Why did God love and forgive David so?

amadeus · Dec 14, 2017

Stranger said:
Consider this also. (Rev. 2:6) "But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate." (Rev. 2:15) "So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.

God hates the thing [doctrine of Nicolaitians] but does He hate everyone that holds it?

Concerning (John 3:16), God so loved the 'world'. This speaks to the world order, not every individual in the world. The individual is found in the 'whosoever'. We are told later, (1 John 2:15), to "Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him."

When I read the word, world, in the scripture it always makes me think of the world of each person although there may be another connotation of that word [world] also at times intended. The world of me was corrupted and full of corrupted when I met Jesus. But in this verse, John 3:16, because of the wording of the verse it indeed seems to have another meaning than this individual world of you or me. But... I would hardly think that God loved "world order". God has His own order and it is not what men have made by their own efforts on planet Earth.

Consider Christ's prayer. (John 17:6) "I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world:...." (17:8) "...they have believed that thou didst sen me." (17:9) "I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine." (17:20) "Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;"

Stranger

Who was given by the Father to Jesus? Who was not?
The eleven were given to Jesus, but Judas Iscariot was not. Are you saying that Judas alone of the twelve was born without hope?

Pisteuo · Dec 14, 2017

I see a picture of Israel when this subject of Gods love comes up. How they turned on Him time and again and His love was always there. They did everything under the sun against Him and He still loved them. We are Israel today. But we don't define His love for us, He does. If someone done to us what we do to God daily we would have cut them off long ago. We step out of His will today much like they did then, seeing to our own desires and imaginations. He doesn't love what we do, but no doubt He vehemently loves us in a way few will ever comprehend. Not in a deserving kind of away, imo which makes it hard for us to grasp or accept. We think 2 dimensional it seems where love and hate are concerned. But to give Him many reasons to hate me and know He still loves me takes a new way of thinking that's been foreign to me most of my life. Even if I believed I understood it. Peace

amadeus · Dec 14, 2017

mjrhealth said:
Bigger question,, how can love hate, they are complete opposites, either God is love or He is not, which is it???

And what is this Love, which is God?

"Charity [Love] suffereth long, and is kind; charity[Love] envieth not; charity [Love] vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things." I Cor 13:4-7

Those verses say nothing to me about Love being unable to hate. Perhaps our difficulty is in understanding what God means by hate?

Luk_6:32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.

another one

Mat_5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

now How is it that God would expect us to do something He Himself will not do???

Did not God love us while we were still lost in our sins? Did He hate us at that point when we had only an unseen hope?

When we came to faith and walked in it then we had something more did He then begin to love us?

Richard_oti · Dec 14, 2017

amadeus said:
Who was given by the Father to Jesus? Who was not?
The eleven were given to Jesus, but Judas Iscariot was not. Are you saying that Judas alone of the twelve was born without hope?

Joh 6:70 Jesus answered them, Did not I choose you the twelve, and one of you is a devil?

Joh 17:12 While I was with them, I kept them in thy name which thou hast given me: and I guarded them, and not one of them perished, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

Of course, I have yet to find that particular "Scripture", not that I have spent much time looking into that. Perhaps someone here has insight as to what Scripture was being fulfilled.

bbyrd009 · Dec 14, 2017

Pisteuo said:
But to give Him many reasons to hate me and know He still loves me takes a new way of thinking that's been foreign to me most of my life. Even if I believed I understood it.

ya, me too.
a parent can love a child, and the child might still be in hell i guess

bbyrd009 · Dec 14, 2017

Richard_oti said:
Perhaps someone here has insight as to what Scripture was being fulfilled.

Psalms 41:9
apparently

Richard_oti · Dec 14, 2017

bbyrd009 said:
Psalms 41:9
apparently

Oh yeah, I forgot about that one. Thanks.

Yet, identified as one that was trusted, yet already known as a devil long before ...

ScottA · Dec 14, 2017

Richard_oti said:
Of course, I have yet to find that particular "Scripture", not that I have spent much time looking into that. Perhaps someone here has insight as to what Scripture was being fulfilled.

Psalm 63:4
Thus I will bless You while I live; I will lift up my hands in Your name.

amadeus · Dec 14, 2017

Richard_oti said:
Joh 17:12 While I was with them, I kept them in thy name which thou hast given me: and I guarded them, and not one of them perished, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

Of course, I have yet to find that particular "Scripture", not that I have spent much time looking into that. Perhaps someone here has insight as to what Scripture was being fulfilled.

And also:

"Let his days be few; and let another take his office.
Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow.
Let his children be continually vagabonds, and beg: let them seek their bread also out of their desolate places." Psalm 109:8-10

Stranger · Dec 14, 2017

"ByGrace" said:
Agree that Love is not God, but God IS Love! period.

