What does Our Savior consider Idolatry

charity · Dec 11, 2017

@bbyrd009:

charity:'The things of this world are obvious'

Click to expand...

'Are they?'

Fair pointl @bbyrd009! I guess they are not always so. For there are the more refined desires of the mind (Eph. 2:3), which are not as obvious as the more carnal desires of the flesh. I was thinking of such a list as that of (Gal 5:19-21).

'Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these;
Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations,
wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like:
of the which I tell you before,
as I have also told you in time past,
that they which do such things
shall not inherit the kingdom of God.'

charity · Dec 11, 2017

@bbyrd009 said:
ok, not being funny here, could you define this "we?"

By, 'We', I include all that have been saved by God's grace @bbyrd009.

Helen · Dec 11, 2017

bbyrd009 said:
really? hmm. Our proclivity to exclude seems the more rife to me, wadr. Pentecostals are often excluded, Jws, Mormons almost always are, Catholics are quite often, etc.

dunno

By who?! Just because some do...doesn't therefore make it right or correct.
Maybe by the carnal.
I don't have to agree with a persons doctrine to acknowledge that they are God-seekers. Within every single creed and people there are always the true seekers. Always has been.
Naaman was still a Syrian after conversion...yet he still lead the Syrian King into the House Of Baal, to worship....but his heart was after God's heart. He was in God's "Church " .... if there was a OT church.

BreadOfLife · Dec 11, 2017

bbyrd009 said:
yes, ok, so then we just go and debate the meanings of some other terms, then, i mean what is the point, if we are speaking in tongues right. Living Stones is a perfectly good def imo--that i notice is absent from your list?--chiefly because there are so few definitions to be manipulated. Not to be unkind, but i'm not surprised it doesn't suit you. Right now anyway.

this is for someone else, i guess, don't feel obligated to react

Then define "Living Stones".

bbyrd009 · Dec 11, 2017

charity said:
Fair pointl @bbyrd009! I guess they are not always so. For there are the more refined desires of the mind (Eph. 2:3), which are not as obvious as the more carnal desires of the flesh. I was thinking of such a list as that of (Gal 5:19-21).

'Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these;
Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations,
wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like:
of the which I tell you before,
as I have also told you in time past,
that they which do such things
shall not inherit the kingdom of God.'

hmm, i got tagged for #382, but not #381, hmm.

anyway,
"but the subtlety of religion is far more deceptive; and equally destructive to the simplicity that is in Christ Jesus."
"ah ok" (back there)

kind of cleared that up for me; but then it started talking about the "saved," which is a...religious belief to me, so it is my problem lol, not yours. But you might see that some "definition" of the saved is being intimated, right? (the point being who does this except "the religious?" the ones being outed earlier)

this is what autism looks like lol, never mind

bbyrd009 · Dec 11, 2017

charity said:
By, 'We', I include all that have been saved by God's grace @bbyrd009.

amen; others are just not so universally inclusive.
i would have to read something completely different in the same statement from...someone else, iow

bbyrd009 · Dec 11, 2017

"ByGrace" said:
By who?! Just because some do...doesn't therefore make it right or correct.

boy, i would be totally guessing, but imo it is somewhere around 50/50? And used to be much worse?

"ByGrace" said:
I don't have to agree with a persons doctrine to acknowledge that they are God-seekers.

no, but them condemning your doctrine sure does help, huh

"ByGrace" said:
Within every single creed and people there are always the true seekers. Always has been.

Word

"ByGrace" said:
Within every single creed and people there are always the true seekers. Always has been.

Wor

"ByGrace" said:
He was in God's "Church " .... if there was a OT church.

i agree, but no doubt some Pharisee would not have, i guess; not even if they read the account in Scripture, some of em

bbyrd009 · Dec 11, 2017

BreadOfLife said:
Then define "Living Stones".

for this i recommend going to a Muslim village around sundown, BoL. i wish i could recommend a Christian town, and surely there are some, but i just haven't run across them. You best shot there would be Catholic towns, i guess. But even then, being as how we are so similar to them visually, it messes up the dynamic; one is less likely to be judgemental of the completely foreign.

you have to define that for yourself iow, you prolly wouldn't like my def even there.

