Baptism

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mjrhealth

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Soooo - why is it that you believe that Joseph was "much older" than Mary based on this document - yet you reject her Perpetual Virginity - ALSO based on this document??
Religion that all you preach

1Ti_4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

its all yours,
 

BreadOfLife

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Religion that all you preach

1Ti_4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

its all yours,
Since you have been exposed here yet still refuse to respond - I will ask you again so that everybody here can see your hypocrisy:
Why is it that you believe that Joseph was "much older" than Mary based on this NON-BIBLICAL document (Protoevangelium of James)- yet you reject her Perpetual Virginity - ALSO based on this NON-BIBLICAL document??
 

mjrhealth

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Oh so your yelling again, why are you so mad, Mary was not a perpetual virgin of that you have no proof, she is not God, what happened after Jesus birth with her has no bearing on ones salvation, this is what happens when men worship idols. As i said you have nothing to offer but your religion, for that is all you preach, you religions doctrines even when they disagree with teh bible, you could care less that you are causing men to stumble and leading them into prison, Jesus came to set men free, teh religious come to lock them up.

You have already stated that we are not liars, so that makes teh only lies being exposed are your own. You have dug yourself a deep hole BOL, I can only hope Jesus gets you out of it soon, but I am not so sure you would like the truth, you would have to loose your religion, and that I dont think you want.

You have nothing to offer.
 
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FHII

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The apocryphal book known as the Gospel of James is nothing more than a fairy tale at worst or historical fiction at best.

I do believe Mary was young when she had Jesus. Throwing out a number: 16. She would've been around 56 when Jesus began his ministry. She was following him around. If she were 26 when she had Jesus she would've been 69 when he died. And she was still travelling with him.

Joseph.. No idea. But the plan was to marry her. He obviously had a job as he was travelling to be taxed. They were travelling alone (so the elder step brothers of Jesus is in doubt... As well as the fact they tried to take refuge at an inn... Why not a family member?)

But bottom line... The James Gospel is nothing more than a fairy tale. Historically speaking, I suspect it was wrotten to get women more excited. In other words, they created a wonder woman super hero in the gospel.

She alreasy was great.. No need for a fairy tale.
 
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BreadOfLife

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Oh so your yelling again, why are you so mad, Mary was not a perpetual virgin of that you have no proof, she is not God, what happened after Jesus birth with her has no bearing on ones salvation, this is what happens when men worship idols. As i said you have nothing to offer but your religion, for that is all you preach, you religions doctrines even when they disagree with teh bible, you could care less that you are causing men to stumble and leading them into prison, Jesus came to set men free, teh religious come to lock them up.

You have already stated that we are not liars, so that makes teh only lies being exposed are your own. You have dug yourself a deep hole BOL, I can only hope Jesus gets you out of it soon, but I am not so sure you would like the truth, you would have to loose your religion, and that I dont think you want.

You have nothing to offer.
So you can't address your apparent hypocrisy, hmmm?

How can you sit there with a straight face and and tell me that Joseph was "much older" than Mary - when you reject that she was a perpetual virgin. BOTH of those claims are from the very SAME 2nd century document - The Protoevangelium of James??
Your hypocrisy knows absolutely no bounds . . .

Anyway - I haven't "yelled" - not even once.
"Yelling" in the written form requires exclamation points (!!!). Sounds like you know the rules of English grammar about as much as you know Scripture - which is to say, very little . . ..
 

BreadOfLife

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The apocryphal book known as the Gospel of James is nothing more than a fairy tale at worst or historical fiction at best.

I do believe Mary was young when she had Jesus. Throwing out a number: 16. She would've been around 56 when Jesus began his ministry. She was following him around. If she were 26 when she had Jesus she would've been 69 when he died. And she was still travelling with him.

Joseph.. No idea. But the plan was to marry her. He obviously had a job as he was travelling to be taxed. They were travelling alone (so the elder step brothers of Jesus is in doubt... As well as the fact they tried to take refuge at an inn... Why not a family member?)

But bottom line... The James Gospel is nothing more than a fairy tale. Historically speaking, I suspect it was wrotten to get women more excited. In other words, they created a wonder woman super hero in the gospel.

