The Godhead, Diversified Oneness

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skypair

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We are really starting to go our separate ways here, 101G. In the case of the 3 shall not taste death till you see the kingdom, two of them are the same prophecy — and were fulfilled at the mount of transfiguration that immediately followed. There they saw Jesus, Moses, and Elijah in their "kingdom of God" glorified bodies. The one in Jn 21:22 was fulfilled in the rapture of John in Rev 4:1. You've got the idea that at least 4 people should have lived 2000 years or either your alternate explanation all wrong. The first return is the rapture where we meet Him in the air (1Thes 4:16-17). The second is the 2nd coming, Rev 19.

The problems of your tribulation views are beyond my ability to answer since you have "booked" yourself up to your own satisfaction. :(

skypair
 

101G

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We are really starting to go our separate ways here, 101G. In the case of the 3 shall not taste death till you see the kingdom, two of them are the same prophecy — and were fulfilled at the mount of transfiguration that immediately followed. There they saw Jesus, Moses, and Elijah in their "kingdom of God" glorified bodies. The one in Jn 21:22 was fulfilled in the rapture of John in Rev 4:1. You've got the idea that at least 4 people should have lived 2000 years or either your alternate explanation all wrong. The first return is the rapture where we meet Him in the air (1Thes 4:16-17). The second is the 2nd coming, Rev 19.

The problems of your tribulation views are beyond my ability to answer since you have "booked" yourself up to your own satisfaction. :(

skypair
first thanks for the reply. second the transfiguration was a vision.
third the the rapture is in bodily form of Christ. fourth the Power of the Kingdom came on Pentecost.
fifth no one have glorified bodies before the Christ. and at the transfiguration, which was a vision as said, Christ had not resurrected yet. so no, your assessment is just not correct.

Hope that helped.

PCJ
 

101G

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Let's finish up on you last two posts of #141, and #142
BUT the Holy Ghost was "with" them as you noted. He was the pre-incarnate Son — His bodily form was the 2nd Person of the Trinity. He wrestled with Jacob, was in the fiery furnace with the Shadrach and bro's (King Nebby even referred to Him as the "Son of God". :) Yes, He appeared many times in the OT but He could not be "in" them.

(He appeared many times in the OT but He could not be "in" them). skypair, did you not read the scriptures? listen. 1 Peter 1:11 "Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow" the Spirit of Christ, the Holy Spirit was IN them. another clear example. was not John the Baptist father filled with the Holy Ghost? Luke 1:67 "And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying". I don't thing you fill on the outside. and Zacharias was in the OT, or under the OT covenant.

Now, as you said, we're separating, true, but let's stay on topic. "The Godhead" and there will be no separating.
Right. And what is the Holy Spirit? The Word of God .. the OT. But the Spirit only revealed His suffering. What would "wounded for our transgressions" mean to an OT saint? Stuff like that was yet to be understood b/c all they knew was that when Messiah would come, their sins would be forgiven.
Now you're getting back on tract. the HOLY SPIRIT is the Word of God who is the LORD JESUS (John 1:1). I think I been saying that.

what they didn't understand was exactly what the apostle peter said in chapter 1 and verse 10b " the glory that should follow". the glorification of the Holy Spirit in flesh with all POWER. and yes, their sins would be forgiven, because the Spirit said it in his word. Jeremiah 31:34 "And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more".

I believe we had a very good dialogue. now, may I ask a few question to you concering the Godhead.

My First question is this. who is the First and the Last. please not these scriptures before you answer. OT Isaiah 41:4, Isaiah 44:6, Isaiah 48:12. NT Revelation 1:11, Revelation 1:17, Revelation 22:13.

Looking to hear from you.

PCJ
 

skypair

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first thanks for the reply. second the transfiguration was a vision.
So you are saying that it really didn't happen that Jesus, Moses, and Elijah were there? Was it Jesus, then, that led them up the mount and led them down .. or was that a vision, too?

third the the rapture is in bodily form of Christ. fourth the Power of the Kingdom came on Pentecost.
Sure and sure, the power of the Holy Ghost.

fifth no one have glorified bodies before the Christ. and at the transfiguration, which was a vision as said, Christ had not resurrected yet. so no, your assessment is just not correct.
Do you believe that God has the power to make His kingdom appear as He wishes or as you wish?

skypair
 

skypair

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skypair, did you not read the scriptures? listen. 1 Peter 1:11 "Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify,
Yes, and what I find is that the "Spirit" of Christ is the knowledge about Him. That is what the Holy Spirit is. It is the Word of God (OT and NT) that reveals the truth about God — but it does not give understanding of God. That only comes from the Holy Ghost of Christ. So the knowledge of Christ was in them .. but it was mostly in "mystery" as, for example, Isa 53.
another clear example. was not John the Baptist father filled with the Holy Ghost? Luke 1:67 "And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost,
Now Zacharias WAS filled with the knowledge (Holy Spirit, he quotes the OT) and understanding (the Holy Ghost) that Messiah, Jesus, was coming and what His mission would be.

skypair
 

101G

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So you are saying that it really didn't happen that Jesus, Moses, and Elijah were there? Was it Jesus, then, that led them up the mount and led them down .. or was that a vision, too?
a vision is only a showing of things past present of future. example in the vision of Ezekiel, the vision of the valley of dry bones, was it at the time of the showing, past present or future. well of course future.

Do you believe that God has the power to make His kingdom appear as He wishes or as you wish?
yes, but God is a God of ORDER.
 

101G

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Yes, and what I find is that the "Spirit" of Christ is the knowledge about Him. That is what the Holy Spirit is. It is the Word of God (OT and NT) that reveals the truth about God — but it does not give understanding of God. That only comes from the Holy Ghost of Christ. So the knowledge of Christ was in them .. but it was mostly in "mystery" as, for example, Isa 53.
well skypair, you missed then all that we have been saying.

A. U said, "the "Spirit" of Christ is the knowledge about Him". now only, but wisdon, hence the Pastoral gift in 1 Cor 12:8. understand David the prophet knew/Knowledge, and understood. scripture, Psalms 16:8-10 "I have set the LORD always before me: because he is at my right hand, I shall not be moved. 9 "Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory rejoiceth: my flesh also shall rest in hope. 10 "For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption". David KNEW and UNDERSTOOD.

B. U SAID, "That is what the Holy Spirit is. It is the Word of God (OT and NT) that reveals the truth about God — but it does not give understanding of God". see, here's the mistake many make on the Holy Spirit and the Holy Ghost as two different Spirits. listen, the Holy Spirit is the Holy GHOST of the OT as well as the NEW Testament. example, Hebrews 3:7 "Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice, 8 "Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness: 9 "When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years. 10 "Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. 11 "So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.). who was in the wilderness, and who was tempted in the provocation? the Holy GHOST. now, Psalms 95:6-11 "O come, let us worship and bow down: let us kneel before the LORD our maker. 7 "For he is our God; and we are the people of his pasture, and the sheep of his hand. To day if ye will hear his voice, 8 "Harden not your heart, as in the provocation, and as in the day of temptation in the wilderness: 9 "When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my work. 10 "Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways: 11 "Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest" so it was the LORD who was in the wilderness with them. now the Billion dollar question, "who is the one that was with them in the wilderness, who is our MAKER as Psalms 95:6 say? answer the LORD all caps. well who is the LORD all caps? answer.... Isaiah 54:5 "For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called". the REDEEMER is thy "MAKER" and thy "HUSBAND" who is our MAKER, the LORD and who is our "REDEEMER" JESUS. so it was JESUS in the Wilderness with the children of Israel, the HOLY GHOST. read it again for clarity.

ONE GOD, ONE PERSON, "DIVERSIFIED". glory to God. see, skypair I can come thousand, upon thousand of way to prove that the Lord Jesus is the Holy Spirit, whom is called the Holy Ghost.