BreadOfLife · Dec 11, 2017

bbyrd009 said:
for this i recommend going to a Muslim village around sundown, BoL. i wish i could recommend a Christian town, and surely there are some, but i just haven't run across them. You best shot there would be Catholic towns, i guess. But even then, being as how we are so similar to them visually, it messes up the dynamic; one is less likely to be judgemental of the completely foreign.

you have to define that for yourself iow, you prolly wouldn't like my def even there.

That's just another cop-out.

YOU said that "Living stones" should be included in the definition of "Church".
I'm asking you to define what "Living Stones" are.

bbyrd009 · Dec 11, 2017

BreadOfLife said:
That's just another cop-out.

ha, so you say, but then what is the definition @ "Living Stones" in Scripture?
is It copping out, too?

so then, as long as we are clear that i am not the arbiter of the def of living stones, i have sought several defs in diff phases of my walk, right now i'm on Good Samaritan, which as it turns out is much more complex than we might realize, or imagine in our vain musings about cheerfully helping some stranded waifs who are imagined as pretty and well-kept, with fresh breath, and just somehow needing our aid, right, at least that was mine lol

bbyrd009 · Dec 11, 2017

the living Stone —rejected by humans

12Live such good lives among the pagans that, though they accuse you of doing wrong, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day he visits us.

BreadOfLife · Dec 11, 2017

bbyrd009 said:
ha, so you say, but then what is the definition @ "Living Stones" in Scripture?
is It copping out, too?

so then, as long as we are clear that i am not the arbiter of the def of living stones, i have sought several defs in diff phases of my walk, right now i'm on Good Samaritan, which as it turns out is much more complex than we might realize, or imagine in our vain musings about cheerfully helping some stranded waifs who are imagined as pretty and well-kept, with fresh breath, and just somehow needing our aid, right, at least that was mine lol

This is nothing but evasive nonsense.

I gave the Scriptural definition of what the Church is.
YOU objected because I didn't use the term "Living Stones" - yet you can't define what it means.

If you don't know what it means - then why would you object that I didn't use the term in the first place?

bbyrd009 · Dec 11, 2017

BreadOfLife said:
This is nothing but evasive nonsense.

so you say, BoL, but i notice that you did not post the Scriptural def of living stones, either, so...

BreadOfLife said:
I gave the Scriptural definition of what the Church is.

omitting the most central one imo, but sure, ok. i esch...avoid giving a definition, for the same reasons that Scripture does, now. Dang, i guess that will be read wrong, pls get what i mean instead of that, ty

BreadOfLife said:
YOU objected because I didn't use the term "Living Stones"

hmm, i objected really because you gave a definition, period; and fwiw had we been doing this IRL you would not have heard a peep out of me

BreadOfLife said:
yet you can't define what it means.

so you say, yes

even though i just gave 2

BreadOfLife said:
If you don't know what it means - then why would you object that I didn't use the term in the first place?

pretty sure i made that crystal clear already, too; it is because that is likely the most...um, diaphanous, ya ya, diaphanous description of "Church" that i like it, and you do not. (bonus points for picking up that diaphanous is usually used to describe things that are virtually weightless, whereas we are discussing stones here

)

i promise i can tell you in plain English--i even speak Catholic btw, just not in your hearing-
-when you admit that you cannot describe a single absolute truth from the Book, if that helps?

otherwise it will only get worse, i guess. i am gritting my teeth already lol

BreadOfLife · Dec 11, 2017

bbyrd009 said:
so you say, BoL, but i notice that you did not post the Scriptural def of living stones, either, so...

I'm not the one who brought it into the conversation - YOU did.
The onus is on YOU to define it.

bbyrd009 said:
omitting the most central one imo, but sure, ok. i esch...avoid giving a definition, for the same reasons that Scripture does, now. Dang, i guess that will be read wrong, pls get what i mean instead of that, ty

hmm, i objected really because you gave a definition, period; and fwiw had we been doing this IRL you would not have heard a peep out of me

so you say, yes
even though i just gave 2

pretty sure i made that crystal clear already, too; it is because that is likely the most...um, diaphanous, ya ya, diaphanous description of "Church" that i like it, and you do not. (bonus points for picking up that diaphanous is usually used to describe things that are virtually weightless, whereas we are discussing stones here )

i promise i can tell you in plain English--i even speak Catholic btw, just not in your hearing-
-when you admit that you cannot describe a single absolute truth from the Book, if that helps?
otherwise it will only get worse, i guess. i am gritting my teeth already lol

Translation: "I really stuck my foot in my mouth and now I am back-pedaling because I can't dig myself out of this hole."

bbyrd009 · Dec 11, 2017

BreadOfLife said:
I'm not the one who brought it into the conversation - YOU did.
The onus is on YOU to define it.

