It is not in the bible.....sola scripture

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Marymog

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Mary,

Let's read the Acts 15 passage in context. Here, you have cherry picked only a portion of one verse:

24We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. 25So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul— 26men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. 28It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things (Acts 15:24-29 NIV).​

This was written to the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia (v. 23). There were specific circumstances that Judas and Silas had to deal with and they depended on the Holy Spirit to direct them with the information in v. 29. I fully support the Holy Spirit's ability to prompt believers in certain circumstances to deal with specific action, based on the context of what was happening in the lives of these Gentiles.

However, that message will not conflict with the God-breathed Scripture.

As for the meaning of binding and loosing in Matt 18:18-19, what is your interpretation of these scriptural verses? To what 'authority' do you refer?

Oz
Dear sir,

It seems your answer is that the ability to decide for all Christians what is good to the Holy Spirit DID NOT end with the Apostles?

Jesus gave the Apostles the authority to bind and loosen. Did that authority die with the last Apostle or did the Apostles pass it on to the other men that took their place?

Mary
 

Marymog

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By the Spirit of God in us. Are we not His sheep? Do we not recognize His voice? Do not obey His voice?


Who else but God? Man will often speak his peace but every man that I have known including yours truly has at times spoke out of turn.


I am when I am paying attention and I am obedient.


By the Spirit of God in us. That is where we get the "eyes to see" and the "ears to hear".
Thank You.
 
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Marymog

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Mary,

You know your Bible. Surely you know the answer to that question! Are you raising it to cause a stir???

View attachment 1414

'Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things. 21 For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit' (2 Pet 1:20-21 NIV).​

That's HOW God did it. Human beings were carried along by the Holy Spirit and put it into writing.

WHAT did God do?

'16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work' (2 Tim 3:16-17 NIV).​

The HOW when applied to WHAT gives us the God-breathed Scripture that came via the writing of human beings.

Oz
'
Hi Oz,

Not raising it to cause a stir my good friend. Just using specific questions that lead to logical answers to prove that sola scriptura is not in the bible.

I agree with you. God gave us the truth (scripture) via human beings that were carried along by the Holy Spirit. They put the truth in writing.

Since God used man to give us scripture, does he not use man to reveal the Truth of scripture?

Or did he give us the Truth (scripture) and then sit back and tell us to figure out who the Truth has been revealed to....Gnostics, Catholics, OzSpen, Marymog, St. Augustine, Methodist, Lutherans, Martin Luther....???

If use the book of John to rebuke and correct you about your beliefs on the lack of the real presence in the Eucharist and you use the book of John to prove me wrong......who is right? How do we know who is right since we both used scripture to prove each other wrong?



IHS...Mary
 
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bbyrd009

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Relativism is not compatible with the truth of scripture.
so you say, yes
Relativism leads to the theory that, “It is absolutely true there is no absolute truth. Truth is based on my circumstances, experiences and culture."
it certainly does, yes

bam state some Absolute Truth if you like, and we can see
 

bbyrd009

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Are you suggesting God gave us absolute truth (scripture) but is not allowing us to know that truth for thousands of years? He's playing a joke on us?
hmm. well, i am suggesting that the absolute truth is that you cannot write down an absolute truth, unless you limit yourself to the letters G, O, and D, if that is any help. maybe your replies to the bams will clarify this, but really Amadeus has already put it gooder than i could. God gave us the Gospel, too, but we still got like a quarter-million threads on "What is the Gospel?" last time i checked.
Am i playing a joke on you if i tell you to stay here for the present? :)
 

Marymog

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False!

I hold to a biblical position and have tried to demonstrate it throughout this thread. In addition, my article, Perpetual virginity of Mary promoted by false document, deals with the biblical and other material.

I do not hold to the Protestant Tradition of Luther, Calvin, Zwingli & John Wesley, who were coming out of the RCC, and continued to believe in Mary's perpetual virginity.


My position comes from Scripture. I find nothing in Scripture to support Mary's perpetual virginity.

That's no fallacy but your wanting to label it as a fallacy when it is not.

Oz

Hi OZ...My response to you is in red; your statements are in black. I am reposting this since I can't find where you responded to it. The last several paragraphs are the most pressing for me.

Here is a list of some contradictions between The Protoevangelium of James and the Bible (from, Is the Perpetual Virginity of Mary a Biblical View?)

Protoevangelium of James vs The Bible
1 Gabriel is called an archangel (PeJ, Chapter 9:22), which was a common designation for Gabriel in apocryphal literature written after the first century. (For example, see Revelation of Paul, The Book of John Concerning the Falling Asleep of Mary, and The Apocalypse of the Holy Mother of God.)

The Bible never identifies Gabriel as an archangel, but Michael is described as an archangel in Jude 1:9. The idea of Gabriel as an archangel seems to be a misconception that began in the second century.

No argument here. The practice of calling Gabriel an archangel started in the 2nd Century which is when Proto. of James was written. All historians generally agree it was written in the middle of the 2nd century. Since adding the word "archangel" to the text DOES NOT destroy the perpetual virginity belief we will move on and throw out that silly "contradiction".

