Does anything at all exist without God?

Miss Hepburn · Jan 8, 2018

Just that...what could exist visible or invisible without God?
At its core since God is Light....am I incorrect to surmise within it / anyrhing there is some light?
The topic was kinda brought up by me elsewhere.
☺

bbyrd009 · Jan 9, 2018

i would argue that yes, something can exist apart from God, although it will not remain, and must pass away, or iow suffer entropy. Which, i would argue, is why Creation was fashioned, so that Free Will would have a place to manifest. Ego = "apart from God," in this argument. The world is built by the ego, and the world is passing away. "The earth" is a different concept, although it will eventually pass away also, imo this is a diff "passing away."

Miss Hepburn · Jan 9, 2018

bbyrd009 said:
i would argue that yes, something can exist apart from God ... The world is built by the ego...

Not many would say this place is built by the ego, bravo.
Why would you say or think anything ( at all...one atom of dust floating in the air...a thought...) could exist without God....me, seeing it from,
'That is impossible'.
And thanks for taking an interest in this new thread.

ScottA · Jan 9, 2018

Miss Hepburn said:
Just that...what could exist visible or invisible without God?
At its core since God is Light....am I incorrect to surmise within it / anyrhing there is some light?
The topic was kinda brought up by me elsewhere.
☺

You are correct. Not that it is limited to what is seen, but also includes what is unseen. All comes under God.

If it were even possible that this is not the case, it would have to be extra-godly... Which is a weird thought, and I guess we would just have to hear it from Him. That would make a great movie!

"My son, I am the Father of your people sense the dawn of time. Something new has come up of which I must tell you. My kingdom which has been all things to you in times past...is not alone..."

bbyrd009 · Jan 9, 2018

Miss Hepburn said:
Not many would say this place is built by the ego, bravo.
Why would you say or think anything ( at all...one atom of dust floating in the air...a thought...) could exist without God....me, seeing it from,
'That is impossible'.
And thanks for taking an interest in this new thread.

i would agree, but we are called to be like gods, which to me implies...ha, new creation, and imo our creation "apart" from God is evident? it is what won't remain, basically, the dross, or the chaff, but meanwhile their is wheat, and gold? Just has to be harvested, and refined, i guess

otherwise i am led into Sc...nihilism, and this is a denial of "change your mind" imo.
Predestination is a red herring that newbies are immediately subjected to, while 40 year vets have never heard of Nehushtan?
what's wrong with this pitcher lol

amadeus · Jan 9, 2018

bbyrd009 said:
... while 40 year vets have never heard of Nehushtan?
what's wrong with this pitcher lol

Some of those vets have likely found a comfortable easy chair to sit back in to "watch the world go by". More into delusion as a result methinks.

Dcopymope · Jan 9, 2018

How about the computer you're sitting in front of right now? Did computers exist from time immemorial?

FHII · Jan 9, 2018

All things were made by God and without God, nothing was mafe. John 1. Even evil was created by God (Isa 45:7).

Can they exist without God? Well thwy can continue to exist without God for a time. But they cannot have ever existed unless the Lord created them.

aspen · Jan 9, 2018

I tend to think God is actively creating our existence.

GodsGrace · Jan 9, 2018

FHII said:
All things were made by God and without God, nothing was mafe. John 1. Even evil was created by God (Isa 45:7).

Can they exist without God? Well thwy can continue to exist without God for a time. But they cannot have ever existed unless the Lord created them.

NOT to derail, but I feel we have to stop saying God created evil, or chaos which is what is said in Isaiah 45:7.

If God CREATED evil, then God has an evil aspect.
Does He?
Or is He all-good?

Please answer.

GodsGrace · Jan 9, 2018

aspen said:
I tend to think God is actively creating our existence.

First person I've ever heard say this besides myself.
AMEN!
God sustains ALL.
His "hands" hold up the universe.
Colossians 1:17

GodsGrace · Jan 9, 2018

Dcopymope said:
How about the computer you're sitting in front of right now? Did computers exist from time immemorial?

To us or to God??

Helen · Jan 9, 2018

GodsGrace said:
NOT to derail, but I feel we have to stop saying God created evil, or chaos which is what is said in Isaiah 45:7.

If God CREATED evil, then God has an evil aspect.
Does He?
Or is He all-good?

Please answer.

Did He create darkness or was it just 'there' from the beginning?
I think we can drive ourself over the edge and end up in a nut house in trying to plumb the depths. lol

Helen · Jan 9, 2018

Do I believe anything exists without God? No.
Even those who 'think' that they do, don't.
If we take the Devil and fallen angels ..He made them...they separated themselves from Him..in one way they 'exist' without Him right now...but with a flick of His finger they could be gone...at His command.
There is no life without Him.

Satanist still believe that Satan has a chance of winning...and I guess many christians who still believe that 98% of humanity will be lost and only 2% be saved...hmmmm maybe that are right after all.

Too much? Maybe. Just saying.

FHII · Jan 9, 2018

GodsGrace said:
If God CREATED evil, then God has an evil aspect.
Does He?
Or is He all-good?

