What is the "New Creature"?

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bbyrd009

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No one has ever been saved without receiving His righteousness by faith. To trust in our own righteousness is to spend eternity in hell. Our faith must be that Jesus Christ paid our sin debt on the cross, and delivered us from the power of darkness by His blood. To trust our own works of righteousness is futile, which is why I showed you God said we have no righteousness. It must be His righteousness imputed by faith. Study the scripture He has given us from His Word to learn the truth. Much of it has been given in this discussion.
this can be taken too far though imo. Belief in Jesus will not save you; following Christ will, imo. Works are needed, regardless of what your pastor tells you. Confession is work, at least in a sense; it certainly is not easy, anyway
 

bbyrd009

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bbyrd009

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Like I said before, if our walk was a factor, none of us could be saved.
your walk is all that matters, to you, and the fact that your works are judged is prima facie evidence of this. If your works did not matter, they would not be judged. You cannot reap without sowing, and sowing is work. It is your beliefs that are functionally irrelevant, even though this often strikes believers as heresy. i can develop this with Quotes if you like, but most of them should be apparent i guess; "don't dispute holidays, don't judge another's servant, judge by the fruit, a sin for you may not be a sin for me," on and on. i could give you 50 more prolly

the faith/works debate is a religious jerk-off, and occludes the fact that we are to "practice" forgiveness, which is work.
Don't get drawn into it, imo.

The fact that works done without faith will not avail anyone does not negate the fact that our works will be judged, right? Go from there imo. Iow recognize that you are doing work right now, work is what we do, unless we are resting or playing.

Everything else is work, including you replying to (or not replying to) this post
iow even not replying can be perceived as a certain work, be it "ignoring" or however it manifests, that will also have an appearance to others, who will describe it variously according to their ability to see, right?

Ergo you might perceive that i am satan, and seeking to lead ppl astray, while someone else might perceive a diff thing going on. But it is i who will have to answer for this post, and that will not be resting nor playing, either, not to get too far afield here
 
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Godssrvr

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The fact that works done without faith will not avail anyone does not negate the fact that our works will be judged, right? Go from there imo. Iow recognize that you are doing work right now, work is what we do, unless we are resting or playing.

Do you ever read scripture? Where are these "works" judged? Do you know? They will be judged at the Judgment Seat of Christ. Do you know who will be there? Only believers! No unbelievers will be there. The lost will be judged at the White Throne Judgment.
 

bbyrd009

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Do you ever read scripture? Where are these "works" judged? Do you know? They will be judged at the Judgment Seat of Christ. Do you know who will be there? Only believers! No unbelievers will be there. The lost will be judged at the White Throne Judgment.
ok ty
 

amadeus

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this can be taken too far though imo. Belief in Jesus will not save you; following Christ will, imo. Works are needed, regardless of what your pastor tells you. Confession is work, at least in a sense; it certainly is not easy, anyway
Indeed,
I would say that the truth of your words, "belief in Jesus will not save you", depends on what is meant by belief.

Jesus said:

"... I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?" John 11:25-26

What does Jesus mean when He says "believeth in me"? It is certainly more than believing that a man or angel or prophet or God existed about 2000 years ago and walked around Jerusalem teaching and healing.

James did clarify the meaning here:

"Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?" James 2:19-20
 
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amadeus

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Do you ever read scripture? Where are these "works" judged? Do you know? They will be judged at the Judgment Seat of Christ. Do you know who will be there? Only believers! No unbelievers will be there. The lost will be judged at the White Throne Judgment.
I would recommend you slow down before considering the judgment suggested by your question to our friend @bbyrd009 : "Do you ever read scripture?" Wait until you've been around for a while!

Give God the glory!
 
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Godssrvr

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I would recommend you slow down before considering the judgment suggested by your question to our friend @bbyrd009 : "Do you ever read scripture?" Wait until you've been around for a while!

Give God the glory!

I know the truth, and this quote below is not truth of scripture! I don't have to "be around awhile" to know the statement is a false gospel, doesn't matter who says it.

- bbyrd009 said.......
"Belief in Jesus will not save you; following Christ will, imo. Works are needed, regardless of what your pastor tells you. Confession is work, at least in a sense; it certainly is not easy, anyway"
 

amadeus

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I know the truth, and this quote below is not truth of scripture! I don't have to "be around awhile" to know the statement is a false gospel, doesn't matter who says it.

- bbyrd009 said.......
"Belief in Jesus will not save you; following Christ will, imo. Works are needed, regardless of what your pastor tells you. Confession is work, at least in a sense; it certainly is not easy, anyway"
You know some truth, but you like everyone else who has not yet completely overcome the world as Jesus did has what to me appears as a mixture of beliefs and truth. Some of the beliefs are likely in error and some of what is thought to be truth is not.

You should perhaps learn to use the Holy Ghost to discern what is truth rather than the logic of man applied to the Bible. The logic of men has spread out into many thousands of denominations all based on the Bible and yet they support some completely contradictory doctrines.

The most important thing is not knowledge of the Bible as we know it, but charity. Without charity, according to the writing of Paul, a man is nothing in spite of any knowledge he has.
 
