The Universal (catholic) so-called "Church"

(BearingChristaHammer;36565)
(DrBubbaLove;36193)
Then why ask any one to pray for you?
Lol, you mock God by going to others who have died in the first death. There is a HUGE difference between asking someone whois alive to pray for you and someone who is dead. A HUGE difference don’t even try to get to dogmatic with it; it is simply not the same thing, there is no way to justify this. The Bible clearly states against such practices. It is not a matter of dogma for us, it is scriptural. As we say our Bible does in Macabees, with Paul and with our being told to pray for one another, we will just have to agree that you do not see it. For us it is absolutely biblical. I will agree you disagree it is in the Bible, disagree with our practice of it as Roman Catholics, and that you disagree with the earliest Christians that DID PRAY FOR THE DEAD long before there were "Roman" Catholics. That is fine. It is why I am Catholic and you are not.

(BearingChristaHammer;36571)
Wow talk about totally taking the word of God and wielding it to your advantage. You are so blatantly missing other key verses, not only in Exodus concerning graven images but in the entire OT and NT! It’s so obvious that I am not even going to take the time to mention them here as you obviously have chosen to pick and choose to your liking.As well don’t you think there might be a little bit of a difference between God allowing an exception in a single instance where He specifically calls for such in reflection to the symbolism He is portraying? This was God’s call to do so in the above situation you singularly bring to light. No where does He leave these matters up to men however. Everywhere else we are told specifically not to do so and it is so blatantly obvious that if you haven’t caught it so far, mentioning the scripture aint gonna help much.If Popes or bishops have received a command to do so it is extra-Biblical and the first time I will have known my God to contradict Himself. I’ve seen the Pope himself kiss the feet on more than one statue of Mary and bow before it. Don’t acquire such a loose term on what worship is. If making an image is bad enough, then why dance with the devil and kiss it. Why kneel before it and pray to the individual graven in front of you. This is wrong on all levels and in contradiction to God’s word, why seek to justify what He hates. This is wrong and if you don’t have the Holy Spirit to reveal this to you in your heart then you are walking astray my brother.God is a jealous God and he will share His glory with no man. He made sure, made darn certain of it that He not even show us His form except to Moses in fear that we would carve an image of Him. How much less and how much more detestable that we should do this with other men and women. Lol, next time you pray to saint Peter to pray for you think of how he would not even want you doing this. Try to see the light of what you are doing and that God is not happy with it.
Actually the person claiming God forbids the making of any likeness, of anything, for any reason is the person doing what you claim me to be. Claiming God would tell us not to do something and then make an exception would also be doing the same thing.If you were a hardcore Catholic, then am not sure where you went wrong, but the views you express would not be something I called hardcore Catholic.

(Mikey;36107)
I don't think SealedEternal is saying all people who call themselves catholic are not true Christians. Every denomination has true Christians, and false Christians. He is pointing out that the Catholic Church has gone wrong in many ways. (I don't mean to speak for you here Sealed). One of the most obvious I would say is the giant Obelisk in the Vatican Square. When I first saw this I was taken aback. http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/imagenes...atican18_09.jpgI would really like to know how Catholics justify this.Letsgofishing I see this would be a good question for your Ask a Catholic thread, but it's less crowded here.
OMW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!....ARE YOU KIDDING ME?????????????That is a Sun Dial!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is as Pagan as it gets. This just goes to show that it is a cult and those on the bottom don’t know what’s going on at the top!Don't believe me look here!It is also a sun dial, its shadows mark noon over the signs of the zodiac in the white marble disks in the paving of the square. The obelisk rests upon four couchant lions, each with two bodies whose tails intertwine.Wow that is about as pagan and Satanic as it gets. They even added the 12 signs of the Zodiac AFTER they brought it back from Egypt. Actually I'm probably way off my rocker; this is exactly what Christ would have us do. I'm sorry guys! If this doesn't raise some red flags I don't think much can.

Wow just so I don't get too Dogmatic in this DrBubbaLove I am not going to respond to your points because you have not responded to mine. You completely sidestep things I have brought up with flawed logic to the point of it not even being worthy of response. If you want to justify your piece of pagan pie then have at it.

1 Timothy 4:1-31 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; 3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.This is precisely the Catholic religion; they forbid to marry and they abstain from meats and observe holy days, another thing in contradiction to God's word.