Please answer

No. You answer.

I gave a verse that says God created evil. Furthermore I submit to you that someone planted the three of the knowledge of good and evil. You tell me who that was.

The burden of why God God did this will not be transferred to me to prove. God said he did it. Its up to you to prove he didn't. God said it and that's my proof!

It's up to you to prove God didn't create evil. It's not going to be done with circumstantial reasoning.

GodsGrace · Jan 9, 2018

FHII said:
No. You answer.

I gave a verse that says God created evil. Furthermore I submit to you that someone planted the three of the knowledge of good and evil. You tell me who that was.

The burden of why God God did this will not be transferred to me to prove. God said he did it. Its up to you to prove he didn't. God said it and that's my proof!

It's up to you to prove God didn't create evil. It's not going to be done with circumstantial reasoning.

I already have stated my position.
It's a theological position.

One could believe in dualism: There's a good God and a bad God.
One could believe in an evil God: One that purposefully created evil.
One could believe that God is all-good: Which is what I believe.

And which is supported by the bible we read:
1 John 4:8
God IS LOVE.
The very nature of God is love. If His NATURE is love, then there can be no evil in Him. John spent over three years with Jesus. I believe John over anyone who tells me God created evil.

Also
1 John 4:7
1 John 4:16
1 John 4:19
Romans 5:8
Ephesians 2:4
Galatians 2:20

1 John 3:1
and so many more...

Looks like you'll have to reconcile God being a loving God with Isaiah 45:7

GodsGrace · Jan 9, 2018

"ByGrace" said:
Did He create darkness or was it just 'there' from the beginning?
I think we can drive ourself over the edge and end up in a nut house in trying to plumb the depths. lol

I'm not going to any nuthouse.
It's easy enough to understand the O.T. if we can accept that it's inspired - written by men. God didn't sit down at a typewriter and write it.
THEN, it all makes sense...
God is all good.
He caused the darkness to become light.
In Him there is no darkness...
1 John 1:5

amadeus · Jan 9, 2018

Dcopymope said:
How about the computer you're sitting in front of right now? Did computers exist from time immemorial?

If you are addressing me, I've been retired from man's work since the year 2000. At 74 I have even had to stop most yard work, but when it comes to God I do not sit and watch the world go by. Outside the computer I preach and teach and witness as God opens the doors. How successful? That's not an answer that been given to me. Hopefully God is pleased. Who else matters?

As to computers, I remember while working for the Social Security Administration, we always had computers. Not me personally, but the agency installed their computer mainframe in Baltimore in 1962. When I started work for them in 1974, we were given pens, pencils and paper in an unlimited quantities, but no machines other than manual typewriters [replaced a little later by the electric ones]. I did a lot of math on my job, but in the beginning, we did not even have the old style adding machines available. I was really good at long division and algebra in those days. By the time I retired in 2000 I was taking all of my claims directly into the computer and most of the computations were done by the computer as well. Every year the agency was using newer and better computers doing more and more of the complex operations. The difference between the start and the finish for me was like night and day.

Helen · Jan 9, 2018

FHII said:
No. You answer.

I gave a verse that says God created evil. Furthermore I submit to you that someone planted the three of the knowledge of good and evil. You tell me who that was.

The burden of why God God did this will not be transferred to me to prove. God said he did it. Its up to you to prove he didn't. God said it and that's my proof!

It's up to you to prove God didn't create evil. It's not going to be done with circumstantial reasoning.

Agree , and He says .." Is there strife in the city and I have not done it."

Amos 3:6 "Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? Shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?"

I don't like it, but it is so.

Without dark background the diamonds do not shine as bright.
The darker it gets, the brighter the light!
Nothing is without purpose ...Satan is a tool in God's hand..just a tool ..for testing and refining to perfection.
Nothing is ever out of control...it's just us the see it that way.
God's Plan is still working.

GodsGrace · Jan 9, 2018

amadeus said:
If you are addressing me, I've been retired from man's work since the year 2000. At 74 I have even had to stop most yard work, but when it comes to God I do not sit and watch the world go by. Outside the computer I preach and teach and witness as God opens the doors. How successful? That's not an answer that been given to me. Hopefully God is pleased. Who else matters?

As to computers, I remember while working for the Social Security Administration, we always had computers. Not me personally, but the agency installed their computer mainframe in Baltimore in 1962. When I started work for them in 1974, we were given pens, pencils and paper in an unlimited quantities, but no machines other than manual typewriters [replaced a little later by the electric ones]. I did a lot of math on my job, but in the beginning, we did not even have the old style adding machines available. I was really good at long division and algebra in those days. By the time I retired in 2000 I was taking all of my claims directly into the computer and most of the computations were done by the computer as well. Every year the agency was using newer and better computers doing more and more of the complex operations. The difference between the start and the finish for me was like night and day.

Nice story.
Kind of like the difference between how the universe was before God said "Let there be light!".

Does anything at all exist without God?

Well-Known Member

Groper

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Groper

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads