Co- Redemptrix

twinc said:

I do not demand but wait on the Lord who knows better than I do and assures us " before you call I will hear and before you ask I will answer" - twinc

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The gospel is a commandment, not optional. This commandment is life. The Lord hasn't given men the option of enforcement of the gospel, because receipt is by His election and by His promise, but that makes men no less accountable for refusing it and treating the blood of Christ as a common thing. Proud and evil men now serve as world rulers with the capability of plunging us into destruction with a simple set of orders. The term "mutual assured destruction" is an accurate description of thermonuclear warfare and I tell you assuredly that God is watching how men respond to His greatest gift. We don't demand from God . We simply ask according to His promise and trust in His faithfulness. So I urge you, don't disobey the Lord and receive His precious gift of life eternal for tomorrow may be too late.

mjrhealth said:

I have heard a lot of people call them selves christians, does not make it so, wheat and the tares, the tares will be removed at the harvest, going to be a scary time for some. Do you really think that a christian church will only have christians in it?? we had a church where a bunch of witches walked in once, and i have a sister who used to run a home group, once had a witch get up and tell her, that she is a witch and has to go pray against teh christians, dont be so blind.

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Hey, Snap...we did too! One even tried to put their hand on me and pray.
Very interesting meeting! lol

"ByGrace" said:

Hey, Snap...we did too! One even tried to put their hand on me and pray.
Very interesting meeting! lol

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Had a whole congregation fall down once at the hands of a false prophet, except me, and he was a false prophet, people love that stuff, its not from God.

mjrhealth said:

Had a whole congregation fall down once at the hands of a false prophet, except me, and he was a false prophet, people love that stuff, its not from God.

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I was never convinced about the last waves back a few decades now " The Toronto Blessing" thing that swept through. It never rang true...and the Holy part of "Holy Spirit" was missing.
To be kinder than I feel...I would say 'a mixture' at best...but I;m not sure even about that.
Having been in the Wave of the 70's ...( which was the last few years left from dregs of the Latter Rain wave ) having tasted and seen the real......the Toronto Blessing thing did not ring true.
But, I know God can do anything any time with any one who has a true seeking heart.

Stranger said:

Denial of your position is an intelligent response. You have nothing but what you want to make of it. There is nothing to indicate any sinlessness of Mary. She was affected by the original sin of Adam as everyone born of Adam, save Jesus Christ.

Stranger

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Like I said before - simple denial of a linguistic fact is not a sufficient response.
Mary is Kecharitomene - the ONLY person in ALL of Scripture to receive this title. She is an exception.

God has made MANY exceptions in Scripture - and she was one of them.

Stranger said:

Yes, lets keep this honest. I asked you if God existed before Mary and you said no, but the Son did. See post #475. I understand now why you always call everyone a liar. It is because you lie about everything. You said Mary was the mother of God. And she isn't. God existed long before mary was an afterthought. Are you lying agiain?

Stranger

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Your problem lies in the fact that you can't accept the Triune God.
God is a Trinity: ONE God in THREE Persons
God the Father.
God the Son.
God the Holy Spirit.

Mary didn't give birth to a "nature".
She gave birth to a Person - just like YOUR mom did.

BreadOfLife said:

God has made MANY exceptions in Scripture - and she was one of them.

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If Mary was born without sin than She could have gone to the cross, and we wouldnt of needed Jesus. Mary may have being given a special roll in all of this but she is no different to you or me, always need a reason to reduce Jesus to nothing. Our salvation is by Jesus not by Mary,,, nor anyone, anything else...

mjrhealth said:

If Mary was born without sin than She could have gone to the cross, and we wouldnt of needed Jesus. Mary may have being given a special roll in all of this but she is no different to you or me, always need a reason to reduce Jesus to nothing. Our salvation is by Jesus not by Mary,,, nor anyone, anything else...

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And therein lies your ignorance.

The Catholic Church does NOT teach - nor has it EVER taught that our salvation is from Mary.
The Catholic Church does NOT teach - nor has it EVER taught that Mary was the cause of her own sinlessness .
These are lies of your own invention - not Catholic teaching.

Mary called God her "Savior" (Luke 1:47) - which He was. However, instead of rescuing her from out of the mud of sin like He rescues US - He rescued her BEFORE she could fall into the mud in the first place. That's why she is "Kecharitomene" - and you're not.