2 Mary’s response to the angel is different than what is recorded in Scripture. “What! Shall I conceive by the living God, and bring forth as all other women do?” (PeJ 9:12).

Bible: Luke 1:34 states, “Then Mary said to the angel, ‘How can this be, since I do not know a man?’”

Putting Mary's response to the angel IN CONTEXT shows (depending which translation you use) that Mary "questioned in herself" OR "reasoned with herself". That STRONGLY suggest that she was thinking it (PeJ 9:12) in her mind, and it was not what she actually said to the angel. But why put statements in context if it throws another wrench in your theory?

3 Elizabeth fled the Bethlehem region with her son John (the Baptist) to the mountains because of Herod’s wrath when he decided to kill all the baby boys around and in Bethlehem (PeJ 16:3).

Bible: Concerning John the Baptist, Luke 1:80 states, “So the child grew and became strong in spirit, and was in the deserts till the day of his manifestation to Israel.” It was Joseph, Mary, and Jesus who fled from Bethlehem because of Herod (Matthew 2:13–15).

I agree that Herod was out to kill all the baby boys around and in Bethlehem. Hebron, which is where John the Baptist was born, is only 18 miles from Bethlehem. That sounds like "the Bethlehem region" to me. How many miles away from Bethlehem do you have to be for it NOT to be considered "in the region"?

4 Jesus was born in a cave outside the city of Bethlehem (PeJ 12:11–14:31).

Bible: Jesus was born in Bethlehem, the town of David, according to Luke 2:4, 11 and Matthew 2:1.

Here in the States each of the 50 states are made up of counties. I live in the County about two miles from one City limit (population 450,000) and one mile from another City limit (population 5,000). When anyone asks me where I live I tell them I live in the City that is closest to me which is also the city I get my mail at. I tell them I live in City X even though I really live in the County. So was Jesus born inside the City limits of Bethlehem or was he born on the outskirts of town that everyone considered Bethlehem? Can you imagine this conversation:

Oz: Let's go visit my friend Joseph while he and Mary are in the Judea region.
Marymog: Ok...Let's go. Where are they?
Oz: In the Judea region. I already told you that Mary.
Marymog: Right. Got it. But can you narrow it down a little bit more please so we know which road to take?
OZ: Just outside of Bethlehem.
Marymog: Thank you Oz. Now we know what road to take and which city we are going to. Bethlehem!!
Oz: Mary!! Technically we are not going to Bethlehem. We are going to the Judea region.
Marymog: :mad:


Another minor discrepancy that is no worse than the discrepancies in scripture.

5 The angel of the Lord, when speaking to Joseph in a dream, said to take Mary but does not mention having her as a wife. The priest chastised Joseph and accused him for taking Mary as a wife secretly by the priest. Joseph takes her home but is reluctant to call her his wife when they go to Bethlehem (PeJ 10:17–18, 11:14, 12:2–3).

Bible: Matthew 1:19 reveals that Joseph was already Mary’s husband (they were betrothed) before the angel visited him in a dream. Matthew 1:24 points out that after the angel visited Joseph, he kept her as his wife.

Once again, putting the Proto. of James in context, Joseph did accept her as his wife and went to enroll her as his wife: How shall I enroll her? As my wife? I am ashamed. As my daughter then? But all the sons of Israel know that she is not my daughter.

This contradiction does not negate perpetual virginity.


6 Mary wrapped Jesus in swaddling cloths and hid him in a manger at the inn to keep him from the massacre by Herod’s men (PeJ 16:2).

Mary: Mary and Joseph were warned of Herod’s plot by an angel, and they fled to Egypt (Matthew 2:13–14).

I am not sure where you got your translation from but I have two other reliable translations (Roberts-Donaldson, M.R. James) that differ from yours:

And when Mary heard that the children were being slain, she was afraid, and took the young child and wrapped in swaddling clothes and laid him in an ox-manger.

And Mary, having heard that the children were being killed, was afraid, and took the infant and swaddled Him, and put Him into an ox-stall.


Neither of those translations mention a manger at the inn. Furthermore, this event happened AFTER the Magi left Bethlehem and AFTER Herod eventually heard that he was being mocked by the Magi. They didn't have telephones or email back then so it probably took a week or two for Herod to hear what was going on and send out the troops. Mary and Joseph were probably long gone out of Bethlehem by then. The ox-stall could have been in any city 50 miles from Bethlehem. None of this debunks the perpetual virginity teaching and it is not even contradictory to scripture.


7 Wise men came to Bethlehem and inquired of Herod where the Child was born (PeJ 21:1–2).

Bible: Wise men came to Jerusalem to inquire where the child king was (Matthew 2:1).

Once again the translation you used, which I can't find, does not mirror the reliable translations I have found: And there was a great commotion in Bethlehem of Judaea, for Magi came, saying.."

And there came a great tumult in Bethlehem of Judaea; for there came wise men, saying..."

