where He remains silent so should we.
Proverbs 25:2
It is the glory of God to conceal a thing; but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.
To God Be The Glory
Richard_oti
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Believe the "Gospel", according to John, 42 months or 3 1/2 years can not be accounted for.
Jun2u
Well-Known Member
Where else do you find power was given besides the two witnesses in Rev 11:3, and to those you've already mentioned?
I'm not trying to stump but help you when I give hints and clues. After all, it took many hours to find the identity of the Two Witnesses. But I must admit you are getting close.
To God Be The Glory
With respect @101G,
How can the Lord Jesus Christ be one of the two witnesses, and also 'The Coming One', Who was the subject of that witness, and the power of it
In Christ Jesus
charity
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101G
Well-Known Member
LOL, LOL, LOL. stump me? "I give hints and clues". LOL,..... ok, ok, look I gave the names of the two witness, John the baptist, and the Lord Jesus the Christ. please... please, don't help me anymore... Just post the two name for your two witness. I would appreciate it.
Now tell the world who are the two witness.
Peace in Christ Jesus.
101G
Well-Known Member
first thanks for the response. good question, what a refreshing. who better to witness than your own self.
WITNESS #1 and his POWER, scripture, John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:2 "The same was in the beginning with God.John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.John 1:4 "In him was life; and the life was the light of men. John 1:5 "And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. WITNESS #2, John 1:6 "There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. John 1:7 "The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. John 1:8 "He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. John 1:9 "That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. John 1:10 "He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. John 1:11 "He came unto his own, and his own received him not. John 1:12 "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name.
we have both witness here in the same verse. Let's break down these two witness. you asked "How can the Lord Jesus Christ be one of the two witnesses, and also 'The Coming One'". let's Get this one first. in order to know who came. we need to know who was sent.
THE COMING ONE'S. the first to be sent. John the Baptist.
OT, Malachi 3:1 "Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts". we know that the Lord is Coming.
the fulfillment of this in the NT.
Matthew 11:7 "And as they departed, Jesus began to say unto the multitudes concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind? Matthew 11:8 "But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? behold, they that wear soft clothing are in kings' houses. Matthew 11:9 "But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet. Matthew 11:10 "For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. STOP, this is a direct quote from Malachi 3:1 "Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me". now can the Lord Jesus lie? no God forbid. I suggest you re-read those two verses again. now right there that should end any conversation about who came. but lest's be very sure. let's continue on.
Matthew 11:11 "Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. Matthew 11:12 "And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force. Matthew 11:13 "For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. charity, LISTEN REAL GOOD TO THIS NEXT VERSE. Matthew 11:14 "And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come. Matthew 11:15 "He that hath ears to hear, let him hear".
ok, we have the one who comes and prepare the way before Lord. Elias here the spelling for Elijah.
one more. Luke 1:15 "For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. Luke 1:16 "And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God. Luke 1:17 "And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord".
someone have to be blind and or dishonest not to see that John the Baptist is the ONE to come and prepared the way for the Lord.
I will let you examine and respond to just these verse, but there are many more scripture that identify John the Baptist as one of the witness to come, then we can move on to the second witness who came in POWER also.
Peace in Christ Yeshua.
Hello [COLOR=#b30000]@101G[/COLOR],
Thank you for providing from Scripture your reasons for believing that the two witnesses of Revelation 11:3-4 are John the Baptist, and our Lord Jesus Christ Himself.
Malachi (3:4) speaks of Elijah as coming to restore all things, and the Lord Himself endorses this in Matt 11:14 & 17:11-13. In one sense (He explains) he had come in the person of John the Baptist who ministered in 'the spirit and power' of Elijah (Luke 1:17). But this was conditional, 'If ye will receive it.'. Israel did not receive it; and therefore in another sense - he was yet to come. This prophetic truth has led some expositors to consider either Moses (as on the Mount of Transfiguration) or Enoch as the other witness.
What is certain is, that in the coming day of Israel's recognition and in the days of the Beast, God will raise up two individual men, whom He will call, 'MY two witnesses,' and will endow them with wondrous powers to enable them to carry out the commission which He will then give them. Beyond this it is neither necessary nor desirable to go.
In Christ Jesus
charity
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Hello [COLOR=#b30000]@101G[/COLOR],
In Malachi 3:1 that you quote, it says,
Behold, I will send My messenger, and he shall prepare the way before Me:
and the Lord, Whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to His temple,
even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in:
behold, He shall come, saith the Lord of hosts.'
Here we have both Elijah and Christ Jesus the risen Lord, returning to the earth as promised, as Israel's much longed for Messiah. So, the Lord Jesus Christ cannot be the other witness @101G.