C. your the Isaiah chapter 53. U said, "but it does not give understanding of God. That only comes from the Holy Ghost of Christ. So the knowledge of Christ was in them .. but it was mostly in "mystery" as, for example, Isa 53. "The ARM" of God revealed. yes, manifested in the Flesh. and he taught and revealed MYSTERIES. listen, Matthew 13:13-17 "Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. 14 "And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: 15 "For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. 16 "But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear. 17 "For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them". and he gave the parable of the Sower, and he revealed it unto them, as to what the parable was. see, the Lord Jesus as the comforter, the Holy Spirit reveals.
Now Zacharias WAS filled with the knowledge (Holy Spirit, he quotes the OT) and understanding (the Holy Ghost) that Messiah, Jesus, was coming and what His mission would be.
GREAT, you just answered your own question. 100 points.

PCY
 

101G

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It is God in Jesus body .. though I didn't find those verses particularly helpful.
"God in Jesus Body?". well where is Jesus then? see, this is the problem I have been saying all along with the term God. I asked "who" was the First and the Last. now you said God. is not God the Father, the son, and the Holy Spirit according to you. and your doctrine says that the Father is not the son , and the son not the father vice versa with all including the Holy Spirit. so using the term God is none productive, providing that in Revelation identifies the Son as the Fist and the Last. but in Isaiah it says the LORD all Caps is the First and the Last. there is only one First. see the confusion?.

now, as for the Isaiah verses pay close attention as to who is the First/Last.

#1. Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God". "I" is a single designation, is it not?. so when I say WHO, is it the Father, or the Son, or the Holy Spirit within the Godhead who is the FIRST. and when you come to that realization then you will see who is the TRUE and ONLY God.

PCY
 

101G

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GINOLJC to all. @skypair. Since most, not all Christians understand that the Lord Jesus is God in flesh, but many do not understand HOW the Lord Jesus is the only TRUE God in flesh. As I notice you said in one of your answers, it was God in Jesus body. The word God is a generic term for the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Well, let’s clear up this Who as it come the the term or Word God. We’ll discuss the Lord Jesus as the only God in the NT. This will clear up him as the Only God in the OT, and at the same time We can eliminate the Person(s) in the Godhead.

In the book of Acts chapter 9 we have the account of then Saul, now Paul on his way to Damascus to lock up Christians, Right. So let’s see “who” choose Saul on the road to Damascus. Once we understand “WHO” chose Saul as his minister then we will know who the Lord Jesus is, and Not.

Lets start at Acts 9:4-6 "And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? 5 "And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. 6 "And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do”.

Now Saul goes into the city, meets a disciple name Ananias, notice a disciple, not an apostle, or prophet, but a disciple. This is what he told Saul, Acts 9:17 "And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost”. so we know for sure that it was the Lord Jesus who meet Saul on the road. Now the billion dollar question “WHO” chose him/Saul.

This is our discussion premise. "WHO" chose Saul. Some say the father chose Saul for his son Jesus. And they base this on the second account of the story found in Acts 22:12-15 when Saul now Paul came to Jerusalem, listen "And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there, 13 "Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him. 14 "And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth. 15 "For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard “.

Here we have,
A. “The God of our father hath chosen thee”. this is direct reference to the Father of the OT. And in Malachi 2:10 it states, "Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?”. this is clearly speaking of the God of the OT. “WHO” have chosen Saul/Paul.

B. See that Just One, what Paul saw was a light brighter that the sun. this is the Lord Jesus

C. Hear his voice of his mouth. for the book of Hebrews said "Today if we will hear his voice", we can enter into his rest, this is the Holy Spirit.

So clearly it was the Lord Jesus who Saul encountered. But the burning question, who chose Saul? For Ananias said plainly, "The God of our fathers hath chosen thee”, Acts 22:14a. let’s get at the person, or the person(s) in the Godhead. we're going to zero in on what Ananias said. "the God of our fathers hath chosen thee". so "WHO" was it that chose saul

A.The one called Father
B.The one called Son, or
C.The one called the Holy Spirit

Skypair the answer to this question is in the bible, yes it is, once you give your answer we will discuss it. I’ll be looking for your response. By answering this question, we will without a doubt know who is the only TRUE GOD.