(BearingChristaHammer;36576)
OMW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!....ARE YOU KIDDING ME?????????????That is a Sun Dial!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is as Pagan as it gets. This just goes to show that it is a cult and those on the bottom don’t know what’s going on at the top!Don't believe me look here!It is also a sun dial, its shadows mark noon over the signs of the zodiac in the white marble disks in the paving of the square. The obelisk rests upon four couchant lions, each with two bodies whose tails intertwine.Wow that is about as pagan and Satanic as it gets. They even added the 12 signs of the Zodiac AFTER they brought it back from Egypt. Actually I'm probably way off my rocker; this is exactly what Christ would have us do. I'm sorry guys! If this doesn't raise some red flags I don't think much can.
The object in question was not originally made with a cross on top (it was not even made in Italy), nor did the original work contain a piece of the original Cross, nor would Roman Catholics have need of a sundial in the 16th century (they had clocks by then). Call me stupid but why does moving it from where Peter was martyred to it's present location in the square named after Peter himself have to indicate anything MORE than that connection, and why would any sane individual suggest such an aritifact being moved after nearly 1500 years MUST have as a motive the worship of Roman gods that had ceased for over 1000 years before moving it. Also doubt that when Roman emperor Caligula originally had it brought from Egypt that he intended to honor Egyptian gods or a phallic symbol by that act, though he did seem to be about any thing goes.As far as meaning and relating anything from it's locaton and given it's being adorned by a Cross and an actual relic of a cross, would have to believe if it relates at all to paganism it would be representing Christ's triumph over paganism in the world. Which by the time it was moved to where it is now, was already evident to anyone alive and could hardly have been mistaken for a new god or phallic.

(BearingChristaHammer;36579)
Wow just so I don't get too Dogmatic in this DrBubbaLove I am not going to respond to your points because you have not responded to mine. You completely sidestep things I have brought up with flawed logic to the point of it not even being worthy of response. If you want to justify your piece of pagan pie then have at it.
Hey, feel free to throw rocks when you were asked to inquire. Like I said, the thread was "ask", if you had asked a question perhaps I would have something to respond to. As it is, it would be rude to stoop to your level so I elect to pass.

(DrBubbaLove;36594)
Hey, feel free to throw rocks when you were asked to inquire. Like I said, the thread was "ask", if you had asked a question perhaps I would have something to respond to. As it is, it would be rude to stoop to your level so I elect to pass.
But you did respond and directly to me; it’s just you didn't directly address any of the points that I made. I think also you may be confusing this thread with the other one. This one is not about asking questions. This is the thread started by SealedEternal. I’m sorry if I offended you.There is a lot wrong with the sun dial, the reason I know this is because I use to be into astrology. Undertakings of this kind are not of the Holy Spirit. This the type of activity is because of the connections between state and church. It is not an undertaking people with spiritual discernment would even hassle with. It is however very cognizant of secular or pagan practices.

(SealedEternal;35951)
The "Universal" (Catholic) so-called "church" was established by the Roman Emporers to unite the Roman empire in the fourth century by giving a "christian" veneer to the traditional pagan mystery religions. The Emperor Contantine took all of the pagan deities and renamed them as saints, and the pagan holy days gave Biblical titles. He was both a pagan and professing Christian his whole life, and was trying to create a unified hybrid of both. The pagan's never objected to changes in names, because their religions were always esoteric anyway, while the professing Christians agreed to continue in the pagan rituals because they now had been given a Christian veneer. Therefore a one world or "universal" so-called "church had been established which incorporated the two popular religions of the day, professing Christianity and paganism which was really Satanism.SealedEternal
(BearingChristaHammer;36564)
A lot of what was posted here is history and it is already widely accepted not that this makes it right, but have you even looked into this stuff? You can’t prove any history let alone Christ’s. But the formation of the catholic church was to congeal the pagan masses and this is Historically derived. This is generally accepted, oh wait, obviously not by those who would rather ignore what history presents?Christianity was getting too strong due to all the martyrs so more subversive tactics were used by combining Christianity with the pagans’ religions. This way “everyone” was a Christian. The pagans care little for the names of their deities as long as they can have a God head, Mother head (Mary) and a Son head (Jesus). The saints provided worship and transformation of their many other gods as well as just shifting pagan days over to “holy days”.
I keep seeing this sort of stuff but never any evidence, just generalised assertions. (BearingChristaHammer;36564)
A lot of what was posted here is history
Not real history!

(winsome;36740)
I keep seeing this sort of stuff but never any evidence, just generalised assertions. Not real history!
Exactly and I repeat all this pagan trash is is anti Christian propoganda

If you accept Christ, take him into your heart, understand that your a sinner, ask for forgiveness, and believe in God. I don't care what you call yourself, your a Christian. Churches may focus on some other things than others, and may have different doctrines in them. If you keep the foundation of Christ and God within you, then theres not much to worry about this is there.