Hi again waynemlj
great post, thanks!(waynemlj;35490)
I think that Siskim did an excellent job to give you a very detailed explanation of God's plan of Salvation through the sending of His beloved Son, Jesus Christ, to become a man and obey the Father always (no sin in Him, like there is in you and me) and to die a horrible death on that cross to pay for our sins.
So do I. But that was not the issue here.
1) You first look at your life, at your soul, not your physical life. You know for SURE that you have thought, spoke, and done things that were wrong. There is a reason why all men do that! Adam, the first man God created, was our representative. He failed to obey God by taking Satan's word and placing it above God's Word. He sinned against God. That caused a terrible loss of spiritual relationship between Adam and God, and so between all men and God.
Yes, I have fully accepted that. It is what I prefer to call my "self- centredness" instead of "God-centredness". And I understand that it is the reason for the gap between us and God. However, I don't accept that sin is a "fault" in us that God did not intend because that means God made us faulty. But he didn't, he made precisely how he wanted us to be, i.e. capable of sin. But if that is the case, then there is a purpose in sin. And if there is a purpose then God is going to teach it to us - which means there is a need for interactive communication with God, i.e. the "personal relationship". I don't have one, but I want one!
2) If you see and admit the truth of this to God, you have the starting point for what you are seeking. If someone tells me, "You must be 'Saved' by Jesus Christ in order to go to heaven and live in eternal happiness with God, my first question would be, "Saved from what?"I must have a clear answer to that before I can get interested in Jesus. The answer is 'Saved from God.' That means Saved from God's Holy wrath (terrible anger and hatred of Sin)!
OK. I have always accepted that faith in Jesus is the cornerstone of our faith because the bible says so. But I also understand that faith itself is a gift from God and not our own personal decision. I have the belief because I read it in the Bible, but I do not have the
conviction of faith because I do not have the confirmation from a "personal realtionship" with Jesus!
3) God is Just. He MUST punish that disobedience we are all guilty of. He will not sweep it under a rug and forgive us by pretending it never occurred. SO, He made a Covenant with Jesus, His Son, before the world was even created to send Jesus to be born of a virgin (Mary) BUT NOT OF A HUMAN FATHER! Jesus is the only man after Adam who was born by The Holy Spirit (the third person of God)! That's important because that means Jesus did NOT inherit that darkened spiritual condition of separation from God that all mankind is born with.
This is an interesting issue in its own right. I have often pondered WHY God HAS to punish. He teaches us to be able to forgive - forgiveness does NOT demand punishment. So why couldn't God have simply forgiven without punishment? However, that is another issue...let's not complicate things
4) Jesus was always sinless in His thoughts, words, and deeds. He was, therefore, a fitting representative for you and me (and all mankind) before God the Father. Our NEW representative could take all our sins upon Himself on that cross at Calvary because He was worthy to offer Himself to God IN OUR PLACE. That sacrifice takes away sin from ALL who will believe that Truth. AND that sacrifice transfers to believers Christ's righteousness as if it were our own -- as if WE HAD NEVER SINNED. The punishment went to Jesus Christ; the wrath of God's justice is satisfied and the believer goes free and receives Eternal life through Christ instead of Eternal Damnation (which we all deserve).
Agree again, but this is still not the issue! I accept the value of Christ's sacrifice. However, as yet another side issue, I have often wondered how this works. I mean, OK, his death paid the price of our sin, but it doesn't make me a non-sinner. Something else must happen at some stage that we also become sin-free. Heaven (or rather the New Earth?) is not a place of sinners who are constantly forgiven, it is sin-free - but I am still left without a "personal relationship" here!!!
5) Kalixx, a relationship with Jesus Christ is not a 'feeling.' It's an unbelievable sense that we have come to see of God's wonderful Love that He (both Father and Son) would go through all that in order to Save from the torments of Eternal Hell all who will simply believe that His Word is True -- every bit of it.
OK!!!!! So here we go! We are getting closer to the point here
You say that there is no feeling involved. OK, that sounds credible to be - and I accept that faith has to be "live" in the sense that one truly believes in all that we have talked about above. But what does it mean to you when people say they have Jesus in their heart? Is this nothing more than this live personal faith in an external God, or do you believe there is a presense there that is not part of you, or driven by you?
6) Ask God to forgive you, too, (as He has done for millions), for sinning against Him. Then, ask Him to take your soul to Himself through the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross. Then, think of the Scripture above, and rest in that. God will give you an inner peace that you have never known. That's the relationship you desire. Be honest with Him -- naming to Him in prayer all the wrongs of your life that you are guilty of as you are able to recall them, and rest in His forgiveness. It's REAL!
Hmmm, this takes us back to the beginning. I have done that more than I could describe in words. I have been through this process many times with my wife and have encouraged and helped others do the same. My wife has a relationship and thepeace you describe, others have found the same. I have not!!! I have an empty space and a restless heart that cannot find peace in anything!Actually, your reply was very encouraging. I am not ashamed to say that my faith is actually kept alive more from the testimony of others than from my own experience. Without the consistent testimony of people like you I would have dropped God a long time back. Now I just echo those famous words in Mark's gospel: Mk 9:24