PS before you answer the question, read all of the account to be sure of your answer before you answer.

PCY
 

skypair

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a vision is only a showing of things past present of future. example in the vision of Ezekiel, the vision of the valley of dry bones, was it at the time of the showing, past present or future. well of course future.
But, of course, Peter suggested that they build 3 booths as they would only if they thought what they saw was really happening.

skypair
 

101G

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But, of course, Peter suggested that they build 3 booths as they would only if they thought what they saw was really happening.

skypair
first, thanks for the response. second, he built no booth or tabernacles for neither. yes a vision is real but just that a vision. and one can interact with it. but the case here the vision was to show the change in covenant. here we had the prophets represented by Elijah, and the Law, Moses. both, the Law and the prophets foretold of the coming Messiah, who is Christ. Just as John vision in heaven that showed the risen Christ in glorified state after his resurrection, Revelation 5:6 "And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth". understand skypair a vision is mainly for us to understand.
PCY
 

101G

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GINOLJC, to all. @skypar

I believe we had a very good dialogue, and if possible let’s keep the dialogue going.

Let me bring you back to something which is very important. Remember when I ask the First question at the end of Post #163. My First question is this. who is the First and the Last. please note these scriptures before you answer. OT Isaiah 41:4, Isaiah 44:6, Isaiah 48:12. NT Revelation 1:11, Revelation 1:17, Revelation 22:13.

I would like to expand this in combination to post #170. but before I indulge in any of those two questions. The Lord Jesus and I believe it’s time for you to really know the truth about the term “Son” and “Father”.

The terms or titles “Father” and “Son” are titles that shows “Function” as to what Someone is, and not to “Who” they are. Let me explain. the term “Son” is a Function of the Title, just like the title “Father”, a function. understand, I have been telling you all alone that the Lord Jesus is the Son as well as the Father, correct. Let’s take the next Step. The Lord Jesus have no biological nor Spiritual Father, nor is he’s the only begotten of God, in the terms that we understand as Father and son biologically, read that again. I’m saying it this way to shock you. Sometimes it takes a shock to get people attention. So what I’m going to say to you now will be upsetting or surprising, but I’m willing to take the chance. The term “Father” and the term “Son” have nothing to do with biology at all, but with will and the ACT of it. Understand,

#1. The Lord Jesus do not have a “Father” as to “WHO” a person is to him, did you see how I said that. Let that settle in for a moment. Ok, once more, The Lord Jesus do not have a “Father” as to “WHO” a person is TO him. That’s unsettling, am I right, a shocking statement right, seems like it goes against bible, don’t it. Well if we’re to get to the KNOWLEDGE that’s in Christ Jesus then we must RENEW OUR MINDS as the bible tells us. In order to KNOW this KNOWLEDGE as the apostles did, as the disciples did, as well as the early original church member did one must understand the TERMS, “Father” and “Son” as it relates to A. God and B. Man.

I will give you the revelation scriptures to the above statements, for God and Man, and we will discuss them. This might be the most important dialogue of your life. and yes I’m taking a chance in saying what we’re, hopefully about to discuss. Please hear me out, ok. the scriptures for you to mediate on, and go to God, the Lord Jesus, and ask for understanding.

A. Hebrews 1:5 "For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?”. son here is not a title only, but a function of the will, which the title displays.

B. 2 Corinthians 6:17 & 18 "Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, 18 "And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty”. notice the ACT of the will here

Did you notice in A & B that the phase, “I will be a Father”. not that he’s the Father, but is he not the Father of us all?. see where our dialogue will be going.