BOTH translations say that the Magi went to Bethlehem but NEITHER translation say they met Herod there. Both translations also say that Herod sent officer TO the Magi.

If your basing your argument on a suspect translation then we need to talk. We need to discuss where you got your translations from my good friend.


I look forward to your response.

Looking Forward Mary!
 

amadeus

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Hi,

So the "evidence" that God has spoken truth to us is in the heart of the person who received it? If my heart tells me I received The Truth from God and that you are wrong.....does that automatically make you wrong since I know it from my heart?
What is in your heart if it came from God is truth if you received it because you loved the truth no matter I say about it one way or the other. And if a person did not love the truth what would he receive from God?

"And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness." II Thess 2:10-12


How do we determine who has received the truth from God? Since so many men say so many different things about God/scripture and all these different things/beliefs have divided Christianity; how do we determine which man received the truth from God? Who decides?
Only God's decision matters. Who does He shares His decision about a person with?

As you see as per the verses I quoted above from II Thess, even an individual in himself may be deluded because he did not really have a love for truth, no matter what is was or was not. This is why it is so important for every person to check in with God daily and often each day. The apostle Paul writes:

"Rejoice in the Lord always: and again I say, Rejoice." Phil 4:4

And also:

"Pray without ceasing." I Thess 5:17


If a court of men, lets say you and your four closest Christian friends whom you believe are part of the community of believers chosen by God, all agree that abortion is murder and I disagree with you then according to your theory I could be right. According to your theory I could be right since in my heart I know that God told me I am right. :)
Mary

Hypothetical situations don't always discover God's truth. Continuous communication with God and obedience to what He speaks to us is the only way any one of us will always be right no matter what anyone else is doing or saying.
 

Marymog

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What is in your heart if it came from God is truth if you received it because you loved the truth no matter I say about it one way or the other. And if a person did not love the truth what would he receive from God?

"And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness." II Thess 2:10-12



Only God's decision matters. Who does He shares His decision about a person with?

As you see as per the verses I quoted above from II Thess, even an individual in himself may be deluded because he did not really have a love for truth, no matter what is was or was not. This is why it is so important for every person to check in with God daily and often each day. The apostle Paul writes:

"Rejoice in the Lord always: and again I say, Rejoice." Phil 4:4

And also:

"Pray without ceasing." I Thess 5:17




Hypothetical situations don't always discover God's truth. Continuous communication with God and obedience to what He speaks to us is the only way any one of us will always be right no matter what anyone else is doing or saying.
Thank you.
 

bbyrd009

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By the Spirit of God in us. Are we not His sheep? Do we not recognize His voice? Do not obey His voice?


Who else but God? Man will often speak his peace but every man that I have known including yours truly has at times spoke out of turn.


I am when I am paying attention and I am obedient.


By the Spirit of God in us. That is where we get the "eyes to see" and the "ears to hear".
sweet


Understand I AM
 

bbyrd009

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What is in your heart if it came from God is truth if you received it because you loved the truth

Am i playing a joke on you if i tell you to stay here for the present? :)

i am, if i know how you will receive it
and i am not, if i know how you will receive it, too
 

amadeus

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What is in your heart if it came from God is truth if you received it because you loved the truth

Am i playing a joke on you if i tell you to stay here for the present? :)

i am, if i know how you will receive it
and i am not, if i know how you will receive it, too
Give God always the glory, my friend, no matter what!
 

bbyrd009

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tabletalk

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When you say people I assume you are speaking of the men who wrote scripture.

Since God "breathed" the truth (scripture) to these men is it not possible that he has revealed the truth of that scripture to us?

Or did God say....here's the truth (scripture), now figure it out...... And BTW when you do figure it out I won't let you know....I'm gonna keep you guessing for thousands of years if you figured it out. You will never know what the truth is.....


Mary

Only two choices, so I'll pick #1.
 

tabletalk

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not sure one can do that with their mouth, either, wadr

Romans 15:6
that you may with one mind and one mouth glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Luke 2:20
Then the shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all the things that they had heard and seen, as it was told them.
 

bbyrd009

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Romans 15:6
that you may with one mind and one mouth glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Luke 2:20
Then the shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all the things that they had heard and seen, as it was told them.
ha, yes, ty
Surely you could quote me where one accepts Jesus with their mouths also, right?
"Lord, Lord."
 

bbyrd009

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Well some people have no voice LOL. That can be read more than one way.
got kicked out of a congregation once for a heartfelt "Praise the Lord anyway" after a beloved (after she died, at least) member got a surgery that was proclaimed "miracle" by the cong a week or so earlier, lots of Huzzah and PTL, etc then. Pretty sure they (and she) were all convinced that Paul looked forward to dying to be "present with the Lord," too. Ok, real sure, bc i asked about that, too.

i was lucky to make it out alive, in hindsight; and i mean literally. Turned out she had not a single cong visitor in hospital, not even the pastor lol; and near as i could gather, no one even liked her, although that could mean anything, and i really couldn't hardly ask at that point, after putting my foot in on the "who saw her in hospital last?" thing