We all know 1 John 4:7-10 backward.
"Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love."
Love is His nature.
But in all this something else is being said too.
And I don't even try to understand it...

"Let us love one another". The emphasis here is not to love without direction. But "everyone that loveth is born of God". So God is love. But that is not all that God is. You believe that God is love because it says so in the Scripture, and that is what you want. You refuse to believe that God can hate, even though it says so in the Scripture because that is not what you or others want.

Don't be like others who, because they don't like it won't believe it. Trust the Scriptures. You will be the minority, but a minority with God.

Stranger

Stranger · Dec 14, 2017

amadeus said:
God hates the thing [doctrine of Nicolaitians] but does He hate everyone that holds it?

When I read the word, world, in the scripture it always makes me think of the world of each person although there may be another connotation of that word [world] also at times intended. The world of me was corrupted and full of corrupted when I met Jesus. But in this verse, John 3:16, because of the wording of the verse it indeed seems to have another meaning than this individual world of you or me. But... I would hardly think that God loved "world order". God has His own order and it is not what men have made by their own efforts on planet Earth.

Who was given by the Father to Jesus? Who was not?
The eleven were given to Jesus, but Judas Iscariot was not. Are you saying that Judas alone of the twelve was born without hope?

Does God hate? You said God hates the thing. So you recognize that God does hate. Is that correct?

Stranger

Miss Hepburn · Dec 14, 2017

bbyrd009 said:
ha wanna bet

Human love can hate...why? Because it is it's nature to not be Divine Love...
There is a difference. God's Divine Love is different..how do I know?
I asked my Father for His Divine Love for 2 years...it isn't human love, brotherly love,
romantic love, puppy love, emotional love, dysfunctional love...
Ask for this Divine Love...and if anyone does ...maybe we can share the enormous
humility it takes and what it put us thru.

amadeus · Dec 14, 2017

DPMartin said:
The problem is most people that go on and on and on about God is love and Hs love is unconditional think they know what love is because they love something. Well if you love wickedness then how is that God like? If you love your family and friends, so what, the wicked do also.

A real question for each one of us is, How well do we know God if we know Him at all? If we do not know Him at all then perhaps we also do not know at all what love is. If, on the other hand, we do know God in a measure then wouldn't it follow that we only know what love is in that measure?

So who among those who know God in a measure would presume they exactly know what it means when it is written that God hates? Perhaps we can correctly say that we should love what God loves and hate what He hates, but do we really know so perfectly well what those things are to enable us to walk in His shoes?

But just what is it that God loves? Because the scripture verifies that there are things and people He hates. Just because God is love, doesn’t mean He loves everything, and doesn’t mean His love is unconditional.

ok...

When it comes down to it, He loves the fulfillment of His Word according to His satisfaction. And the whole bible shows that. He loved Abraham and gave His Word to Abraham and if you’ve haven’t notice Israel is back some 37 hundred years later. Despite all that Israel did. Hence its His Word He loves, note the same was made flesh and is His Beloved Son.

The fulfillment of God's Word is something that simply happens. Whether or not you or I or some other guy are involved in its accomplishment and how we are involved makes a difference to us because of God's judgment on us.

"So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it." Isaiah 55:11

Note in the following that hearing God’s Word supersedes what we usually see as the first commandment:

Mar 12:28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? 29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. 31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

Stop and think about that. How could His Word supersede those commandments which are part of His Word? The Word does not supersede the Word. God does not supersede God.

When the Creator and Judge made things in His creation, it was through His Word, He spoke and He saw that it was good. That which refuses to hear and or follow through in the fulfillment of His Word is hated. You can bet on that. It can be forgiven under the “Grace” if one repents but notice that the Grace must be granted. Mercy must be granted and repentance accepted.

I am thinking about the part I changed to bold type. It may be so, but I would not bet on it in any case although I get your meaning.

So, the “God having unconditional love” theology, is taught by those who would have you think that there is no need to meet any conditions what so ever.

For example, there are churches that promote the notion that one can not only be gay but continue practicing the same and its alright with God because His love is unconditional. And if the same was told that no God’s love is conditional the bible says so over and over. You are a what after that?

I am not disagreeing with you and I certainly don't like using the word "unconditional" carelessly with regard to God.

A bigot a bully a white raciest any thing the world has tagged and redefined for its purpose of bring Christianity down to, you can be anything you chose, and be a Christian, oh yea don’t forget to bring that warm and fuzzy supportive disposition as though everyone you talk to is 5 years old.

You are speaking of the changed and changing definition of Christianity according to men. Unbelievers do not know what Christianity is supposed to be. Many believers probably would disagree on what Christianity is supposed to be.

It comes down to many believers also likely disagreeing on what Christ is or is not.

Miss Hepburn · Dec 14, 2017

"ByGrace" said:
Agree that Love is not God, but God IS Love! period.