The term WILL means or is expressing an inevitable events. an inevitable event means certain to happen; unavoidable. being a Father an ACT OF THE WILL? It have nothing to do with biology. Yes, this is now our discussion. The will to be a Father. and this act of a Father is like the term “Love” it’s abstract, not biological. The biological aspect of the term Father is only the manifested or the concrete “WORK” of God in Flesh, which is the G243 allos of God. Now in order to make this discussion worthy of our attention, I suggest you arm yourself with these terms. Father, Son, Partaker, Took part, abstract, concrete, Intrinsic, Spatial, which we will used together, Subjective, Objective, Essence, and Virtue, look these words up and get a general understanding of each. I know that’s a lots, but is needed to continue the dialogue, I know you can do it. In knowing these terms one will easily grasps the answer to these tough question like, when the Lord Jesus was speaking, “the Father is Greater than I”. or “only the Father knows the day and the hour”. well if the Lord Jesus is the Father how come he don’t KNOW these things. See, these mysteries will be revealed, and taught by understanding the knowledge the bible gives us.

So, mediate on these scriptures.
A.Hebrews 1:5 "For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?”.

B. 2 Corinthians 6:17 & 18 "Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, 18 "And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty”.

PS your first tip, being a Father is an ACT OF THE WILL…… this is where the terms "partake" vs "Took Part" comes into play...... (smile). so let’s take it from there.


PCJ
 

skypair

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The terms or titles “Father” and “Son” are titles that shows “Function” as to what Someone is, and not to “Who” they are.
This is the view of the Trinity called "modalism." The 3 Persons of the Trinity are understood to actually be one Person in 3 modes of existence — which discounts the view a) that they are 3 Persons and b) that they have a relationship in which one is subordinate to the other. It is clearly the cast that the Son prayed to the Father, 101G .. that only the Father knows the day of the Son's return, Mt 24, etc.

well if the Lord Jesus is the Father how come he don’t KNOW these things.
Well, the claim of scripture is NEVER that the Son is the Father. The claim is that the Son is God.

Much better to see the as Persons each having the Holy Spirit understanding soul .. an individual knowledge spirit (all truth, mind of the Lord, mind of Christ) according to the role they play in redemption .. each having His own behavioral body in which to carry out the plan of redemption. And man is in their image soul, spirit, and body with the purpose of being redeemed.

What have you read besides the Bible in order to inform your view?

skypair
 

101G

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This is the view of the Trinity called "modalism." The 3 Persons of the Trinity are understood to actually be one Person in 3 modes of existence — which discounts the view a) that they are 3 Persons and b) that they have a relationship in which one is subordinate to the other. It is clearly the cast that the Son prayed to the Father, 101G .. that only the Father knows the day of the Son's return, Mt 24, etc.
skypair, skypair, skypair, so you think what I'm saying is modalism?. there is a proverb that is true, Proverbs 18:13 "He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him". so I'm assuming you must have not heard me at all. but reading your respond, the proverb is true. sometimes we must meet people where they are at.

ok, spkpair, scripture, Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God". here the Lord Jesus is "Equal" with God. fine, now this, Isaiah 46:5 "To whom will ye liken me, and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be like?". ME here is one person. and this, Isaiah 40:25 "To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One".

Now skypair, if you say all three of your persons in your Godhead are co-equal, why is ONLY "ONE" saying that he has no EQUAL, please explain. I'll be waiting for that answer.

then we will get to your next question.

see I want to take this one point at a time.

PCY
 

skypair

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, Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God". here the Lord Jesus is "Equal" with God.
Actually, that is talking about the Holy Ghost, the spiritual body/Person of the Son and Father. And next it says that "He [the Holy Ghost] made Himself of no reputation .. in the form of man." THAT was Jesus.

And "To whom will you liken me..." is the OT where there was no knowledge about the Holy Ghost and the Son. But when Christ was with us, He was the "express image" of God.

skypair
 

101G

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Actually, that is talking about the Holy Ghost, the spiritual body/Person of the Son and Father. And next it says that "He [the Holy Ghost] made Himself of no reputation .. in the form of man." THAT was Jesus.

