Why the fall had to occur

bbyrd009 said:

"Nehushtan worshippers."

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What about it???

bbyrd009 said:

same group, iow. "The blind leading the blind" is a warning for those who seek God, not for those who do not

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Oh.....I see, well many Jews will be grafted onto the olive tree of faith, while many will be broken off, and thrown away for their lack of faith in Jesus Christ. The church, or the gentile believers may not replace the nation of Israel, but they will be replacing the many faithless Jews that are of it.

pia said:

@Dcopymope so you are one of those who believe that humans will be thrown into the burning lake with the fallen angels ?

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Well, that's what it says. Where I differ with people is the claim that ALL who are not of the bride of Christ get tossed in the fire simply by reason of them not being believers, which cannot be true in light of their still being gentile nations, and other kings thereof in the new heaven and earth. Its right there in front of their faces, plainly written out for them, and I don't understand how people can't see it. It obviously stems primarily from their misunderstanding of what it actually means to be saved by the blood of Christ.

(Revelation 20:15) "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

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pia said:

Nothing in Revelation is plainly in front of peoples faces....It is spiritually discerned, and things that make sense to our natural thinking , we need to be suspect of...always seek Him regardless of how much you think you know, and that goes for us all...

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It is easy for me to see, after years of putting much of my focus in Bible study on the last days. Here, I'll spell it out for you even further, and if its still not clicking within you, then go tap into that "holy spirit" you all claim to have so often and ask God if I am right or wrong. Receive revelation for yourself and stop asking me and other people questions about it, wasting your time and others. In new Jerusalem, there is a tree of life, this tree of life is plainly stated to be used "for the healing of the nations". I'm sure many people believe that this tree of life would also be for the saints, but that cannot be true, otherwise there would have been a tree of life for the saints during the millennial period, when all believers including "all those who had not worshiped the beast, his image, nor received his mark" are resurrected to rule with Christ for 1,000 years. That alone should show you that there will be many more in the new heaven and earth than just the bride of Christ. As the bride of Christ, you already conquered death through the blood of Jesus, receiving your glorified, incorruptible bodies, so the tree of life is not for us, because for us, Jesus Christ is the life.

(Revelation 22:2) "In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations."

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You see, its for the healing of the gentile nations, not for the bride of Jesus Christ, because it is by his stripes that we are healed, not by leaves on a tree. Do you now see what I'm saying? In what way are we healed Pia? Is it by leaves on a tree, or by the blood atonement of Jesus Christ?

pia said:

@Dcopymope Wow, that was an ear full, with a few not quite right statements, but never mind.......I do actually know that Jesus saves...Thank you

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Well, ok, then you have your answer. Like I said, the answer is right in front of you. The problem is that the real clear cut answer is never pointed out. It rubs me the wrong way, because it is by this misunderstanding of end times events that God is made out to be some inept despotic douche bag in the eyes of the world. It is why I cannot stand hell fire preaching, it needs to be flushed down the damn toilet where it belongs. The gentile nations are healed by the tree of life, while the saints are healed by the blood of Jesus, which disproves the generally held belief that only the bride gets into the new heaven and earth.

pastor marty said:

Is there any chance GOD may consider some things nunayobizness ? It happened/move on !***<m>***

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I would think that he wouldn't have given us the Bible in the first place if what happened and why it happened was none of our business. If you write something down, and claim it to be the absolute truth of a deity, then surely people will start asking questions, even believers.

pastor marty said:

***********OK !*****Dint Dan say somethin like:"This won't make anysense 2 U guys till yer supposed 2 no it ?? or the location of eden/wheres the Ark /(either 1) ;the recipe 4 manna(slimfast would luv that) Bible's a GPS;not a thesaurus/blueprint/or dictionary...*****<m>*******

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, good questions. But if someone asks me why he allowed Satan to deceive Adam and Eve, or why this or that verse says we were "made unto vanity" if the creation was "perfect in thy ways" and "very good", I don't think just telling them that its "none of our business" is how God would want us to respond to it. The typical answers given just don't quite add up. I can answer these questions another way. Let's assume for the sake of argument that Jesus was never born. We know that in the new earth, this current world will not be remembered, all of its tribulations and sins will pass away.

Do you think this would really matter, that if God just started over, all would suddenly be fine and dandy? Nope, because sin, the ever present disease would still rear its ugly head in the new earth just like it did in heaven within Satan, the anointed cherub. This tells us why Jesus Christ had to be sacrificed, because just as sin is the ever present disease, Jesus Christ is the ever present, ever lasting cure. THAT'S why he determined his only son to be slain from the foundations of the earth. It wasn't just to forgive you of your sins and save you from the lake of fire judgement, he was born to defeat sin itself, because it is by his sacrifice that God will "remember our sins no more", in this earth and the next. The stakes were much, MUCH higher than just your individual souls, and that's what people need to realize.

bbyrd009 said:

it might also stem from the fact that you cannot demonstrate a place of fire and torture in the afterlife from Scripture at all, except through scribes, later. The Rich Man seeking a drop of water for his tongue, as an analogy, is the closest we get.

(Revelation 20:15) "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

is being taken literally, when it is a vision of the Revelation of Christ, not even the same ballpark imo
the revelation all happens here, in seekers after Christ, does it not

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You never bothered actually reading revelation at all have you? Its no wonder why many Christians have a hard telling you what it means to be saved, they can't even tell you what you are saved from, they can only repeat the typical buzz word "I'm saved by the blood of Jesus".

(Matthew 10:27-28) "What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops. {28} And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

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(Revelation 20:5-6) "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. {6} Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

(Revelation 20:13-15) "And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. {14} And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. {15} And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

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Now what is the second death bbyrd009? Surely, you must know the reasons why Jesus Christ was sent right?