Translation: "I really stuck my foot in my mouth and now I am back-pedaling because I can't dig myself out of this hole."

best characterization i could think of, i guess, ya. have a nice evening bro

i've gotten a "banned" screen 2 or 3 times in the last couple minutes, chatting with God's Grace, dunno if we will be talking much any more.
may God go with you if not, ok

bbyrd009 · Dec 11, 2017

hope you find "nonsense" in the Book soon

BreadOfLife · Dec 11, 2017

bbyrd009 said:
hope you find "nonsense" in the Book soon

It's not God's written word that contains nonsense.
It's in your evasive responses.

Truth · Dec 11, 2017

bbyrd009 said:
hmm, other perspectives there; testing Moses, iow. Imo if He had wanted to, He coulda, right

is food really even in perspective there, in light of "silly human! don't you know that whatever you eat passes through the body, and is eliminated?" (para)

#1 Yes he coulda, If He wanted to.
As I believe, God already described what was food and what wasn't, I also believe that when Our savior spoke of food He was relating to what God already Imposed.

Truth · Dec 11, 2017

charity said:
@Truth @"ByGrace" @Job @Angelina @bbyrd009 @DPMartin @ScottA @BreadOfLife @Stranger @FHII @kepha31 @tabletalk @Richard_oti @Marymog @aspen @mjrhealth @Frank Lee @liafailrock @EndTimeWine

* Some time ago, on a forum, I read the experience of someone who had married a woman who had travelled extensively in Asia, and had bought many metal items wrought with designs and imagery depicting the gods of the lands she visited: this all came with her into his home. However, when they both, some time later, came to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ: they became convicted that these items would have to go. For the artists who carved and engraved these items, dedicated them to the worship of the gods they depicted, their very work was an act of worship: and they now felt like an alien, even hostile presence within the home. So she and her husband searched out every one and had them destroyed. An idol has no power in itself, but the evil spirit it represents is another matter.

Just another thought to add.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

It is written!! God through Moses spoke to the children Of Israel saying! Do not Inquire How they serve and worship their gods, and say to yourself, I will use their form of worship and do what they do BUT I will do it for My God, God said it was an Abomination. this is what they did while Moses was on the Mountain, receiving the Two Tables of Stone, after Moses returned He instructed the Levites to slay all that took part in the worship of the Golden Calf, which they used, and Aaron declared it a Feast to God. 3000 were slain that day. God the same then, now, and forever! In Malachi God say I am the Lord, I change Not, and if you tear out the Page at the end of the Book of Malachi, you find the book of Matthew! the story of the Son of Righteousness, with healing in His wings. Malachi 4:2 It flows right into the New Testament!

charity · Dec 12, 2017

Re: the point raised regarding what constitutes the church.
In this present dispensation the church being called out is, ...

Truth said:
It is written!! God through Moses spoke to the children Of Israel saying! Do not Inquire How they serve and worship their gods, and say to yourself, I will use their form of worship and do what they do BUT I will do it for My God, God said it was an Abomination. this is what they did while Moses was on the Mountain, receiving the Two Tables of Stone, after Moses returned He instructed the Levites to slay all that took part in the worship of the Golden Calf, which they used, and Aaron declared it a Feast to God. 8000 were slain that day. God the same then, now, and forever! In Malachi God say I am the Lord, I change Not, and if you tear out the Page at the end of the Book of Malachi, you find the book of Matthew! the story of the Son of Righteousness, with healing in His wings. Malachi 4:2 It flows right into the New Testament!

Hello @Truth,

Thank you for this. I love the phrase you quote, "It is written!!" It sounds so authoritative, doesn't it? Sets the seal upon what is being referred to.

* I also love the words, 'God the same then, now, and forever!' (quote) In Malachi God say 'I am the Lord, I change Not,' and if you tear out the Page at the end of the Book of Malachi, you find the book of Matthew! the story of the Son of Righteousness, with healing in His wings. Malachi 4:2 It flows right into the New Testament!(unquote)

* Yes, indeed, Matthew flows on from Malachi.

'Jesus Christ
.. the same yesterday,
.... and to day,
...... and for ever.'
(Heb 13:8)

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

What does Our Savior consider Idolatry

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