Oh, by the way - Mary was given a special "role" . . .

BreadOfLife said:

Oh, by the way - Mary was given a special "role" . . .

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and so was David, King Saul, Jeremiah, Abraham, and so on goes the list, no more special than any one else, just an excuse to idolise her,

mjrhealth said:

and so was David, King Saul, Jeremiah, Abraham, and so on goes the list, no more special than any one else, just an excuse to idolise her,

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Pretty self-explanatory isn't it? Well, not to a catholic it seems.

We all have special roles

aspen said:

We all have special roles

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yeah, well, like what?

Dcopymope said:

yeah, well, like what?

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Loving God and others reveals our role - just like it did with Mary.

mjrhealth said:

and so was David, King Saul, Jeremiah, Abraham, and so on goes the list, no more special than any one else, just an excuse to idolise her,

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Dcopymope said:

Pretty self-explanatory isn't it? Well, not to a catholic it seems.

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And neither David nor King Saul nor Jeremiah nor Abraham nor anybody else was "Kecharitomene" - were they?

When you fight against the word of God - you're fighting a losing battle . . .

aspen said:

Loving God and others reveals our role - just like it did with Mary.

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Does it really?

BreadOfLife said:

When you fight against the word of God - you're fighting a losing battle . . .

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We know BOL thats why you are going no ware, you cant fight against God and win.

How shall I put it,

Exo 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Exo 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
Exo 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

but as He put it

1Sa_8:7 And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.

BreadOfLife said:

And neither David nor King Saul nor Jeremiah nor Abraham nor anybody else was "Kecharitomene" - were they?

When you fight against the word of God - you're fighting a losing battle . . .

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No one else in the Bible was favored with grace, or had unmerited favor in the eyes of God you say?

(Genesis 6:7-8) "And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. {8} But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD."


(Exodus 33:17) "And the LORD said unto Moses, I will do this thing also that thou hast spoken: for thou hast found grace in my sight, and I know thee by name."

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, well I guess others like Noah having "grace", or being "highly favored" as one may say also by default makes them exempt from the following verses.

(Ecclesiastes 7:20) "For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not."

(1 John 1:8-9) "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. {9} If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

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Or not, for by claiming Mary to be without sin, and inherently righteous, means that the truth of the real gospel is not within me.

(Luke 11:27-28) "¶ And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked. {28} But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it."

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One would think that Jesus would have used this opportunity to exalt Mary as something more than a woman, her being the "queen of heaven", and the "mother of all things", but instead he thought obedience to God was more important than being a woman who gave birth to the savior. But no, by all means folks, let the Catholics give adoration and praise to their "queen" , I'm sure God will have a word or two with them about it when the time comes, but no one is stopping you......................

@Dcopymope left out a few,

1Sa_2:26 And the child Samuel grew on, and was in favour both with the LORD, and also with men.

Exo_33:17 And the LORD said unto Moses, I will do this thing also that thou hast spoken: for thou hast found grace in my sight, and I know thee by name.

mjrhealth said:

@Dcopymope left out a few,

1Sa_2:26 And the child Samuel grew on, and was in favour both with the LORD, and also with men.

Exo_33:17 And the LORD said unto Moses, I will do this thing also that thou hast spoken: for thou hast found grace in my sight, and I know thee by name.

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Yep, Samuel was one of many who were "highly favored" in the sight of God. Mary was nothing special in this regard. She wasn't the first and she wasn't the last either. The catholic church has taken what it means to be favored by God to another 100 steps to mean sinless, and as far as Gods word is concerned, that is something only Jesus Christ can claim to be.

bbyrd009 said:

ok, but how are we defining it today is what seems to be the problem, i mean do you contend that Mary was sinless her whole life?

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I don't know if she was or not. Nor, does it really matter to me. She was definitely not your run of the mill "sinner". Zacharias and Elisabeth are accounted as righteous and blameless [cf Luke 1:6], I don't see Mary as also being so a stretch of the imagination. However, I don't see arguing over such as bearing any fruit, as witnessed.

Of course, I don't subscribe to OS, nor do I subscribe to single witness in the NT regarding the "young woman" from Isaiah.