And "To whom will you liken me..." is the OT where there was no knowledge about the Holy Ghost and the Son. But when Christ was with us, He was the "express image" of God.

skypair
well skypair, it is not. because the Form of God is Spirit. and the Lord Jesus is Spirit. see that's your mistake, the body is not a PERSON. and two you tried to side step the question by saying, "the Holy Ghost, the spiritual body/Person of the Son and Father". because if the Holy Ghost is Jesus then where is your third PERSON. I been saying that the Holy Ghost/Spirit is Jesus, and the Holy Ghost without flesh is the Father. so then there are only two. and the two is the same PERSON, here's why for Philippians 2:6 states being in the FORM of God, and God is a Spirit, ONE SPIRIT/PERSON. so I suggest you look up the word "Form", G3444 μορφή morphe (mor-fee') n. and please note it's a NOUN, and not a verb. as a NOUN it indicate a Person. and since the Holy Ghost is in bodily form as the Son, and the same Holy Ghost without Flesh is the Father, that's only one of, of, of, ANOTHER which is just what I been saying all along, the G243 allos of himself in flesh..... :cool:. now you have a dilemma a on your hands because the one you classify as a third person is the Same person in flesh as well as out of flesh. again I suggest you understand the word "Form" G3444 μορφή morphe (mor-fee').

once you research out the definition G3444 μορφή morphe (mor-fee'), then we can continue, oh by the way you never responded to the Act chapter 9 question as to who chose Saul/Paul. but we will get to it also. I be looking for your answer.

PCJ
 

101G

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to all who wants to join a discussion on the Godhead, I would like to propose a simple question Acts chapter 9 who chose Saul/Paul as his minister on the road to Damascus. we're talking about PERSON(S).

was it A. the one whom many calls Father, or B. the one whom many calls Son, or C. the one called the Holy Spirit?.

all answers welcome.

PCY
 

101G

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GINOLJC, to all. ***** Person vs Person(s) *****. the verses below have been a Central theme in the Trinity doctrine. But have Trinitarian really examine what these verses really say?. No, so let’s have a closer look at the central tenet of scripture that’s at the heart of this doctrine.

Scriptural Tenet #1. Genesis 1:26 & 27 "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth”. Verse 27 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them”.

First things first. In verse 26 God said “Let US make man in our image”, but in verse 27 God said, “HIS own image”. is this a contradiction?. no, but the US and the OUR sure sound like more that one. Yes, and I agree. So let’s examine this mystery. The burning question, “Why did God say “US” and "OUR" in one verse and then say “HIS” and "HE" in the very next verse”. the answer lay in the word “IMAGE”. Who’s Image? Our explanation is this, the “US” in Genesis 1:26 is the diversified share, or the state of the Spirit to come in which is “HIS” image to come, “FLESH”. Supportive scripture, Romans 5:14 "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come”.
So what is that image? let’s see what an Image is. According to Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries of the Greek and Hebrew Testaments

Image: H6754 צֶלֶם tselem (tseh'-lem) n-m.
1. a phantom.
2. (figuratively) illusion, resemblance.
3. (hence) a representative figure.
4. (especially) an idol.
[from an unused root meaning to shade]
KJV: image, vain shew.

Now, the dictionary definition of Image: a representation of the external form of a person or thing in art.
synonyms: likeness, resemblance; depiction, portrayal, representation; statue, statuette, sculpture, bust, effigy; painting, picture, portrait, drawing, sketch.

Looking at both definitions, Mickelson's says resemblance as do the dictionary. But we have a problem. An Image is the external form of a person. So the Question is, what is the external form of God?. see your problem now. Remember John 4:24a “God is a Spirit”. so that means that the Father, as well as the son, and the Holy Spirit must have the same external form, because many say the term God consist of all three. so, what is the external form of GOD? the bible clearly says that Man is the Image of God, and he's FLESH and BONES. Well sees like Romans 5:14 is really coming into play now. "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come”. unless someone can prove that God had flesh and bone and blood in Genesis 1:26, then it’s all null and void. but let's go on. because I said the Image was to come. So now, what is the figure to come,