She alreasy was great.. No need for a fairy tale.
Where do you get the idea that the Protoevangelium of James is a "fairy tale"??

Just because something isn't inspired Scripture doesn't make it a myth. Were the writings of the Early Church Fathers "fairy tales"?? Many of them refer to the Protoevangelium as evidence in their debates. By your standard, every historical document that was written before you were born is a "fairy tale" because it isn't Scripture.
That's pretty silly view to hold . . .

Finally, as to Joseph's age. The ONLY reason we know that he was older is because of what is written in the Protoevangelium of James. Your arguments about his having no previous children because he was traveling alone with Mary don't hold water because his kids could have been on their own by this time.

Don't be so quick to dismiss the writings of the Early Church just because they aren't part of Scripture and can't reconcile your Protestant beliefs . . .
 
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truth333

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1. Who cares
2. It is irrelevant
3. It will add nothing to your salvation wheter they where or not.
4. This will just end up another we believe nonsense discussions which is where they all end up.
5. Does nothing to Edify or glorify God.

In fact teh bible speaks nothing of Mary being baptized, as for teh disciples seems teh only mention form what I recall, is teh baptism of fire when teh Holy Spirit fell upon them.

Ho Hum here we go again.

Water baptism is not irrelevant, in fact, it is mandatory for salvation.

John 3:5 Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

1 John 5:6-8 This is he that came by water and blood, Jesus Christ: not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit which testifieth, that Christ is the truth. And there are three who give testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. And these three are one. And there are three that give testimony on earth: the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three are one.
As I schooled you before . . .

In Scripture - "Adelphos(oi)" is applied to cousins, uncles, nephews and kinsmen alike. The Aramaic word, “ach”, encompasses the meanings for brother of same parents, half-brother (same father), relative, kinship, same tribe, and even a fellow countryman.

Furthermore, there was no term for the word “cousin” in the Aramaic language that Jesus spoke. When the Old Testament was translated into Greek in the centuries before the birth of Christ (the Septuagint), the words “adelphos” and “adelphoi” were used in places where “ach” was. This is why we have many examples in the Septuagint of the following:

In Gen. 14:14, Lot is called Abraham’s "brother", even though he was Abraham’s nephew (Gen. 11:26–28).

In Gen. 29:15, Jacob is referred to as the "brother" of his uncle Laban.

Brothers Kish and Eleazar were the sons of Mahli. Kish had sons of his own, but Eleazar’s daughters married their "brethren”, the sons of Kish - who were actually their cousins (1 Chr. 23:21–22).

In the New Testament - the word "Adelphos" and all of its variations is used 344 times.
41 times (12%), it is clearly used to describe uterine siblings.
47 times (14%), it may or may not be referring to uterine siblings.
A whopping 256 times (74%) it cannot or certainly does not refer to uterine siblings.

I eagerly await your response . . .

Hi BOL, regarding the truth pertaining to extended family or even close friends, you are exactly right. All of them were considered and referred, as brothers and sisters. I am glad that you brought up the point about Abraham and Lot and also Jacob and Laban. Laban was the brother of Rebecca, who married Isaac, giving birth to Jacob.

Its very unfortunate, that most prefer to follow their own private ideas about God, instead of what God wants us to hold and believe.

Jeremias 10:23 I know, O Lord, that the way of a man is not his: neither is it in a man to walk, and to direct his steps.

Proverbs 16:25 There is a way that seemeth to a man right: and the ends thereof lead to death.
 

truth333

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Gold represents the nature of God.
Silver represents redemption..
Bronze represents Judgement...which Jesus became for us...sin being judged on the cross and our freedom purchased. Etc

No, that is not the true allegory of the real and true event in the old testament. The allegory of the serpent on the pole [standard], pointed right to Jesus on the Holy Cross.

Numbers 21:8 And the Lord said to him: Make brazen serpent, and set it up for a sign: whosoever being struck shall look on it, shall live.

John 3:14-15 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the desert, so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him, may not perish; but may have life everlasting.