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Godssrvr

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You know some truth, but you like everyone else who has not yet completely overcome the world as Jesus did has what to me appears as a mixture of beliefs and truth.

I quote scripture to back everything I say. We are talking about the simple gospel of salvation, which was simple enough for me to understand when I was 8 years old. I am now 57, and my understanding of the gospel of salvation is the same as it was when I was saved. If you doubt my understanding, check the scripture references I've used. It doesn't take great knowledge of the bible to understand how we are justified. That's the problem, the world tries to make it complicated, because it's simplicity is so offensive.

2 Corinthians 11:3-4
3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
 

tabletalk

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You know some truth, but you like everyone else who has not yet completely overcome the world as Jesus did has what to me appears as a mixture of beliefs and truth. Some of the beliefs are likely in error and some of what is thought to be truth is not.

You should perhaps learn to use the Holy Ghost to discern what is truth rather than the logic of man applied to the Bible. The logic of men has spread out into many thousands of denominations all based on the Bible and yet they support some completely contradictory doctrines.

The most important thing is not knowledge of the Bible as we know it, but charity. Without charity, according to the writing of Paul, a man is nothing in spite of any knowledge he has.

You said:'You should perhaps learn to use the Holy Ghost to discern what is truth rather than the logic of man applied to the Bible.'

Godssrvr was responding to the statement 'Belief in Jesus will not save you..'

The Holy Ghost has said (breathed-out) :
From John 6: 29. Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”
Acts 16:31
So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

Romans 10:9
...that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
 
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amadeus

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I quote scripture to back everything I say. We are talking about the simple gospel of salvation, which was simple enough for me to understand when I was 8 years old. I am now 57, and my understanding of the gospel of salvation is the same as it was when I was saved.
If the carnal age of a man is important, I just past my 74th birthday. I definitely met God for the first time in my memory when I was 6 years old. But consider what the Apostle Paul wrote about himself:

"Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ," Phil 3:4-8


Have you never learned that it is necessary to grow while we have time here?

Consider the words of the Baptist:

"He must increase, but I must decrease." John 3:30

And what is it that Jesus did as a man?

"And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him." Luke 2:40

If you doubt my understanding, check the scripture references I've used. It doesn't take great knowledge of the bible to understand how we are justified. That's the problem, the world tries to make it complicated, because it's simplicity is so offensive.

2 Corinthians 11:3-4
3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

A couple of pages back you wrote a very long explanation with many scriptures to support your beliefs. I answered it in detail. You only quoted one short phrase from me and replied with two short sentences.

I agree with you that salvation is simple as God understands it. When He gives that understanding to men, it is also simple for them, but for most people it is not simple. The problem with most people is that they learn too much in their minds without corresponding increase in their hearts.

From the time you received your salvation did you never grow toward God? Did you never change a belief?

You can also respond here with the same two short sentences if you like... I have copied and pasted them here for you:

My comments have been toward how we become this new creature, not how we walk in the flesh. We have to come to Christ in faith before there is any change in us by the Holy Spirit.

I know that I have missed the boat on my journey more than once. But God has continued to be merciful and to help me again so that I can continue to grow toward Him. The secret He showed me is not a secret. It is starting always again from the bottom and letting Him do the lifting of me if any is to occur.

Give God the glory!
 
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amadeus

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You said:'You should perhaps learn to use the Holy Ghost to discern what is truth rather than the logic of man applied to the Bible.'

Godssrvr was responding to the statement 'Belief in Jesus will not save you..'

The Holy Ghost has said (breathed-out) :
From John 6: 29. Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”
Acts 16:31
So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

Romans 10:9
...that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
Those verses don't cause a problem with what I believe. I disagree with some of what @Godssrvr was saying, but when I took the time to respond to him in detail in post #49, he effectively ignored most of my post. I won't press the issue.

Give God the glory!
 
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Helen

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With respect, that is the popular thought, but it isn't scripture truth. God says eternal life is freely given by His grace through faith in Christ, not by our feet matching our position. .....<snip>

Totally agree.
*One is for our salvation...*one is for our position in the kingdom.
Maybe I shouldn't have used the word "must match"...

I use those words when I am talking to overcomers. ( Rev 3)
I thought you could see the difference. ;)
 
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Triumph1300

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Equally important....What He did directly after and what He keeps doing till this day..
If there was no cross there would be nothing. I.o.w. He did it ALL on the cross.

Every Christian must understand, that every single problem that faces humanity, was addressed by Christ at the Cross. Col. 2:14-15
 

pia

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If there was no cross there would be nothing. I.o.w. He did it ALL on the cross.

Every Christian must understand, that every single problem that faces humanity, was addressed by Christ at the Cross. Col. 2:14-15
As with all other things God created, which became our world, our reality.....What Jesus did/does had/has a beginning a middle and and end....Also one was for the physical the other for the spiritual.....Thus one without the other would have left us all adrift still.. All that lead up to and culminated in the cross is most certainly a necessity, but without the rest of what He accomplished, it would have still been for nothing, thus....As I first said EQUALLY important....
 
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