Figure: G5179 τύπος tupos (tï '-pos) n.
1. a die (as struck).
2. (by implication) a stamp or scar.
3. (by analogy) a shape, i.e. a statue.
4. (figuratively) style or resemblance.
5. (specially) a sampler (“type”), i.e. a model (for imitation) or instance (for warning).
[from G5180]
KJV: en-(ex-)ample, fashion, figure, form, manner, pattern, print

Again there is our word “resemblance”. and the KJV can translate this word as FORM, and FORM is the visible shape or configuration of something. Now please tell us what is God’s visible shape in Genesis 1:26? I’ll be waiting for that answer.

in the meantime, I’ll go with this definition of God’s image. Colossians 1:15 "Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature”. I must go with bible. The image of God is Jesus the Christ, flesh and bones, supportive scripture, Luke 24:39 "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have". Well seems like Romans 5:14 is ringing the more TRUE, "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come” that's the resemblance and the One who came is Jesus the Christ. we know that he, JESUS is the SAVIOUR. If one say this is the second person of the Godhead now you have a problem. Isaiah 43:11 "I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour”. LORD here is all caps. that means the Spirit, the Father, the so called first person in somes doctrine, the creator of everything, the God of Genesis 1:26 and 27 the HIM to come of Romans 5:14b. "HIS" OWN IMAGE. let's read it again, Genesis 1:27 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them". the "HE" the "HIM" is the same one who Created man in "HIS" OWN IMAGE.

Conclusion” the US in Genesis 1:26 is the LORD, JESUS, the Holy Spirit without flesh. "HE" is the One to come in "HIS" OWN IMAGE. how did "HE" do it? by being "HIS" OWN OFFSPRING in FLESH and BONES. Yes, of himself, he said it best I AM Alpha/the First and Omega/the last. he's the First and the Last, the beginning and the end. yes, the SAME one Person. DIVERSITY, the Sharing of oneSELF. SHARING of PERSON vs SEPARATION of PERSON(S).

PCY
 

101G

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Person vs Person(s)
GINOLJC, to all. the Lord Jesus is the ONLY Spirit in the Godhead, (John 4:24a). and the Spirit is the HOLY SPIRIT/GHOST. not some third person, but the ONLY PERSON. and no he's not playing roles. he's his own "ARM" (Isaiah 63:5) to do his OWN "will". he's his OWN OFFSPRING of himself in flesh (revelation 22:16). which means he's the DIVERSITY of himself in human form, meaning his "OWN" IMAGE, (Genesis 1:26). this Diversity is what the Greeks calls the G243 allos of oneself (Philippians 2:6). or as the Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words say, a numerical difference and denotes another of the same sort, meaning the ANOTHER of oneself (John 14:16), that's the numerical difference of ONE, called the EQUAL SHARE again (Philippians 2:6-8). the exact same one, (numerically difference), manifested in flesh bone and blood. here one have the basic scripture showing this one person.

also, the Lord Jesus have no biological mother no biological father. nor any spiritual God or spirit father. he IS God all by himself.

the term Son, G5207, huios, concering the Spirit/God, have nothing to do with biology. only the Son of God is the flesh, the veil, the vesture, the cloke, the Garmet, or covering that he came or took part in. he was never a PARTAKER of Flesh and blood, (meaning he have only "ONE" Nature), not two. There is no such thing as some Hypostatic union supportive scripture, see Hebrews 2:14. he likewise took part in our humanity, that’s the reason why one should know the difference between “took part” and “partaker”. other words, the Lord Jesus put on flesh and blood, he possessed it, it was his working clothes, he had a dirty Job to do, clean up sin. That’s why in John 17:3 the Lord Jesus made the statement, "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent”. the conjunction “and” shows this numerical difference of the SAME “SORT” as the Vines dictionary states. the word sort mean SAME CLASS, SAME CATEGORY, as in the GOD Class,. the GOD CATEGORY. that's why he said in Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God". I wonder why he did say "beside US", as he did in Genesis 1:26?........ hummmmmmmmm. I wonder why?.

conclusion, only one person one Spirit, who is "ONE" God, and that's the Holy Spirit.

PCY