Besides the old and the new, shown together in the gospel of John, look at the parallel language between the old and the new testament, having the same effect.

shall look on it, shall live
.

believeth in him, may not perish ...

Jesus, who was just, died for the unjust, taking sin unto Himself, becoming as sin, unto the likeness of a serpent. Jesus died the most ignominious death possible!

Isaias 53:1-7 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed? And he shall grow up as a tender plant before him, and as a root out of a thirsty ground: there is no beauty in him, nor comeliness: and we have seen him, and there was no sightliness, that we should be desirous of him: Despised, and the most abject of men, a man of sorrows, and acquainted with infirmity: and his look was as it were hidden and despised, whereupon we esteemed him not. Surely he hath borne our infirmities and carried our sorrows: and we have thought him as it were a leper, and as one struck by God and afflicted. But he was wounded for our iniquities, he was bruised for our sins: the chastisement of our peace was upon him, and by his bruises we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray, every one hath turned aside into his own way: and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. He was offered because it was his own will, and he opened not his mouth: he shall be led as a sheep to the slaughter, and shall be dumb as a lamb before his shearer, and he shall not open his mouth.
 

truth333

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Haha! Says you!! :)

And the usual answer is..."And what about the thief on the cross?" No water up there on his cross! :)

It is typical of protesters, they know nothing of scripture. The good thief was saved under the old law. The new testament law began at Pentecost i.e. Acts chapter 1 and 2.

John 3:5 Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

It is beyond me, how protesters ignore the simple and plain language of the bible to their own damnation.
 

bbyrd009

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And the usual answer is..."And what about the thief on the cross?" No water up there on his cross! :)
except the water he was born in, yup
we quickly forget that the ritual is supposed to be a profession, a declaration of a spiritual rebirth, not a birth per se. Iow the spiritual rebirth may or may not occur at all, and the ritual has the same force as something you might say with your mouth, "i profess/declare this" iow
 
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amadeus

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It is typical of protesters, they know nothing of scripture. The good thief was saved under the old law. The new testament law began at Pentecost i.e. Acts chapter 1 and 2.

John 3:5 Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

It is beyond me, how protesters ignore the simple and plain language of the bible to their own damnation.
The language of scripture is simple in the message that God is sending to an open heart. It is an indecipherable parable to one who searches it for the wrong purpose.
 

mjrhealth

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John 3:5 Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Well are you too going to be the one that demands God kicks all these people out of heaven because they where not baptised,??? I think Not. Based on mens rules. no one will ever make it into heaven, because according to mens rules, we will never be good enough...
 
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truth333

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Well are you too going to be the one that demands God kicks all these people out of heaven because they where not baptised,??? I think Not. Based on mens rules. no one will ever make it into heaven, because according to mens rules, we will never be good enough...

Based upon one Man's rule, Jesus Christ, True God and True Man, says;

John 3:5 Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
 

mjrhealth

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Based upon one Man's rule, Jesus Christ, True God and True Man, says;

John 3:5 Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
When mankind stops interfering with Gods business and allows God to do what He needs to do, it will all end, but seems more christians are praying for Him not to come than for Him Jesus to come. Like I said, why dont you go demand of Him to kick out all those who are in heaven because they where not baptized, i doubt seriously He will agree with you, it will just stop you from entering in, when He says, "why should i let you in, when you will not let these in". But like so many christians, "why doesnt God do anything", ?? Simple you made all these rules that stop Him. and that truth is the truth.
 
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amadeus

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Well are you too going to be the one that demands God kicks all these people out of heaven because they where not baptised,??? I think Not. Based on mens rules. no one will ever make it into heaven, because according to mens rules, we will never be good enough...
There is nothing wrong with the scripture, but there is a lot wrong with what people pull out of it to support their own ways... even calling them "God's Way".
 

amadeus

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and the first one whispers, while the second one rages, huh
And which one was of God?

"And he said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the LORD. And, behold, the LORD passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before the LORD; but the LORD was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the LORD was not in the earthquake:
And after the earthquake a fire; but the LORD was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice." I Kings 19:11-12

1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
 
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