This is such a delicate or subtle point.
I got confused about a decade ago..if someone showers me with pure love...a family member that has known me since I was a baby and I dare say, before...can I look at them and 'see'...that
Oh my gosh, this.....this is God...coming thru them like an invisible smoke or vapor like a bouquet ..is love...and
being presented in front of me is God.
God as spirit in the form of love is coming thru others as this gooey, real l-o-v-e...going into my heart !

I have realized when people feel L-o-v-e...they do not have to realize it themselves...
but it is God...the essence and nature and being of God.
There would be no love if not for God..love actually is God.
No one needs to agree...it is experiential.
It has been my personal exp.♡

amadeus · Dec 14, 2017

Stranger said:
Does God hate? You said God hates the thing. So you recognize that God does hate. Is that correct?

Stranger

Yes!
"And God saw everything that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day." Gen 1:31
God loved all that was "very good". But man using his ability to go against God perverted part of the "very good" making things and even people hateful. God hated them and so should we if we are able to know what they are. When a person becomes unredeemable, it is not because there is nothing good left in him?
Remember what Jesus said?
"And He said to him, Why do you call Me good? There is none good but one, that is, God... " Matt 19:17

When God made man He made the man like himself:
"This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;" Gen 5:1

So man was also "very good" until he perverted himself. Still man retained some of the "good" that was God in him, but he was no longer "very good". That would not happen to anyone until Jesus made it a possibility. When any man makes himself completely hateful to God, so there is no longer any remaining good, then will not God hate the man? That is where Esau was in the end, but God knew it from the beginning. That is where the reprobate [one who commits unforgivable sin] is at the end although God knew it from the beginning.

aspen · Dec 14, 2017

I hated it when my dog chewed up my computer cord, but i can seperate typical dog behavior from my feelings for my dog......something tells me God can also separate his feelings for my typical fallen behavior from His feelings for me. We are in training to be full citizens of his kingdom - it is in everyones best interest.

If He really took his fallible creations sins, personally, He would be falible too.

Helen · Dec 14, 2017

Miss Hepburn said:
This is such a delicate or subtle point.
I got confused about a decade ago..if someone showers me with pure love...a family member that has known me since I was a baby and I dare say, before...can I look at them and 'see'...that
Oh my gosh, this.....this is God...coming thru them like an invisible smoke or vapor like a bouquet ..is love...and
being presented in front of me is God.
God as spirit in the form of love is coming thru others as this gooey, real l-o-v-e...going into my heart !

I have realized when people feel L-o-v-e...they do not have to realize it themselves...
but it is God...the essence and nature and being of God.
There would be no love if not for God..love actually is God.
No one needs to agree...it is experiential.
It has been my personal exp.♡

Amen..that was lovely...good post.

mjrhealth · Dec 15, 2017

amadeus said:
Did not God love us while we were still lost in our sins? Did He hate us at that point when we had only an unseen hope?

When we came to faith and walked in it then we had something more did He then begin to love us?

God created us because of love, God sent Jesus to the cross, because of Love, Jesus went to the cross for us willingly because of Love, God cannot hate, if HE did, than he would not be Love. God loved me before I was born and HE will Love me because of who He is, not because of anything I do or have ever done, there is not anything we can do that will ever change the way God loves us. thats just who God is. No man will veer be able to say that God loves him because of what he did, because none will boast, none.

Stranger · Dec 15, 2017

amadeus said:
Yes!
"And God saw everything that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day." Gen 1:31
God loved all that was "very good". But man using his ability to go against God perverted part of the "very good" making things and even people hateful. God hated them and so should we if we are able to know what they are. When a person becomes unredeemable, it is not because there is nothing good left in him?
Remember what Jesus said?
"And He said to him, Why do you call Me good? There is none good but one, that is, God... " Matt 19:17

When God made man He made the man like himself:
"This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;" Gen 5:1

So man was also "very good" until he perverted himself. Still man retained some of the "good" that was God in him, but he was no longer "very good". That would not happen to anyone until Jesus made it a possibility. When any man makes himself completely hateful to God, so there is no longer any remaining good, then will not God hate the man? That is where Esau was in the end, but God knew it from the beginning. That is where the reprobate [one who commits unforgivable sin] is at the end although God knew it from the beginning.

And since God knew Jacob and Esau from the beginning, then he would love Jacob and hate Esau from the beginning. As I said earlier, God loved David because David was one of His.

Stranger

bbyrd009 · Dec 15, 2017

amadeus said:
"Let his days be few; and let another take his office.
Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow.
Let his children be continually vagabonds, and beg: let them seek their bread also out of their desolate places." Psalm 109:8-10

seems harsh, but then that is Law i guess

Why did God love and forgive David so?

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