The prophecy in Malachi 4:5 introduces the great fulfillment of Jehovah's prophecy by Moses in Deuteronomy 18:15-19; compare Acts 3:18-26 and Acts 7:37.
In Christ Jesus
charity
In Malachi 3:1 that you quote, it says,
Behold, I will send My messenger, and he shall prepare the way before Me:
and the Lord, Whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to His temple,
even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in:
behold, He shall come, saith the Lord of hosts.'
Here we have both Elijah and Christ Jesus the risen Lord, returning to the earth as promised, as Israel's much longed for Messiah. So, the Lord Jesus Christ cannot be the other witness @101G.
The prophecy in Malachi 4:5 introduces the great fulfillment of Jehovah's prophecy by Moses in Deuteronomy 18:15-19; compare Acts 3:18-26 and Acts 7:37.
In Christ Jesus
charity
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101G
Well-Known Member
first thanks for the response. but I must disagree with that assessment, here's why. if you can receive it, is the same as if you can bare it. the truth. it can be hard to bare at time, because we don't fully understand at times. and the truth can hurt, because of not understanding. see the answer is at the end of what he was saying about John, listen. Matthew 11:15 "He that hath ears to hear, let him hear". this is the same language used in the 7 churches, listen, Revelation 2:7a "He that hath an ear, let him hear. this is the same exact language.
but the Lord Jesus is clear in hearing, Matthew 24:10-13 "And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.". those who keep the word of God in truth, unto the end.
so you don't believe the scriptures? you don't believe the Lord Jesus the Christ?. do you believe that the two witness are yet to come. please let me know this. thanks in advance.
Peace in Christ Jesus/Yeshua.
101G
Well-Known Member
error, he is the witness before his death. this is why these witness are called martyrs.
Hello @101G,
Of course I believe the Scriptures, I just don't subscribe to your interpretation of them. The two witnesses of Revelation 11, will die a martyrs death, and will be raised to life again (Rev. 11:7,11). The word translated witness is 'martus' meaning martyr.
Our Lord, and John the Baptist were both witnesses in one sense, at the time of our Lord's first advent: John to the person of the Lord Jesus Christ; and our Lord, Who made known God the Father through His person and His work. As to the identity of the two witnesses yet to come, I will leave that with the Lord, rather than impose my own feeble understanding upon it.
In Christ Jesus
charity
Of course I believe the Scriptures, I just don't subscribe to your interpretation of them. The two witnesses of Revelation 11, will die a martyrs death, and will be raised to life again (Rev. 11:7,11). The word translated witness is 'martus' meaning martyr.
Our Lord, and John the Baptist were both witnesses in one sense, at the time of our Lord's first advent: John to the person of the Lord Jesus Christ; and our Lord, Who made known God the Father through His person and His work. As to the identity of the two witnesses yet to come, I will leave that with the Lord, rather than impose my own feeble understanding upon it.
In Christ Jesus
charity
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101G
Well-Known Member
first, I interpret nothing. I posted scripture. so that is out.
yes the Lord Jesus and John the Baptist both died violent death, they are martyrs. that's bible.
one sense? see, you're imposing your own opinion but you criticize me of interpretation, which I did not. I used scripture. but to be fair, produce the scripture, or scriptures that gave you the conclusion that they in a sense both witness.
peace in Christ Yeshua.
101G
Well-Known Member
Charity, if you want to discuss the identity of the two witness, I’m game. But if we’re going to discuss, let’s set some rules.
#1. no need to accuse one another of anything. If one disagree, Good, just counter with scripture.
#2. if one explain a scripture, have (a). another supporting scripture, or (b). Research in relation to scripture in question.
By doing this we can advance the discussion, and not engage in conversation. Thanks in advance.
Agreed?.
#1. no need to accuse one another of anything. If one disagree, Good, just counter with scripture.
#2. if one explain a scripture, have (a). another supporting scripture, or (b). Research in relation to scripture in question.
By doing this we can advance the discussion, and not engage in conversation. Thanks in advance.
Agreed?.
101G
Well-Known Member
bbyrd009
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our minds and our intestines are also supposed to be witnesses, of our hearts, and i suggest that our minds and guts might also be martyred, spiritually speaking.
i am even dimly seeing the "presents" that we give and the cheers or whatever that go up when we martyr our mind/gut in the acceptance of...well, that which causes our mind or gut to be martyred lol...um, applicable to, um, ppl who have "lost their first love."
cuz how does one lose their "First Love?" except by martyr...ya, should be findable from there i guess, if there is anything to find
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